OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#47

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It should ask to download the page. It very short letter saying because JW was arrested he's no longer SW's custodial guardian.

Thanks. I waited several times, and checked my download monitor in case it was a .pdf. Just never did get anything.

I suppose the 99% of us would have to know what we're looking for.
 
Sunshine, I should have worded my reply better. We have no problem so you don't need to apologize to me.

I haven't seen any proof that HR took JW to court. If that happened, then I think that it would change my thinking on many things. I have read on here that she did and I wish that someone would verify that. I have read on here that BW and possibly AW received Social Security disability benefits too. I have asked on here if anyone knows that as a fact but I haven't seen that answered.

I believe (but I hope that I am wrong) that if SW is in foster care and JW wants to see SW then they will be legally required to take her to visit him since he hasn't been found guilty yet. If he is found guilty and she wants to visit him then I don't know how it could be stopped either.

Hi Ohio Blues- here is a reference to AW & BW's listed income in their bankruptcy filing:

"Their only monthly income listed was $530 in Social Security payments and $389 in food stamps."

Pike County: Father accused in Rhoden massacre faced prior felonies
 
Thanks. I waited several times, and checked my download monitor in case it was a .pdf. Just never did get anything.

I suppose the 99% of us would have to know what we're looking for.


It is a .pdf. Suddenly discover that if I want to view, must open with adobe. On the
download menu: Open with Abode. it is second on list.
 
It is a .pdf. Suddenly discover that if I want to view, must open with adobe. On the
download menu: Open with Abode. it is second on list.

Fresca,
This isn’t related to the quoted post.
I may be wrong in remembering this or its reference...
A while back you mentioned City of Montgomery I believe in reference to FW and possibly business dealings.
I wanted to try to follow up. Can you say something more?
I couldn’t find anything.
 
It is a .pdf. Suddenly discover that if I want to view, must open with adobe. On the
download menu: Open with Abode. it is second on list.

I ditched Adobe a long time ago, but it still should have opened with the application I use, however it wasn't working when I tried.

Oh well, 100% of us should know S isn't in J's custody.
 
Fresca,
This isn’t related to the quoted post.
I may be wrong in remembering this or its reference...
A while back you mentioned City of Montgomery I believe in reference to FW and possibly business dealings.
I wanted to try to follow up. Can you say something more?
I couldn’t find anything.

You might be interested in a person that fits the description being the former
mayor of Norwood, Ohio
 
Oh my God! Well that sheds some light does it not? That just gave me the chills reading it. It makes me wonder greatly now if RN did know ahead of time what was planned. AJMO

I've always suspected she knew what was up or at least what was possible, considering the docs she forged.

Thanks for the tip Loomis.
 
Clergy would make sense plus clergy couldn't be forced to testify either even if it was any (unknown to us) clergy person.

FW has her own church and I can't figure out if they attended her church, the Minford Church, unknown church or no church. IDK. I have had a hard time figuring out if/where they attended church especially when JW is claiming his religion doesn't allow Halloween etc. It would seem that he either attended a church (at some point) or was not telling the truth/trying to mislead to throw suspicion away from him.

Did the W4 attend that Minford Church or were they just friends because of the kids growing up together?

It appeared to me that GW4 was the one that was closest to the son.

jmo. moo.

I have the same impression - I think that son (CC) officiated at GW4's marriage - not sure if he the wedding was in OH or AK. Also thought they were acquainted before FW moved that church group from town to her property (circa 2006). The W4 did attend the Minford church, at least prior to 2003, according to that pastor (KC) who came to Alaska then to take over the church his father founded in Seward (father died in 2003).

Most of the men in the founding pastor's family, sons, son-in-law, grandsons are all preachers - between that and FW's influence, I'm not sure why GW4 and JW aren't preachers, too (JMO-it's a pretty good money-making gig-JMO). That founding pastor was also closely associated with my acquaintance, who's raised his son to be a preacher; his daughters, as I said, were raised to be broodmares JMO.

In MOO, JW and GW4 spout religious beliefs for appearances or because the families demand it of them. My impression is the W4 attended the Kenai church but weren't ensconced with any IB sect like my acquaintance's family is - and from discussions with him, the sect members seem to be a bit closed-mouth or standoffish about them. JMO

I agree - this religious angle doesn't make much sense - yet.
 
Is it possible that the forged papers were not just about Hannah being killed and Jake getting custody? Since both Wagner sons were also named, maybe these papers were also in case they were killed in the commission of the Rhoden murders. I'm betting that AW is the first in line for getting both kids. Obsession of the custody of the kids and all.
 
RSBM
Looking it up, it appears these documents only apply when both parents are dead: otherwise the surviving parent is automatically the guardian. How is a Guardian Appointed for a Child When a Parent Dies?

So they certainly were thinking ahead, to what would happen if JW died too, to presumably ensure the Wagner's would still be guardians.

I notice the document requires two witnesses, I suppose she just forged those as well.

I wonder how/when police found these, they're very incriminating, tho circumstantial.

BBM
This was my thought, also....
 
One poster recently asked about RJN's charges and how the other Ws could be charged with forgery. Please see her Discovery below. But most importantly, Google the exact name of the document they created and forged: Declaration of Appointment of Guardian for my Children in the Event of my Death or Incapacity.

Newcomb Discovery

Thanks Loomis.
This is a critical piece of evidence going to motive and intent.
The way I read the RN indictment, seems to me JW and GW4 are probably witnesses. But the purpose of witness is to witness a signature.
So who would have been the person to sign this document, was it HR. or was she too young to do that. Did Wagners intend to try to force CRsr and/or DR to sign this document?
I wonder where this document was found.
Did W’s keep document to have it to present to the courts after the murders? That doesn’t make sense.
Really, what could have been the purpose of this document. Who was it supposed to fool?
The Wagners outsmarted themselves with this fake document.
Edit to add:
In reading all the comments about ‘Death of both parents’ I wonder if the Wagner who came up with this scheme fully understood what the document did or did not accomplish. Creepy.
 
Last edited:
One poster recently asked about RJN's charges and how the other Ws could be charged with forgery. Please see her Discovery below. But most importantly, Google the exact name of the document they created and forged: Declaration of Appointment of Guardian for my Children in the Event of my Death or Incapacity.

Newcomb Discovery

BBM
Declaration of Appointment of Guardian for my Children in the Event of my Death or Incapacity.

Why would Jake need granny to forge Hannah's name on a document like this if he is the bio father of SW? I never had any document like this when my son was a minor. I assumed if I died hubby would raise him. So why would Jake need one?

I think this forged document is a major piece of the 1000 piece puzzle DeWine talked about.

JMO
 
Hi Ohio Blues- here is a reference to AW & BW's listed income in their bankruptcy filing:

"Their only monthly income listed was $530 in Social Security payments and $389 in food stamps."

Pike County: Father accused in Rhoden massacre faced prior felonies
How did the Wagners own all that stuff, new home, four wheelers, new trucks and travel money to Alaska 3 times, how did they do it on that little bit of income to spread out over 4 people, (Can You Posters See Who The Criminals Is)
 
BBM
Declaration of Appointment of Guardian for my Children in the Event of my Death or Incapacity.

Why would Jake need granny to forge Hannah's name on a document like this if he is the bio father of SW? I never had any document like this when my son was a minor. I assumed if I died hubby would raise him. So why would Jake need one?

I think this forged document is a major piece of the 1000 piece puzzle DeWine talked about.

JMO

I think you are right that this is a major piece of the puzzle. JW would not need this document if he was the biological father, IMO. This document makes me wonder if the original plan was to kill just HR.

My understanding is he didn't end up using this document to get custody of SW. I think with the recent murders of most of HR's family members, it was too risky to use it, and he really didn't need to as anyone who could have opposed him in court was dead.

JMO
 
BBM
Declaration of Appointment of Guardian for my Children in the Event of my Death or Incapacity.

Why would Jake need granny to forge Hannah's name on a document like this if he is the bio father of SW? I never had any document like this when my son was a minor. I assumed if I died hubby would raise him. So why would Jake need one?

I think this forged document is a major piece of the 1000 piece puzzle DeWine talked about.

JMO

I see your point. Maybe the Wagners were using this “document” to scare or threaten HR or CRsr and DR
Even that makes little sense.
 
I think you are right that this is a major piece of the puzzle. JW would not need this document if he was the biological father, IMO. This document makes me wonder if the original plan was to kill just HR.

My understanding is he didn't end up using this document to get custody of SW. I think with the recent murders of most of HR's family members, it was too risky to use it, and he really didn't need to as anyone who could have opposed him in court was dead.

JMO
I think the only reason Jake would have needed this document is if he was not the bio father. If he was not the bio and Hannah died (by any means) he would have needed this document in case SW's real dad stepped in and tried to take custody of her.

For instance, when my son was a minor I never had any document like this since if I died (hangnail or any other means) hubby who is my son's bio father would have had no reason to believe or even think that anyone would have stepped in to try to get custody of him.

I could see if a divorced person might have this document naming their parents as guardian if hubby/wife was abusive to the children.

But I see no reason Jake should have this document to get custody of a child who was his own.

JMO
 
As I mentioned above, a guardianship applies when both parents are deceased.

"A guardian may be appointed for a child who is under 18 years old because the parents are deceased or because the parents are unable or unsuitable to care for the child."
Guardianship for a Child Fact Sheet

I think these documents were prepared in case JW and/or GW4 were killed during the massacre, some of the R's had guns.

Since that didn't happen, the documents were never used.

I wonder whether there was a fourth document forged, for the mother of GW4s child, but it hasn't been included in the charges to protect her privacy.
 
I think Hannah did sign up for public support. It is the law that everyone must have health insurance. Hannah was a single mother who still in high school (her graduation was in May 2016) and she had one small child with another on the way. She had to have medical insurance for SW and the unborn child. While Dana may have had health insurance at her work for Hannah and Junior I don't think any work policy would have allowed her to put her grandchild on it. Hannah worked part time at the nursing home with her mom so I don't think as a part timer that her work had to offer her a health policy. So therefore she would have went through the market place or signed up for Medicaid at her local public assistance office. If she signed up at the public assistance office then she would have certainly been eligible for food assistance since she could not have been making much money at a part time low paying job. I have been told that when you sign up for assistance they want the name of the father. I don't know how it is in Ohio but I have been told that when a woman signs up for assistance a DNA test is ordered for whoever she names as the father automatically.

Whew... I had to call a lot of people this morning to find that out including a very (now) confused woman at the local public welfare office who mistakenly thought I was the one who was pregnant with a small child and wanted hubby's name to slam him with a DNA test and some child support. The phone call almost came to an end when I told her my age. lol

JMO
 
As I mentioned above, a guardianship applies when both parents are deceased.

"A guardian may be appointed for a child who is under 18 years old because the parents are deceased or because the parents are unable or unsuitable to care for the child."
Guardianship for a Child Fact Sheet

I think these documents were prepared in case JW and/or GW4 were killed during the massacre, some of the R's had guns.

Since that didn't happen, the documents were never used.

I wonder whether there was a fourth document forged, for the mother of GW4s child, but it hasn't been included in the charges to protect her privacy.
I think they were forged in case SW's real father stepped in and tried to get custody of her when Hannah died.

JMO
 
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