Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #15 *ARREST*

[bos]

I’m happy to look at things from all angles. I was surprised when the boyfriend was mentioned after Libby was found, because normally the press tell nearly every aspect of a missing persons life. I found that strange that he’d never been mentioned.

So are you saying that pawel also had a secret phone? As surely the police would’ve been able to access his normal phone records?

I knew about the boyfriend and didn’t find it strange that the Squires would want to protect him from any press intrusion.

 

[Catsarse]

I knew about the boyfriend and didn’t find it strange that the Squires would want to protect him from any press intrusion.

I’d never read about him at all. I agree entirely, I don’t find it strange that the families would want to protect him and his privacy.

I did find it strange he was never mentioned in the press. Are the families and/or the police able to request this and the press respect it? Because I’ve read such intrusive things before in other investigations, I’m always surprised when it seems the right things have been adhered to!

Thanks in advance

 

[JosieJo]

I'm going to have to agree to disagree on this one ..as imo we have no evidence in the public domain that leads us to think she knew him

 

[mark_us]

So when did Libby allegedly see PR as she studied and was known not to go out much (said by close friends) and he worked and had a family?

And how do you know all the cctv images are poor? There's been 1 of a vehicle released in the press, we don't know what the police have.

It can't be argued that some things aren't evidence-based and not others.

You are discrediting plausible answers to every blank question asked here because you believe a student nor a full time working person has any leisure time whatsoever? Really?

If the cctv images were much clearer and they had more they would have more to charge him with and he would have less of a defense. I can answer pretty much every single question.

Has anyone presented an alternative that also fills in all the blanks?

 

[bos]

I’d never read about him at all. I agree entirely, I don’t find it strange that the families would want to protect him and his privacy.

I did find it strange he was never mentioned in the press. Are the families and/or the police able to request this and the press respect it? Because I’ve read such intrusive things before in other investigations, I’m always surprised when it seems the right things have been adhered to!

Thanks in advance

I think sometimes the press do respect victim privacy if it is clear that they weren’t involved.

 

[bos]

I think you may have missed a couple of my earlier questions @mark_us

Haworth Street is also residential where they could have been seen so why set up a meeting there when Beresford would have been pretty anonymous and nearer to Libby’s house?

Why does PR wait in Haworth until greybeard has left the scene?

 

[Plod]

Now here you are discrediting somebody because they are a new member. I am not, despite what this account says.

-The points you argue have been theorised and discredited many times.

Please show me the posts which made the same argument as I have and how they were discredited.

Things such as this: plausible reason is many students don’t when they know they will be drunk on a night out and don’t want to lose or damage it.

Are not true. All drunk people still have a phone with them. Clubs are full of drunk girls on their phones. Her friends had their phones! Libby was the odd one out.

Whatever I say you would not know either way if I were telling the truth. Just ask yourself if it all adds up.

No sorry not trying to discredit you, just wondered if you’d had a chance to read what people had said about things you’ve mentioned.

 

[Joolz1975]

Deleted- can't be bothered.

 

[Harmony 2]

The thread has been cleaned up. Theories have to be based on information in mainstream media or from law enforcement. Members with inside information must become verified to be able to post as an insider. We have no verified insiders in this case.

 

[Woollybear]

Apologies for being late on parade again. Real life can be such a pest, sometimes.

With regard to Libby's return home & inability to get into her flat ... I am pretty sure (though I could always have dreamed it) that one of the 4,897 posts on this thread says that police found her key in a flower bed in her garden a couple of days afterwards.

If that's correct, then that would fit a scenario where she comes home totally blitzed, gets the key out, tries to get it in the lock, drops it, can't find it in the dark, tries alternative ways of getting in, fails, then staggers back into the street cursing, before eventually deciding to try and either get back to the Welly or at least sit on the bench & re-group while considering her options & sobering up a bit.

It's a common enough scenario - I've done it myself when I was young and stupid, including one memorable occasion when (after a night on the Sambucca, a liqueur which has never passed my lips since that very day) I did at least manage to get into the house porch, though that meant I had to sleep with my head next to the cat's litter tray all night.

 

[Woollybear]

I'm putting these ideas in separate threads because I'm trying to prevent cross-threading

The other thing I noticed last time I was on here, when the police issued that rather bland, noncommittal statement, was the timeline in the HDM article which was linked, showing just how soon after the disappearance the police frogmen were all over Barmston Drain, and the pond on the playing field, and the River Hull at that point. If it's true that the body sinks first, and only rises to the surface and floats/drifts once decomposition has set in, and given the freezing temperatures at the time, if there was a body in situ in any of those locations, surely the divers would have found it? Which is now tending to make me wonder once again about the feasibility of the body being dumped direct into the Humber.

 

[Newthoughts]

You are discrediting plausible answers to every blank question asked here because you believe a student nor a full time working person has any leisure time whatsoever? Really?

If the cctv images were much clearer and they had more they would have more to charge him with and he would have less of a defense. I can answer pretty much every single question.

Has anyone presented an alternative that also fills in all the blanks?

Students have leisure time. They spend it with their friends who are usually fellow students. In an environment with other students. Or with their boyfriend's or visiting family. Anything else would be noticed and deemed odd.

Working people have leisure time also. They don't tend to spend it with students. And in PRs case, appear to spend it nicking dildos and exposing himself.

I can't see any common ground. I can't see any way she'd be attracted to him in any way. I can't see him making any efforts to have a consensual affair. If his wife was scared of him I can't see him bothering what she was told.

In short I'd guess his alleged behavior would make him seem quite creepy. It's hard to hide creepiness from women.

 

[Cherwell]

With regard to Libby's return home & inability to get into her flat ... I am pretty sure (though I could always have dreamed it) that one of the 4,897 posts on this thread says that police found her key in a flower bed in her garden a couple of days afterwards.

I don't think there was a reliable source for this.

If that's correct, then that would fit a scenario where she comes home totally blitzed, gets the key out, tries to get it in the lock, drops it, can't find it in the dark, tries alternative ways of getting in, fails, then staggers back into the street cursing, before eventually deciding to try and either get back to the Welly or at least sit on the bench & re-group while considering her options & sobering up a bit.

Her return home was witnessed by the neighbours. They don't mention anything like this, only that she fell, was helped up by the taxi driver (who is also obviously a witness), and then went off up the road. No indication that she went anywhere near her front door.

 

[bos]

I'm putting these ideas in separate threads because I'm trying to prevent cross-threading

The other thing I noticed last time I was on here, when the police issued that rather bland, noncommittal statement, was the timeline in the HDM article which was linked, showing just how soon after the disappearance the police frogmen were all over Barmston Drain, and the pond on the playing field, and the River Hull at that point. If it's true that the body sinks first, and only rises to the surface and floats/drifts once decomposition has set in, and given the freezing temperatures at the time, if there was a body in situ in any of those locations, surely the divers would have found it? Which is now tending to make me wonder once again about the feasibility of the body being dumped direct into the Humber.

I believe bodies can still be swept along the bottom by the current i.e bodies don’t remain where they entered the river until gases cause flotation. It is the reason that bodies retrieved from water tend to have scraped foreheads/noses.

 

[Miss_French]

Apologies for being late on parade again. Real life can be such a pest, sometimes.

With regard to Libby's return home & inability to get into her flat ... I am pretty sure (though I could always have dreamed it) that one of the 4,897 posts on this thread says that police found her key in a flower bed in her garden a couple of days afterwards.

If that's correct, then that would fit a scenario where she comes home totally blitzed, gets the key out, tries to get it in the lock, drops it, can't find it in the dark, tries alternative ways of getting in, fails, then staggers back into the street cursing, before eventually deciding to try and either get back to the Welly or at least sit on the bench & re-group while considering her options & sobering up a bit.

It's a common enough scenario - I've done it myself when I was young and stupid, including one memorable occasion when (after a night on the Sambucca, a liqueur which has never passed my lips since that very day) I did at least manage to get into the house porch, though that meant I had to sleep with my head next to the cat's litter tray all night.

There was some discussion on here about where Libby's phone could have been found when the police said it was recovered at the house; some wondered if it was in the garden rather than in her room, so maybe that's what you are thinking of?

As Cherwell says, witnesses have not put Libby approaching the house.

 

[Woollybear]

I believe bodies can still be swept along the bottom by the current i.e bodies don’t remain where they entered the river until gases cause flotation. It is the reason that bodies retrieved from water tend to have scraped foreheads/noses.

I've just had another look at the timeline pictures and they seem to have been all over the shop (marine police unit) from 3rd February onwards for at least a week thereafter. It is perfectly possible that she was in the river and they missed her, I suppose, but what stood out for me in the HDM pictures was the sheer weight of numbers and the fact they were doing things like walking in line abreast through the pond to search it.

 

[Woollybear]

I don't think there was a reliable source for this.


Her return home was witnessed by the neighbours. They don't mention anything like this, only that she fell, was helped up by the taxi driver (who is also obviously a witness), and then went off up the road. No indication that she went anywhere near her front door.

Right. I see. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, of course, and if it did, it would explain a few things, but if the report of it being in the garden was wrong (or I imagined it) then only the police know where her own flat key was found and they aren't telling, as you would expect. Ho hum.

 

[Newthoughts]

I've just had another look at the timeline pictures and they seem to have been all over the shop (marine police unit) from 3rd February onwards for at least a week thereafter. It is perfectly possible that she was in the river and they missed her, I suppose, but what stood out for me in the HDM pictures was the sheer weight of numbers and the fact they were doing things like walking in line abreast through the pond to search it.

That is why I wondered if there was someone else involved. They moved to the park area very quickly. I don't know if that was CCTV or dogs. They searched diligently in those areas but never looked like they were looking for a body. The body searches all seemed to be in water. They seemed thorough.

Given all the isolated land areas she could have been I thought that was odd.

 

[Newthoughts]

Right. I see. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, of course, and if it did, it would explain a few things, but if the report of it being in the garden was wrong (or I imagined it) then only the police know where her own flat key was found and they aren't telling, as you would expect. Ho hum.

Her parents hinted via MSM that she didn't have her key and went off to find / meet friends.

I get my keys out and ready before I get to my front door if I'm in a taxi or having a lift. I get them out when I get off a bus before walking home. I get them out and ready before getting out of my car. So it's feasible that she'd realised she didn't have them before she got out of the taxi.

Remember she was very drunk. Drunk people do not make sensible decisions like going back to the club or factoring in that your friends won't be back for ages or that usual buses might not be running. I think she simply went to a lit area with shops to wait for her friends to arrive on a bus that wasn't actually running. Or was headed to the uni. Just my opinion but a simple explanation

 

[Woollybear]

Sadly, it is starting to look as if there isn't going to be the breakthrough that those who wanted justice for this poor young girl were hoping for. It seems to me that the longer it goes on, the less likelihood there is of a conviction. Unless, of course, the police and CPS have kept a stash of stuff out of the public domain and are waiting to clobber the suspect with it when charges are finally laid.

As I said in a previous thread, in one sense they have no need to hurry - except that continuing to delay charges gives the impression that they may not have enough evidence, and also creates an information vacuum to be filled with conspiracy theories. They have the suspect under lock and key on unrelated matters and I guess the acid test will be in July if he is acquitted of those or is convicted but does not get a custodial sentence. Rather than let him loose, the police and CPS may be forced to arrest and charge him at that point.

Even then, though, would a charge be murder or manslaughter. If I find myself attracted to someone to the point of physical desire, make an effort to get to know her, and ask her out and she rebuffs my advances and I go away and brood on it and brood on it and decide that if I can't have her then nobody will, and I go out one dark night and lie in wait for her, specifically, waylay her and kill her deliberately and with forethought, then that's murder.

Similarly, if I am driven by the sort of proclivities that beset, say, Jack the Ripper and I have a mission, a compulsion, to murder young girls, and I go out at night to areas where they may be found with the deliberate intent of killing one or more, then that again is murder.

Clearly neither of the above scenarios its this case.

So we have two people in a car, one vulnerable and the other looking to take advantage, and the situation develops via the suspect perhaps trying to initiate some sort of sexual contact, which then gets out of hand, develops into a struggle, maybe temper flares, and he ends up with a dead victim. I note that several people have pointed out how long manual strangulation can take, but this is not the only way in which such a dreadful outcome could happen. There are several martial arts blows that reputedly can kill outright. Also things such as "burking" and "yoking".

In that scenario presumably the lack of premeditation means that the only realistic prospect of conviction is manslaughter. But in this case, unless they are sitting on something they aren't releasing, it looks like they don't have anything evidentially connecting him to her after the playing fields CCTV.

Finally, I don't know if anyone's said this recently but I am sure that everyone here is motivated by wanting to get justice for Libby Squire, even though some of the posts (eg like this one of mine here) might be hard to take or seem weird/prurient to the first glance...