Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #97

[Krwiley60]

Maybe one was tied to a tree.

Or zip tied at the hands and feet.

 

[MassGuy]

It is going cold is what motivated it. They are trying to form new leads. Means the other leads have stalled.

You don’t know that. We don’t know that.

You don’t throw out a sketch, all but embarrass yourself, and change the course of an investigation, based on a whim.

It’s not the kind of thing you do if you have nothing. It’s actually a signal that the opposite is true.

That they know something.

 

[gitana1]

Having lived in a little town in Wisconsin after growing up in Pasadena and Seattle, I can see this very well. There a basically 2 kinds of people as far as LE is concerned. The “good”ones who have jobs and go to church and attend the pancake breakfast, and the ones who live out on the outskirts of town, have five cars in their front yard, and are probably addicted to something. We know there are so many more facets, but this is basically how small towns are divided up. They have been looking for the crazy Punisher hoodie dudes instead of the ones who show up to every parade to help hand out hot chocolate to the kids. That’s the hiding in plain state part. Someone who is handing out the bracelets at the vigil instead of the guy drinking Coors at the bowling alley .

Yes but it's not the small town PD who is investigating this case. It's several agencies. And they've made clear they're not just looking at local creeps. They're the ones who said he's likely hiding in plain sight and could be anyone.

 

[TTF14]

It is going cold is what motivated it. They are trying to form new leads. Means the other leads have stalled.

Then why didn't they just do it in February at the anniversary press conference?

 

[gitana1]

Rader was organized, and even then, things didn’t always according to plan.

He made some huge mistakes in his first murders, ones that he rectified going forward.

I don’t think this guy is of the organized variety, but he definitely has fantasies.

But maybe if not caught he could become more organized as well.

 

[Betty P]

Snipped and bolded.

Wow - this jumps out at me as entirely possible. I have been thinking BG is a planner - that he was able to carry of what seems like a first murder so quickly in the open without getting caught because he played it over and over in his mind. But there was a missing part in my theory....and I think you hit on it. Perhaps part of BG's plan wasn't just planning the crime, but selecting the targets, stalking them....and knowing precisely the time and place to strike.

IDK of course, but your post makes a lot of sense to me.

jmo

The retired FBI profiler, Jim Clemente, in the Best Case Worst Case podcast mentioned a few pages back said he did think BG had picked this location, had visited it before and planned out the attack. He mentioned that BG had scouted out what they call a "lair", a place where they could take their victims and have privacy and control over them to commit the attack and murder. They said he probably had a spot figured out where he could intercept victims without being easily seen by others. IIRC, he thought the choice of victims was random. The guy just went to his pre-chosen spot on the trail and chose the victims who fit his profile.

https://wondery.com/shows/best-case-worst-case/

 

[mtnlites]

You don’t know that. We don’t know that.

You don’t throw out a sketch, all but embarrass yourself, and change the course of an investigation, based on a whim.

It’s not the kind of thing you do if you have nothing. It’s actually a signal that the opposite is true.

That they know something.

It seems to me that if their actions were based on the fact that the case was going cold, they'd have done this on the 2-year anniversary. That would've been good publicity. But they didn't. They did the PC when they did it, and gave the public a long notice, for a specific reason.

 

[jkloc420]

That’s my point—that working the DNA back to a ‘potential missing person’ can be a lot easier than working it back to a ‘potential murderer.’ Look at the stats on how many potential suspects you can have if all you have are third or fourth cousin matches.

You don’t know that. We don’t know that.

You don’t throw out a sketch, all but embarrass yourself, and change the course of an investigation, based on a whim.

It’s not the kind of thing you do if you have nothing. It’s actually a signal that the opposite is true.

That they know something.

I am sure they know a lot, obviously they know more then we do. They have been investigated it for two years. I dont think they have dna, i thought that on day one. I am not even sure this is even a sexual crime. I dont think where they found the bodies is the crime scene either

 

[gitana1]

So I've been thinking about the "new" sketch.

I would be absolutely horrible at accurately describing someone for a sketch. I'm totally certain the facial features would be completely off - unless there was something really distinctive (crooked nose, striking eyes, birthmark, scar...) - but I think I would stand a better chance of reasonably describing the hair. Especially if it was somewhat unusual.

IMO, most men I come across have short, straight (or possibly wavy) hair. Anything other than that - a shaved head, long hair or thick, curly hair - would stand out to me. And I am nearly 100% certain I would be able to pick out a wig, even from a distance. I have never, EVER seen a man with a wig (or a hairpiece) that looked totally convincing. And I would *absolutely* mention that detail to the sketch artist.

If the witness had no recollection of BG's hair (or really just wasn't sure) I would find it strange for the artist to include a full head of somewhat distinctive, curly hair. Why not skip the hair altogether, and just draw BG with a hoodie or hat (per the video)?

JMO, as always

Yes and they actually described his hair as reddish brown, IIRC. In the presser.

 

[dub]

It’s tough, especially not knowing what the crime scene looked like.

If we knew the murder weapon, position of the bodies, location of the bodies in relation to one another, and if there was a degree of overkill, we’d be able to hone in more accurately.

You can learn a lot about a killer from a crime scene, and we just don’t have that information.

Oh, no doubt, hence the "profiles" in quotes. Anything we churn out is obviously going to be wildly speculative, I'm just curious where people are at on that in light of the new developments.

 

[gitana1]

There’s a couple possibilities:

The DNA is not of the quality needed to go that route.

They’re in the process of doing this, but it has yet to yield results.

I don’t for a second, believe that this task force wouldn’t have done this, if they had the ability to do so.

They want to nail this monster as badly as the public wants them to.

More so. They've heard every bit of audio, seen the girls' dead bodies and looked into their loved one's eyes.

 

[jkloc420]

I did read in one of those articles researching familial DNA that it is finally starting to explode with some high profile results. But it has taken a while to take off because a lot of departments still consider it a last resort and put all their old standby investigative methods first. Only recently the case of the older couple murdered in AZ I think was quickly solved using it as a first line method.

Thats my point about le being stubborn. There are those in le who want the recognition from solving the crime by investigating means and not dna

 

[jkloc420]

Then why didn't they just do it in February at the anniversary press conference?

They can do it anytime they want. You would have to ask them.

 

[gitana1]

I understand that but when you’re talking about a small town and who they are side-eying, it’s the Walmart shoppers, not the ones who go to Target. If you live in a small town like this you know exactly what I mean.

But what does that have to do with te larger agencies like the FBI who are part of this investigation?

 

[MassGuy]

Thats my point about le being stubborn. There are those in le who want the recognition from solving the crime by investigating means and not dna

I’ve never seen this happen.

DNA is an investigative tool, it is a vital part of any homicide investigation (if it exists).

This is about finding a double murderer, and obtaining enough evidence to convict him in court.

No one cares how they do it, and they receive credit regardless.

 

[jkloc420]

I’ve never seen this happen.

DNA is an investigative tool, it is a vital part of any homicide investigation (if it exists).

This is about finding a double murderer, and obtaining enough evidence to convict him in court.

No one cares how they do it, and they receive credit regardless.

I also dont think it was one person who did it

 

[gitana1]

Well, if it’s a person and not a photo artifact resulting in a brain pattern error, I say it looks like the new Delphi POI drawing and that, if true, would place him at or near the lair at 2:07pm. Some with better imaging capability and someone who can locate that section of the river on the map would be helpful.

I think you have superhuman eyes.

 

[marisab67]

Yes but it's not the small town PD who is investigating this case. It's several agencies. And they've made clear they're not just looking at local creeps. They're the ones who said he's likely hiding in plain sight and could be anyone.

For two years we have been looking for the schlubbiest degenerate ever. People were listing all kinds of suspects based on social status in town. Didn’t ever see any choir boys come up. Only guys who could possibly be nicknamed Bubba.
Wonder why that is?

 

[Mamamerced]

Are you from Merced? I also lived in Oakdale for a few years growing up and experienced a bit of the same kind of duality. Ranchers are treated much differently regular townsfolk. If the perp was driving a King’s Ranch truck, they’d be the last to be questioned.

Nope.....not the Central Valley.....N. Ca.

 

[MassGuy]

I also dont think it was one person who did it

So you believe there were two killers, who removed the girls from the area, and this crime wasn’t sexually motivated?

I’d bet everything on the opposite.