Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #97

[ocgrad]

The victims were young teens but one was not a small girl, per the FBI posters.

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/liberty-german/@@download.pdf

Yes I was thinking that but didn't have a link for the exact.

 

[raja]

MassGuy, off the top of your head, and I am asking seriously and not in a challenging way (I will clearly state if I am being challenging lol), is can you (or anyone else) name an example of a perp who would be similar to what you’re thinking about being dumb and lucky and able to evade for so long? I’m sure there are tons of examples but I was trying to think about this the other day and was not recalling any specific examples off the top of my head. Tia.

My guess would be the kid in the JC case recently

 

[margarita25]

Right!? Me too!
I agree the early witness that saw him without head or face covered, became credible after something else came to light.
That the first sketch was said to be a SO who was cleared I consider rumor till I set my self down to listen or the former officers quote their source.

Yes I think that it would be nice for some clarification on this from LE as it seems to be somewhat of an elephant in the room as it was shared by retired FBI for goodness sakes (or supposedly, again I haven’t listened to it).

 

[CSIDreamer]

This is a question. And I'm trying to word it right. So, let's not eat me up if I can't get my thought across pretty please.

I haven't researched stats, I just haven't had time. In reading through replies , there is a lot of theorizing this guy couldn't get a date and was mad, broke up with a girlfriend, just had issues with women in his "peer group". Psychologically speaking, would he really channel his disillusion with women to two young teen girls? I'm not even sure what the stats say.

I'm just thinking it's more likely he was out "hunting" for whatever "prey" crossed his path that day. But I dunno.

 

[margarita25]

My guess would be the kid in the JC case recently

Nice. As mentioned earlier, JP. No criminal record, etc. This would be the same with someone like ARS, who killed Jessica Ridgeway.

What is JP’s IQ I wonder. Again I’m asking specifically as to intelligence level of our predator here just for hypothetical comparative purpose.

 

[Krwiley60]

The podcast is very good, recommend listening to it if you can. They are mainly discussing the press conference, said the whole thing was likely scripted by the behavior unit or profilers and designed to tell him it is over and make him uncomfortable. I guess that is what you all thought anyway.

To me, it sounded like classic FBI profiling straight from the textbook.

 

[Krwiley60]

I agree with you final statement as well. Particularly if there is a religious connection for this individual. He may feel he has been absolved for his heinous act with God. ( again reference The Shack), but suicide; even by cop, would still be a huge sin that forgiveness could not be sought.
If not a religious connection, the narcissist in him would not allow.
Narcissist= large ego+small self-worth. The ego would want notoriety the cowardly self-worth would fear death.
All IMO

Yes!!

 

[wary]

MassGuy, off the top of your head, and I am asking seriously and not in a challenging way (I will clearly state if I am being challenging lol), is can you (or anyone else) name an example of a perp who would be similar to what you’re thinking about being dumb and lucky and able to evade for so long? I’m sure there are tons of examples but I was trying to think about this the other day and was not recalling any specific examples off the top of my head. Tia.

I’m not MG, but I can’t resist trying.

First thoughts—the man who abducted and murdered an 11 year old girl—can’t think of the name, but it was a cold case recently solved by genetic genealogy. He seems to have succeeded by sheer brazenness—he grabbed her with someone watching.

The one who killed JC’s parents and abducted her—

The one who murdered Mickey Shunick doesn’t seem to be particularly brilliant

And so on...

 

[Suglo]

MassGuy, off the top of your head, and I am asking seriously and not in a challenging way (I will clearly state if I am being challenging lol), is can you (or anyone else) name an example of a perp who would be similar to what you’re thinking about being dumb and lucky and able to evade for so long? I’m sure there are tons of examples but I was trying to think about this the other day and was not recalling any specific examples off the top of my head. Tia.

John D. Miller in the April Tinsley case. Talk about a dumb dork yet he got away with it until genetic genealogy caught up to him a few months ago.

 

[x_files]

I’m sitting here wondering if there is even ONE THING that everybody can agree on as related to this case. Anything? I can’t think of one thing lol (other than we all want him arrested, of course).

the suspect is MALE.
Does anyone disagree?
In the Missy Bevers case, I still don't know if it's a man or woman!

 

[dub]

Carl Eugene Watts, is an extreme example.

He killed dozens of women, but took advantage of of the fact that the murders were random.

His IQ was about 75.

I don’t think this guy is that stupid, but I absolutely don’t think he’s very smart, or works a job that requires a great deal of intellectual ability.

My first thought on the question was Gary Ridgway, same basic idea as Watts.

 

[JaneEyre]

MassGuy, off the top of your head, and I am asking seriously and not in a challenging way (I will clearly state if I am being challenging lol), is can you (or anyone else) name an example of a perp who would be similar to what you’re thinking about being dumb and lucky and able to evade for so long? I’m sure there are tons of examples but I was trying to think about this the other day and was not recalling any specific examples off the top of my head. Tia.

I think Jake Patterson would have been if Jayme had not escaped. They had zero leads. His ties to the area were tenuous. If he had gotten tired of her and disposed of her a week earlier, I think he would have gotten away with it. MOO

 

[Angelcat13]

totally agree with you.
My guess is, since it's seems the perp is a younger person, that
the vehicle in question could be titled to a son and parent.
Son and parent must be covering for each other OR LE has
only spoken to parent. Maybe son was away at school and
parents lawyered up and won't allow son to speak w/ LE.
That's just my hunch.

This just made me think -
What if a son is a college student living at a fairly nearby school and came back to Delphi that day but never actually went home? The parents may not have known he came home and have discounted his involvement because they truly believe he was away at school.

The parents may have moments where they feel a twinge of doubt/suspicion about their son but they have convinced themselves he was not in the area so he can’t be involved. To allow themselves to let those doubts take hold and realize their son could be a brutal killer is probably too much to bear. It’s amazing sometimes how your mind can work to protect you from what you cannot accept.

I recently saw an Discovery ID show where a college student, Christopher Porto, was convicted of attacking his parents during the night with an axe - killing the father and critically injuring the mother. On scene, the mother implicated her son, Chris. His alibi was that he was away at school, however the prosecution successfully disproved that.

The mother later recanted her identification of her son as her attacker and, to this day, believes he is innocent.

Although most people may feel they would not cover for their child, I don’t think we ever really know how our mind may work to protect us from realizing the crushing truth that your child could be responsible for evil.

 

[OldLadyBlues]

I'm wondering.....so I'm going to "go there" for a second. I'm wondering if BG, instead of being religious, (which he very well may be) isn't a college student. I'm not talking the normal Purdue or IU student, but what if this guy got a full scholarship to Wabash. My exhusband did and he was "the talk of the (small) town" in Indiana for quite some time.
I don't see BG as wealthy or a bookworm nor even super popular. But in a small town, it's a big deal if you can get a full scholarship to a small, private liberal arts school that commands mega bucks to attend for the normal kid. The college also provides you a lifetime of connections as most grads end up higher up professionals.
Maybe BG is really a big fish in a small pond and that's the reason he's known. That's a reason Carter played the conscious card and told him he felt he had confided in someone.
Finals end tomorrow, commencement is May 12th.

IN MHO ONLY

 

[margarita25]

I know you are asking Mass Guy, but of course I thought of my Tacoma girls right away--Jenny Bastian and Michaela Welch. 1986-2018. Their murders terrorized Tacoma for 32 years.

Thanks for the response. I’m looking this up, one thing I’m seeing is “Police developed a behavioral profile of Bastian’s killer in 2013.” I’m curious what this reads like.

Suspected killer of Tacoma girl who disappeared in 1986 has been arrested

I’m trying not to stray too off topic here; I’m just really butting heads with @MassGuy on this intelligence level thing and it’s bugging me to death. From a profiling perspective I think this is an interesting and perhaps valid point of contention.

@Foxfire used to generally say “there’s a reason he’s gotten away with it for so long” (he passed away before Abby’s and Libby’s murders). What is that reason. Is he just lucky or is there a whooooooole lot more we don’t know. My opinion is that these crimes are just the tip of the iceberg, and especially IF he is NOT young, then perhaps there’s something more than just luck going on here.

Work wise I imagine him in a supervisory/independent type role.

It’s interesting how we all imagine things certain ways in our heads, differently, yet we are all exposed to the same information. It’s all speculation of course.

How unique or not unique is BG as a predator? Much of that would be known from the crime scene, to which of course we are not privy.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I'm wondering.....so I'm going to "go there" for a second. I'm wondering if BG, instead of being religious, (which he very well may be) isn't a college student. I'm not talking the normal Purdue or IU student, but what if this guy got a full scholarship to Wabash. My exhusband did and he was "the talk of the (small) town" in Indiana for quite some time.
I don't see BG as wealthy or a bookworm nor even super popular. But in a small town, it's a big deal if you can get a full scholarship to a small, private liberal arts school that commands mega bucks to attend for the normal kid. The college also provides you a lifetime of connections as most grads end up higher up professionals.
Maybe BG is really a big fish in a small pond and that's the reason he's known. That's a reason Carter played the conscious card and told him he felt he had confided in someone.
Finals end tomorrow, commencement is May 12th.

IN MHO ONLY

Definitely not that far from Delphi, either.

 

[x_files]

I'm wondering.....so I'm going to "go there" for a second. I'm wondering if BG, instead of being religious, (which he very well may be) isn't a college student. I'm not talking the normal Purdue or IU student, but what if this guy got a full scholarship to Wabash. My exhusband did and he was "the talk of the (small) town" in Indiana for quite some time.
I don't see BG as wealthy or a bookworm nor even super popular. But in a small town, it's a big deal if you can get a full scholarship to a small, private liberal arts school that commands mega bucks to attend for the normal kid. The college also provides you a lifetime of connections as most grads end up higher up professionals.
Maybe BG is really a big fish in a small pond and that's the reason he's known. That's a reason Carter played the conscious card and told him he felt he had confided in someone.
Finals end tomorrow, commencement is May 12th.

IN MHO ONLY

two weeks are coming to a close very soon!

 

[TTF14]

They literally build a profile of the killer and wait for him to disgard stuff with their dna on it and match it to the one on file. It takes a while to do it but thats what they are doing.

I thought you said they were withholding DNA to be stubborn.

 

[margarita25]

Ha, watch him be so dumb he’s not even competent to stand trial.

 

[Skully]

If LE thinks he may have grown up in the area, given the age range, do you think they thought to check out on line year books? Even if he didn't graduate, he may have a jr or sophomore picture. It wouldn't be that hard to narrow it down and then track down so of the people who may fit his profile. I am not saying anyone here should do that, just wondering if LE may be doing it.