Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #98

[x_files]

Guys, coming from a transplant. Is “dudes” gender-neutral? I always thought so.

On the West Coast. Yes. We call everyone dude here.

 

[neesaki]

For those of you who think this is his first murderS, honestly I am very surprised by how many have said this and I’m wondering what leads you to that opinion. I was also wondering for reference if anyone can name a child killer who’s first kill was a dual homicide? Tia. This must surely exist as we see mass shootings for example which are a “first kill”, but specifically for discussion purposes as related to child killers and likely pedophiles I do wonder about a dual homicide as a first crime. Anything is possible but imo I would lean towards this not being his first murder.

Also, how you feel about his victim count, etc could also depend upon how old you think the suspect is. If he is closer to 20, well then chances are likely his body count is less than if he is 40. Big difference between 20 and 40 imo as far as how this all goes down.

It is hard to believe it’s his first murder, so I thinking then that if not his first there should be some unsolved cases or missing persons as a result. I didn’t find anything in the state of Indiana, but haven’t gotten any further. Has anyone else researched this and found anything that could possibly tie in ? TIA

 

[x_files]

I believe it might be regional and perhaps generational. I was a young child - late teens in the 1970’s and 80’s. I grew up in the Deep South where we referred to everyone as “y’all”. I spent summers with relatives in Michigan who referred to a group of people (male and female) as “guys.” It was foreign to me because in the part of Louisiana where I grew up, no one referred to females as a guy.

On the West Coast, we use Dudes and you guys for addressing both male/females. Obviously, it's non-formal, but it's gender nonspecific. My friends and I call everyone dude.

 

[PoppyJune]

Here is something that is bothering me. I have been focusing on this guy's alibi because I believe it's of the utmost importance. They had a sketch of the real BG two years ago. It's my opinion that someone gave him an alibi then... even though they strongly suspected he was involved (hence LE going with the sketch they released in 2017). If the alibi has been lying all this time, what gives him or her any motivation to come forward now? Its early. I'm only on my second cup of coffee. Not sure if this makes sense.

Nothing in my opinion. I don’t think he will ever turn himself in.
Are there any stats on how many murderers actually turn themselves in on their own will?

ETA: I realize now that you’re asking what makes a person turn in the perp- not sure, I’d guess their own morals, if they have any.

 

[alwayssleuth]

First time posting...
I think perhaps BG grabbed the phone from Libby and put it in his own pocket not realizing it was recording. At the conclusion of the assault he either tried to throw it in Deer Creek to destroy it or smash the phone. Not realizing what could be retrieved from the phone.
As far as what he was doing on the bridge that day--I hope this isn't too graphic. However if the white cord seen at the top of his jacket was intended for his own suicide. What a way for a depressed, angry (MOO) person to end it all by hanging from a trestle. The girls unknowingly interrupted his plan and anger was turned on them.
My speculation doesn't help solve the crime but explains to me what may have transpired.
MOO

 

[x_files]

It is hard to believe it’s his first murder, so I thinking then that if not his first there should be some unsolved cases or missing persons as a result. I didn’t find anything in the state of Indiana, but haven’t gotten any further. Has anyone else researched this and found anything that could possibly tie in ? TIA

I'd search for assaults in parks, arsons, burglaries where nothing was stolen, peeping toms strange voyeuristic activities and animal torture/abuse.

 

[Skigh]

If someone has given a false alibi, I presume they will also be convicted?
I suppose if someone did give a false alibi they thought they were safe when the LE were looking for original BG.
Big question is whether they will now come forward and tell the truth?

 

[x_files]

Here is something that is bothering me. I have been focusing on this guy's alibi because I believe it's of the utmost importance. They had a sketch of the real BG two years ago. It's my opinion that someone gave him an alibi then... even though they strongly suspected he was involved (hence LE going with the sketch they released in 2017). If the alibi has been lying all this time, what gives him or her any motivation to come forward now? Its early. I'm only on my second cup of coffee. Not sure if this makes sense.

YES! New info or alibi came forth admitted to lying or was caught in a lie. Maybe the friend who lied started to get creeped out and no longer thought they were innocent after all.

 

[Angelcat13]

The SK that killed my sister, killed 2 young girls his first kill.

I’m so sorry for your loss. Bless you for being on Websleuths to try to help others in honor of your sister.

 

[Skigh]

First time posting...
I think perhaps BG grabbed the phone from Libby and put it in his own pocket not realizing it was recording. At the conclusion of the assault he either tried to throw it in Deer Creek to destroy it or smash the phone. Not realizing what could be retrieved from the phone.
As far as what he was doing on the bridge that day--I hope this isn't too graphic. However if the white cord seen at the top of his jacket was intended for his own suicide. What a way for a depressed, angry (MOO) person to end it all by hanging from a trestle. The girls unknowingly interrupted his plan and anger was turned on them.
My speculation doesn't help solve the crime but explains to me what may have transpired.
MOO

If that was his intention then he would just wait for the girls to leave the bridge.
he was behind them.

 

[marisab67]

This is about where my mind is sitting at this point. At the time I did question the change of sketches and THEN I found out it was drawn from witness statements less than a week after the murders. Now with no arrest, I have new unanswered questions.
I can't believe LE didn't think the killer was either a resident or a former resident or frequent visitor to the Delphi area, though. Many of us on here thought that same thing very early on. I believe Superintendent Carter stated that to add emphasis to the case and not that it was anything new to LE.
I do wonder now about the car parked in front of the abandoned building. Was it something LE was suspicious of all along and it was one of those bits of info LE keep to themselves? Or did it just recently take on more significance due to the new sketch?

IMHO JMO MOO they dismissed quite a few people and vehicles once they decided that BG was sketch one and for whatever reason they restarted looking, it became obvious they needed to reconsider sketches and therefore vehicles seen at or near scene.

 

[Angelcat13]

My 13 year old shoves her phone down the back of her trousers usually if she has no pockets for her phone.

Or in a sock or boot.

 

[Kimpossible31]

Something just hit me as I’m finally catching up and watching the hln special report..wonder if the “2 weeks” mentioned during the presser was to watch and see who stopped putting out their trash for 2 weeks (dna). Just a thought.

 

[marisab67]

First time posting...
I think perhaps BG grabbed the phone from Libby and put it in his own pocket not realizing it was recording. At the conclusion of the assault he either tried to throw it in Deer Creek to destroy it or smash the phone. Not realizing what could be retrieved from the phone.
As far as what he was doing on the bridge that day--I hope this isn't too graphic. However if the white cord seen at the top of his jacket was intended for his own suicide. What a way for a depressed, angry (MOO) person to end it all by hanging from a trestle. The girls unknowingly interrupted his plan and anger was turned on them.
My speculation doesn't help solve the crime but explains to me what may have transpired.
MOO

Excellent outside the box thinking and something I don’t think I have seen mentioned up until now.

 

[MistyWaters]

YES! New info or alibi came forth admitted to lying or was caught in a lie. Maybe the friend who lied started to get creeped out and no longer thought they were innocent after all.

If LE have incriminating evidence against a suspect, a verbal alibi from a third party without additional proof wouldn’t have cleared him. It’s quite common to see in criminal trials, defendants are convicted and sent to jail even though a defence witness adamantly testified the accused was with them the entire time. Were they lying or did they recall another time or day, hard to determine the difference. But if LE had “cleared” the suspect only because he had a verbal alibi from somebody else, no charges would’ve ever been laid.

It’s strong evidence of guilt which LE seeks, not proof of innocence.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

Was the first sketch guy actually on the trails that day? I still haven’t figured that out.

 

[Charlot123]

I too think parents could be covering.
The thought of their beloved child being convicted could be keeping them quiet.They could be in denial.
Their whole social standing and life style would be in ruins if it was revealed it was their son.

We were asked this question long ago, in the context of a different murder case. What it it happened to us? My answer was, I would not abandon the person. (i.e. hire a good lawyer, try to see that the conditions of the stay are the best), but I would not cover the murder, either.

The context of the situation is, the LEs were after a different person before, so no one can blame the relatives.

However, the question is, did a relative help to cover the murder immediately afterwards? If yes, he/she is guilty. But I honestly think they did not know.

What if the perpetrator told them early on? Complicated, but to me, in this situation, their silence can not be explained.

If, however, the relatives were merely guessing, but at the same time, the LE was after a totally different person, then they probably persuaded themselves that the perpetrator was that other person. Remember the old sketch, and the person LEs initially suspected? It all made sense.

So if the family only found out now, and are trying to organize the best outcome and a fair trial for their beloved one, I understand. It is not that everyone comes across this situation, daily. There are no instructions on what to do in these cases. And maybe they are shocked, but going by the book, hiring a lawyer, and going by atty's advice. What happens in their minds? I can only imagine.

But too early to blame them, given what we were seeing and hearing for two years.

Sympathise, probably not, but "compassion" is the emotion that is not out of place here.

 

[Snoop Sister]

««chucklin»» Ain't it just amazin' what you find when ya read all the way through an article?? Ives PLAINLY wants to prosecute this case, WHICH is the reason he rescinded his "retirement". The way I see that is he thinks this investigation is (now) on track AND prosecutable. I think I'll trust his judgement.
MOO, MOO

Agreed!

 

[enelram]

The word "Control" seemed to be used in the PC by the Supt.
to describe this crime and I took it as a motive for the crime.
Here's an article that talks about it as a motive and describes
a few more details about the potential perp.
Serial Homicide for Power and Control

 

[Peppery]

I too have wondered if he thought Kelsi would be there.

Not to mention kelsi and Libby really resembled each other.