Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #99

[MJPeony]

I’m so dang perplexed by the 2 sketches situation. 2 years of police distributing one sketch, the OBG sketch actually looking like the man in video, the YBG not, the two sketches looking very little alike, the use of the word “secondary” in the recent PC. (Secondary. Specifically said the old sketch is now “secondary”.). Just the whole thing.

So I’ve been mulling theories like all of us (day and night constantly percolating!). I’m not jazzed about anything I can come up with, but I do keep coming back to this-

Any thoughts on the possibility that OBG actually is the killer/the man seen on the bridge, but LE has now purposely put out this new sketch of someone who the killer knows and is close to... hoping it will scare the killer into confessing, or scare someone covering for him into coming forward because the killer or person covering won’t want the new sketch guy to be charged or pursued?

 

[Knox]

Familial DNA search might unlock Delphi killer's identity

Also the way they found the Golden State Killer in California. ://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2018/04/27/golden-state-killer-dna-website-gedmatch-was-used-to-identify-joseph-deangelo-as-suspect-police-say/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.33b3de15ca12

 

[Charlot123]

Only the theory that links the perp to the vehicle referred to in the pc, as that parking spot would not be a known or obvious place to park for access to the trails unless you had knowledge of it . Moo.

Or potentially, the equally tired ,familial dna link gained by le from crime scene after analysis. Linking perp to a known Delphi originating family. Moo

Hence asking for other opinions

Maybe there is a cross-match between the two? The owner of the vehicle and the DNA from the crime scene?

 

[Brubon]

How strange it will be when we find out BG is a Delphi child molester whose alibi was provided by a High Bridge witness who was a friend of BG. How sad it will be for BG's mom and dad when they learn their child is a murderer. I'm not Gibbs from NCIS but I have a gut feeling. MOO
Peace be with Abby and Libby.

 

[MassGuy]

How strange it will be when we find out BG is a Delphi child molester whose alibi was provided by a High Bridge witness who was a friend of BG. How sad it will be for BG's mom and dad when they learn their child is a murderer. I'm not Gibbs from NCIS but I have a gut feeling. MOO
Peace be with Abby and Libby.

It doesn’t look like they are using alibis to rule out suspects here.

It appears to be DNA that is doing that.

DNA doesn’t lie.

 

[ab01]

It doesn’t look like they are using alibis to rule out suspects here.

It appears to be DNA that is doing that.

DNA doesn’t lie.

yah DNA is going to likely be key to this case IMO

Another reason why I think BG is rather young, hence no DNA on file

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

I have yet to read or hear one believable (to me) reason why police would issue a sketch and open themselves back to up hundreds or more mostly useless “tips” if they know who this guy is.

First, I do not believe police would risk a sketch if they know who he is, due to possible false accusations, the likelihood image is not a good match to the person, etc...makes zero sense. Secondly, police would not address people who “know” him via a press conference. If they know this is Tom Thumb, i.e, it is to those close to Tom Thumb they would be spending their time with. Not flinging out strategic words and phrases in hopes that these same folks would hang their heads and give in.

I really don’t get the seemingly overwhelming belief that they know who he is. At all. Jmo

I will admit to thinking last week that they knew who it was. I concocted my own theory that the second sketch was crafted to boost someone’s memory. Someone that was, even inadvertently, covering for BG with an unbreakable alibi. That the first sketch was a disguise or just looked like a shabby older guy, and the new sketch was a younger version. Perhaps even drawn from an actual photo. Reason being, sometimes when we love someone, we perpetually picture them younger than they actually are, as they age. So sketch 1 was of a person that BG’s family member cannot visualize in his or her mind’s eye, even though they know BG intimately. If that makes sense. It was just a rabbit hole theory by me.

But I now agree with others here. If LE knows who BG is and also had his DNA, he would be in custody.

 

[travelbug]

I read his demeanor in the presser to say, how dare you betray (insert here the pronoun you think fits best), and to have the audacity to think you could get away with it. In Carter's body language, I read hurt, anger bordering on fury, a deep sense of betrayal, and intense determination. Do you think the emotions we saw were coached, completely in- the- moment, or a combination?

I think they were a mixture of following "script" when mentioning some of the specifics, but I believe the emotions were very real.

 

[Charlot123]

You´re welcome, SusiQ!
Yes, BG was behind them- the girls were at the SE end of the bridge. Libby was facing NW end of the bridge at the moment, taking pictures of Abby.

<modsnip: not an approved source>

so if he was behind them, and Libby was facing away from him, how could they see him approaching? Or did he pass by them, and then turn back?

 

[margarita25]

The little girl, middle far left. Who is that?

Never mind, I see it now. I just remember this little girls picture.

April Tinsley I think.

Yes, April Tinsley indeed.

Some relevant quotes from the media thread / quoting for reference:

BBM / Note: “Investigators working on the Delphi case are now using the same DNA technology used to arrest a man near Fort Wayne this week, suspected in the 1988 murder of a little girl.”

Also note “Delphi Investigators are working closely with the detectives who arrested John D. Miller on Sunday in the rape and murder of April Tinsley.“”

While there is no connection, the above two quotes are still relevant.

The investigation into April’s death was quite extensive and there were other persons of interest, etc.

Also note that from just the past July, “We have 1,000 names out there, and we're still looking at all of them,' he said.”

Police won't say if Fort Wayne's cold case suspect linked to Delphi killings

DELPHI, Ind. — Questions about 8-year-old April Tinsley's suspected killer from 1988 remained unanswered until Sunday's arrest of John D. Miller.

For 30 years, DNA evidence turned up no matches to a particular individual. Yet the DNA from the crime scene matched taunts left by the killer, who police now suspect is Miller, 59, of Grabill.

One of those taunts Miller allegedly made is that he'll kill again. The words have a haunting ring to them for people around nearby Delphi.

Indiana police REFUSE to say if suspect accused of killing April Tinsely is linked to other deaths | Daily Mail Online

Part of article relating to Delphi-

On Monday, as police addressed reporters about John Miller's arrest, Sergeant Kim Riley refused to comment on whether he could be a suspect in Libby and Abby's killing, The Journal and Courier reported.

'We have 1,000 names out there, and we're still looking at all of them,' he said. Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said Miller's arrest was 'new information' and it was too early to announce if he was considered a suspect in the Delphi murders. Leazenby said the department hadn't yet discussed if they would ask for the evidence compiled by Fort Wayne Police to compare with what they had on Libby and Abby's killer.+15After Libby and Abby were killed, police found a photograph of a man believed to be involved in their deaths on Libby's phone+15Using the picture and eyewitness accounts of people who had encountered him on the day, police then released a sketch of what he is believed to look like+15The map above shows the locations of incidents around Fort Wayne that were linked to April's murder, including the abduction site, body recovery site, and where notes were left. Miller is believed to have been active until at least 2004, but so far is only accused of April's murder+15A memorial has been set up at the site of the Delphi Trail bridge where Libby and Abby were last seen. Their families are desperate for answersLibby and Abby were dropped off at the Historic Trail about 1pm on February 13. When the girls failed to show up to meet a family member for a ride home, they were reported missing. Police have released a photo Libby took of a man believed to have killed the teenage girl and her friend, as well as an audio recording of him saying: 'down the hill'.Officers also released a sketch of what the man is believed to look like based on the photograph and people who had interacted with him on the day.

Fort Wayne arrest boosts hope for Delphi residents

Indiana State Police discuss Delphi murders with Fort Wayne investigators

Best part of the article:

Indiana State Police Sergeant Kim Riley told ABC News Wednesday: "About all I can say, is we are discussing the case with them and talking. No other comment to say at this time."

Renewed hope for Delphi families after Fort Wayne arrest

Jul 18, 2018

"DELPHI, Ind. (WTHR) - An arrest in a Fort Wayne cold case is bringing a sense of renewed hope to the families of the Delphi murder victims.

John Miller was arrested Sunday for the 1988 murder of 8-year-old April Tinsley. The families of Libby German and Abby Williams recently spoke with our sister station WTHR. Family members hope the same tireless work and new technology that put Miller behind bars helps bring them justice.

The man suspected of killing the teen best friends has eluded police for more than 17 months. Officers have combed through thousands of tips, and the crime has garnered national headlines, but police still haven't put a name to the killer's face.

Libby's sister, Kelsi, said that day will come eventually...."

Renewed hope for Delphi families after Fort Wayne arrest
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Police won't say if 1988 Indiana cold case suspect linked to 2017 Delphi murders of two teenage girls

Victim's mother, sheriff hope science used in Ft. Wayne can help solve Delphi murders


Part of article:


Wednesday, Abby's mother, Anna, told NewsCenter 16's Maureen McFadden that while the "cases are not connected," there is hope that something similar will lead to finding Abby and Libby's killer.

Delphi murder investigators using same DNA tech that led to Fort Wayne cold case arrest

“Investigators working on the Delphi case are now using the same DNA technology used to arrest a man near Fort Wayne this week, suspected in the 1988 murder of a little girl.”

Police won't say if 1988 Indiana cold case suspect linked to 2017 Delphi murders of two teenage girls
July 18th

“Police have refused to comment on any possible connection between the 1988 murder of an eight-year-old Indiana girl and the deaths of two teenage girls in February 2017 after a suspect was arrested and confessed to the 30-year-old crime.

Delphi Investigators are working closely with the detectives who arrested John D. Miller on Sunday in the rape and murder of April Tinsley.“

Victim's mother, sheriff hope science used in Ft. Wayne can help solve Delphi murders
Jul 18, 2018

“DELPHI, Ind. (WNDU) - The mother of one of the murdered Delphi girls told NewsCenter 16 that there is no connection to the man arrested for a 1988 Fort Wayne murder, but there is hope.”

 

[neesaki]

<rsbm>

LE said the hat should be disregarded but I can't recall what reason was given at the time. (Possibly because they could not distinguish the exact style).

Sillybilly! Where ya been? So good to see you!

 

[MsBetsy]

Familial DNA search might unlock Delphi killer's identity

Thank you! I know it says something about not having the manpower or equipment for familial DNA searching, but that was a year ago so maybe things have changed since then.
Maybe they decided to use a private company like Paraben. Jmo

 

[Sneaker33]

I do think LE has a specific person. LE stated he or someone close to him has been interviewed. I wonder what the legal protocols are for obtaining DNA which would hold up in court. I am sure they could take a cup he drank from during an agreed interview but I am not sure if they obtained something without permission if it would be admissible in court. I doubt he would submit to a blood sample if he was guilty.

 

[K.jill]

How long does it take for dna results?
If investigators took DNA from several potential suspects last week, when with the results come in?

 

[Charlot123]

I will admit to thinking last week that they knew who it was. I concocted my own theory that the second sketch was crafted to boost someone’s memory. Someone that was, even inadvertently, covering for BG with an unbreakable alibi. That the first sketch was a disguise or just looked like a shabby older guy, and the new sketch was a younger version. Perhaps even drawn from an actual photo. Reason being, sometimes when we love someone, we perpetually picture them younger than they actually are, as they age. So sketch 1 was of a person that BG’s family member cannot visualize in his or her mind’s eye, even though they know BG intimately. If that makes sense. It was just a rabbit hole theory by me.

But I now agree with others here. If LE knows who BG is and also had his DNA, he would be in custody.

He should be in custody. Unless, 1) they know he will not escape anywhere; 2) they are sure he will not strike again; 3) maybe, he is in a mental institution, with a policeman 24-7?

 

[MassGuy]

I do think LE has a specific person. LE stated he or someone close to him has been interviewed. I wonder what the legal protocols are for obtaining DNA which would hold up in court. I am sure they could take a cup he drank from during an agreed interview but I am not sure if they obtained something without permission if it would be admissible in court. I doubt he would submit to a blood sample if he was guilty.

Carter wasn’t that adamant about that. He was indicating that it was probable that he, or someone close to him had been interviewed.

As for obtaining his DNA, standard protocol is to obtain it from trash, or some other discarded item (if a suspect refuses to provide a sample).

If a match is developed, then a warrant can be obtained to compel him to provide a sample, which would then meet the burden to hold up in court.

 

[Charlot123]

How long does it take for dna results?
If investigators took DNA from several potential suspects last week, when with the results come in?

If he just took them, they can be ready today. They are probably rushed. If there is a match.

 

[Cherokee]

JMO.

Let's look at the semantics of what LE has really said about the DNA.

They haven't said they are processing the perp's DNA. They said they were processing DNA. It could have been Abby's and Libby's DNA the labs were processing in order to extract their DNA profiles and see if there were others mixed in.

LE has also said that familial DNA for finding the perp is "on the table." That means nothing. Of course, it's "on the table," meaning an option if they ever get enough of the perp's DNA to run through familial (autosomal) DNA testing and then have a genealogist build trees to find matching relatives and MCRAs (Most Common Recent Ancestors).

I have done this kind of work, and it is very time-consuming, but it does not take two years to build family trees for a white male from Indiana, whose ancestry is probably very traceable. If LE had autosomal DNA from the perp that was a full sequence, and it was found at the crime scene on the girls' clothing or evidence, he would already be arrested and charged.

Look at the solved 47-year-old cold case announced today of the ISU coed! They had no witnesses, no leads at all, but the perp's DNA conclusively placed him in contact with the victim and was enough to arrest and try him for murder if he were still alive!

DNA doesn't lie, but there has to be enough to tell the story.

 

[MassGuy]

How long does it take for dna results?
If investigators took DNA from several potential suspects last week, when with the results come in?

It would depend on lab backlog, if these samples weren’t expedited.

If they really thought that they had DNA from a viable suspect, they probably wouldn’t have to wait nearly as long as usual.

In extreme cases, analysis can be performed in under 24 hours.

I’d guess that these samples are being analyzed fairly quickly, as cheek swabs don’t take as long to process as other more complicated samples.

 

[acutename]

In regular lighting I have brown hair, but in sunlight I definitely have highlights that have a reddish tone. Anyone remember the old "Sun-In" stuff that was supposed to lighten your hair? The label warned about using it if you have reddish highlights because instead of ending up with pretty blonde highlights you could end up with orange? Well, I didn't listed and ended up with highlights that definitely weren't what I was looking for.

I would think that the makers of Sun-In put this on the label because there must be at least a fair number of people with red highlights that they thought needed to be warned. JMO

not sure what the predominant ancestral groups in Delphi (pop est 3000?) are.... if they are Scotch/Irish/northern Euro? maybe reddish brown is rather common? A and L had blondish brown and reddish hair, so we know that there are people with those hair colors present in the population. IMO.


here we go: (about 87% of the population in these groups):
Ancestries: American (16.6%), German (10.5%), Irish (6.0%), English (5.7%), European (2.1%), Scotch-Irish (1.8%).

source: http://www.city-data.com/city/Delphi-Indiana.html
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Delphi-Indiana.html

[leaves a large % out ...]