Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #99

[ilovechili]

In regular lighting I have brown hair, but in sunlight I definitely have highlights that have a reddish tone. Anyone remember the old "Sun-In" stuff that was supposed to lighten your hair? The label warned about using it if you have reddish highlights because instead of ending up with pretty blonde highlights you could end up with orange? Well, I didn't listed and ended up with highlights that definitely weren't what I was looking for.

I would think that the makers of Sun-In put this on the label because there must be at least a fair number of people with red highlights that they thought needed to be warned. JMO

I had a discussion about this not too long ago in real life not on here. I think they still make Sun-In honestly, I never used it but do know what it is. I think it also varies due to as someone said earlier (same with highlighting kits, hairdresser experienced professional highlighting, etc.) depending on your water and pipes and where you wash your hair. It happened to me, natural looking highlights but I had moved and all of a sudden they were orange so I quit wasting my time and $$. So I can identify with you they for sure were not the kind of highlights I was looking for.

Could he have reddish brown hair based on water? Not because he highlighted but just because of what minerals and water do to hair...?

 

[Confusion]

<SNIP>
I can feel the frustration. I know the WS community could do great things with more, I want to do more, but we could also with the information we have find:

A tank
A sail boat
A guy wearing a respirator
Someone hiding at the end of a bridge
Someone floating next to the bridge watching
A kitten
A cattle Prod
Two Perps
Three Perps
A car
and much more...

Our true Job is to keep these girls names relevant and never let their case go silent until it is solved.

And a partridge in a pear tree?

Sorry, I had to say it.
_____________________
I'm probably one of a few people who wasn't really surprised by the new sketch. It looks very much like what I expected him to look like. A somewhat rounded face, curly/wavy medium brown hair with a reddish tint to it, hazel/light brown eyes, 25-30 years old, average build, but maybe closer to the slim side than husky/muscular. I have no idea what it's based on (maybe his voice?), but I'm half expecting to find that he has asthma once he's caught too. I have believed almost from the beginning that he had left some of his things where the girls were found, and that was why he brought them to that spot. It's probably one of the best hidden spots in the area; you can't really see it from any direction unless you're almost next to it.

The one thing that does bother me is that it's bringing me back to RL; I keep thinking that he'd feel even more secure there, and have an easier chance getting to and from there, if he knew that RL was going to be gone that day. I don't think RL knew anything about what he was planning, or what he had done, but it's possible that BG had overheard RL talking to someone about going to Lafayette (or wherever he was) that day, or RL may have even asked him for a ride. I guess that's enough of my story telling since I have no facts to back up anything I'm thinking about.

MOO

 

[Charlot123]

Carter wasn’t that adamant about that. He was indicating that it was probable that he, or someone close to him had been interviewed.

As for obtaining his DNA, standard protocol is to obtain it from trash, or some other discarded item.

If a match is developed, then a warrant can be obtained to compel him to provide a sample, which would then meet the burden to hold up in court.

That of course, is if he is unwilling to provide it voluntarily, prior to obtaining it surreptitiously.

They can lift DNA from fingerprints, from old stamps, from hair bulbs, from a pen or other item someone habitually uses. From clothes. Surely from a cousin (who may not like the perp) for a family match. From anywhere and anything. Maybe for legal purposes, they need verification with DNA provided by him, but if he refuses, it is the same as refusing to be fingerprinted in old times, very suspicious.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes, April Tinsley indeed.

Some relevant quotes from the media thread / quoting for reference:

BBM / Note: “Investigators working on the Delphi case are now using the same DNA technology used to arrest a man near Fort Wayne this week, suspected in the 1988 murder of a little girl.”

Also note “Delphi Investigators are working closely with the detectives who arrested John D. Miller on Sunday in the rape and murder of April Tinsley.“”

While there is no connection, the above two quotes are still relevant.

The investigation into April’s death was quite extensive and there were other persons of interest, etc.

Also note that from just the past July, “We have 1,000 names out there, and we're still looking at all of them,' he said.”

BBM

Feb 13, 2019
“In 2018 came fresh hope with the arrest of John Miller, who admitted to killing 8-year-old April Tinsley in Ft. Wayne 30 years earlier.

That case was solved with DNA evidence by Parabon Nanolabs. Investigators in the Delphi case worked closely with those who cracked the Tinsley case to see if their methods or findings could help solve the murders of Abby and Libby. Parabon Nanolabs declined an interview and state police would not say if the same test was being used in the investigation.

But their website shows technology can match DNA to someone already in a database. It can also use information about physical appearance found in the genes “to generate new leads on unknown suspects.”

CBS4 asked Indiana State Police why the investigation has taken two years if DNA evidence was recovered. Sgt. Riley responded only, “I’m not going to make a comment on that.”...
Investigation ongoing two-years after murders of Abby Williams, Libby German in Delphi

 

[Cherokee]

They can lift DNA from fingerprints, from old stamps, from hair bulbs, from a pen or other item someone habitually uses. From clothes. Surely from a cousin (who may not like the perp) for a family match. From anywhere and anything. Maybe for legal purposes, they need verification with DNA provided by him, but if he refuses, it is the same as refusing to be fingerprinted in old times, very suspicious.

JMO.

They cannot lift true conventional DNA from clothes if it does not come from saliva, semen, blood or some other bodily fluid. "Touch DNA" or "Trace DNA" is very controversial and unreliable. It cannot be used in a court of law because it is extremely susceptible to contamination. There can be secondary and tertiary transfer.

We shed millions of DNA cells every day, and we are covered with the cells of other humans; on our clothes, on our skin, even on our faces. DNA is so infinitesimal, it is hard for us to even imagine how minute it truly is because we are programmed to see a larger world.

The real world is not a CSI episode. The general public has been conditioned to expect whole DNA and DNA that can be dated to the crime scene. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[Blueberry2720]

. . . As for obtaining his DNA, standard protocol is to obtain it from trash, or some other discarded item (if a suspect refuses to provide a sample). . . .

Assuming LE wants DNA from a person, and the person does not have a record and DNA recorded anywhere, why might a person refuse to provide a DNA sample? If he/she refuses, it would just raise red flags if I was LE.

 

[Cherokee]

McAdams/Coleman interview:
McAdams says they are processing evidence daily, including DNA.

JMO.

Thank you for posting this video.

The reporter asks, "Was there DNA evidence found at the scene of the crime?"

The investigator answers, "I think in every crime scene you have, you're gonna have DNA."

Once again, look at the semantics. It is stating the obvious but not answering the question.

 

[cluciano63]

He should be in custody. Unless, 1) they know he will not escape anywhere; 2) they are sure he will not strike again; 3) maybe, he is in a mental institution, with a policeman 24-7?

Then why show a sketch? Makes no sense to me. If it is a sketch of a person known to them, that seems very misleading and kind of iffy, in a way...like we are showing you this drawing but not giving away his identity kind of thing.

If they knew who he was, the PC would have been only to withdraw the incorrect sketch...not add a new one to the confusion.

Jmo

 

[MassGuy]

Assuming LE wants DNA from a person, and the person does not have a record and DNA recorded anywhere, why might a person refuse to provide a DNA sample? If he/she refuses, it would just raise red flags if I was LE.

Lots of people refuse, especially those who don’t trust law enforcement, or the government.

It certainly raises red flags, but refusal from innocent people isn’t as unusual as most people might think.

 

[Charlot123]

JMO.

They cannot lift true conventional DNA from clothes if it does not come from saliva, semen, blood or some other bodily fluid. "Touch DNA" or "Trace DNA" is a very controversial and unreliable. It cannot be used in a court of law because it is extremely susceptible to contamination. There can be secondary and tertiary transfer.

We shed millions of DNA cells every day, and we are covered with the cells of other humans; on our clothes, on our skin, even on our faces. DNA is so infinitesimal, it is hard for us to even imagine how minute it truly is because we are programmed to see a larger world.

The real world is not a CSI episode. The general public has been conditioned to expect whole DNA and DNA that can be dated to the crime scene. Nothing could be further from the truth.

BTW, I spoke about obtaining his DNA. DNA from crime scene might be contaminated, not present, or, the perp has cleansed his own. I don’t know.

The Kinds of Tissues That DNA Can Be Extracted From to Make DNA Fingerprints

Re. the Delphi case: I simply hope that one of the girls scratched him bad enough, and there are epithelial cells or maybe, blood, left under her nails (and if he cleansed the area, and there are none - this is the first proof that insanity defense won’t work for him, that he knew what he was doing and that there is zero remorse).

It seriously might be the situation when there is some DNA left, but not good enough, but in these two years, science has moved far enough to allow to work with what they have.

And my suspicion, that the perp might be adopted, is still viable, in my mind.

 

[Blueberry2720]

Another DNA question -

What if BG is not the biological child of 1 or both parents? Wouldn't that throw testing off?

 

[cluciano63]

JMO.

Thank you for posting this video.

The reporter asks, "Was there DNA evidence found at the scene of the crime?"

The investigator answers, "I think in every crime scene you have, you're gonna have DNA."

Once again, look at the semantics. It is stating the obvious but not answering the question.

Jmo but the relentless caginess about DNA makes me think that what was obtained was a result of a sexual attack on one or both victims...could be totally wrong but they have continually avoided both questions, whether they have DNA or not and whether sexual assaults took place...so my mind goes there...

 

[acutename]

Assuming LE wants DNA from a person, and the person does not have a record and DNA recorded anywhere, why might a person refuse to provide a DNA sample? If he/she refuses, it would just raise red flags if I was LE.

hmmm.... hiding from their unacknowledged offspring? just an example of a reason

 

[margarita25]

Thanks! I'm leaning towards familial DNA linking the perp to Delphi. Just a hunch but as good as any, I guess

This is an interesting thought indeed (al though I do wonder if expressing a broad link to Delphi (“We also believe this person is from Delphi–currently or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis or works here”) is merely common sense and standard profiling, considering one would likely have to have known about the bridge.

Thinking about this further, in order for this to be the case (DNA linking him to Delphi), they would obviously need to have a familial/relative’s DNA source (“Does familial DNA work? Yes, Harmon emphatically answered. But he adds a qualifier: There must be a DNA sample from a family member in the database. If there's no family member in there, then police will not find a match after all of the tests are finished.“
Familial DNA search might unlock Delphi killer's identity)

So, if they have the suspect’s DNA but do NOT have a familial match which is likely imo, as not all persons submit their DNA to these ancestry-type databases, then here’s another scenario:

IF they suspect a particular person or have a very strong POI who may not currently be in the area and they do not know his whereabouts, I wonder if they would pull the “coffee cup trick” on a known family member.

I guess what I’m saying is when we think about DNA being obtained this way, we are always referring directly to the potential suspect. But perhaps this can also be applicable to family members of potential suspects? I wonder if they’ve ever collected DNA from a family member this way to confirm a potential familial link?

 

[peel]

I've been at work all day and just got home........I'm getting confused.....no surprise there....but is the guy in the new sketch supposed to be the same guy who's pic we've seen in the video?

 

[MassGuy]

Jmo but the relentless caginess about DNA makes me think that what was obtained was a result of a sexual attack on one or both victims...could be totally wrong but they have continually avoided both questions, whether they have DNA or not and whether sexual assaults took place...so my mind goes there...

Just because they may have DNA, doesn’t mean that sexual assault occurred.

They are unwilling to answer the question, but I don’t see that as evidence of SA, one way or another.

I say this, because there’s plenty of other ways that he could have left his DNA at the crime scene, or on the victims (if they scratched him for instance).

 

[acutename]

Another DNA question -

What if BG is not the biological child of 1 or both parents? Wouldn't that throw testing off?

Adoption Statistics | Adoption Network

https://adoptionnetwork.com/adoption-statistics
How many Americans are adopted? There are about 1.5 million adopted children in the United States, which is 2% of the population, or one out of 50 children.

(full of stats today) numerically, not a whole lot of adopted folk in Delphi... how many of them are also: male, reddish haired and the specified height and weight....

 

[MassGuy]

I've been at work all day and just got home........I'm getting confused.....no surprise there....but is the guy in the new sketch supposed to be the same guy who's pic we've seen in the video?

Correct.

New sketch=Guy in video=The killer

 

[Cherokee]

Another DNA question -

What if BG is not the biological child of 1 or both parents? Wouldn't that throw testing off?

Not at all.

Using autosomal DNA, I have helped find the biological parents of adoptees, find the bio father of persons who knew someone else as their father, as well as confirm parentage of a person who had been told he was adopted (cruel mother) and wasn't.

Building the family trees is based on the DNA, not on someone's family tree. Yes, the information from the latter can be helpful, but the DNA points the way.

About 1 in every 10 births is called an NPE, or non-parental event, meaning 1/10th of mankind has been fathered by another man other than who the child believes is their father. This percentage has held true throughout most of history.

JMO.

 

[Cherokee]

The Kinds of Tissues That DNA Can Be Extracted From to Make DNA Fingerprints

@Cherokee, I am going to find one old article and post it here. I think the article itself is bull., but I want to know your opinion about the DNA from old shawl.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, people conflating conventional DNA with touch DNA. It is very confusing to the layperson because the article writer tries to simplify a very complex topic.

JMO.