Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #99

[enelram]

There are signs here and there. The park is on various maps and the high bridge is an historic site. Various websites about the area mention the park. I mean, it's a marked trail.People who enjoy railroad history, walking trails, railroad bridges, pretty places to take pictures, etc. visit it. Many people go there to have their senior pictures or prom pictures taken. While it's not right in the middle of town, it isn't hidden either. People have criticized the family for dropping the girls off "in the middle of the woods", but it's not even that far from downtown. We're not talking about the Appalachian Trail here. GPS can get you there, though parking can sometimes be a problem. It's mostly a place where locals go, but it is not without reason to think that people visit it from other areas, too. There aren't that many high bridges left. IMO it is not isolated or unknown enough to think that only locals know about it. It's not necessarily a place that you'd find if you were just driving around, but if you already know about it then it's not hard to find. If LE think BG is local, then I don't think it's simply because he was present at the park that day.

thank you for this helpful info.
So LE must have another reason to tie perp to Delphi.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I know, my aunt and granny had Alzheimer´s.

Mine too. Sometimes we use humour as a coping mechanism

 

[FrostedGlass]

They didn't say BG was excluded. They said there's a new face to BG.

OK, I'll reword it: The only way the old face was excluded was if the witness (eyes: not blue) recanted their description. MOO

 

[mtnlites]

thank you for this helpful info.
So LE must have another reason to tie perp to Delphi.

Yeah, I think so. I think it must lay in something that they know and aren't sharing.

 

[PaulaDC]

So the investigative focus is still on the driver of the parked vehicle, a car -

“Police are still hoping for fresh tips about one piece of information released in the news conference.

We're still looking for the car that was parked in the lot," Riley told News 18. "If somebody can give us that information, we want that information as quickly as possible."

The importance of the car also ties into why police now believe the killer is local. Riley said after reviewing many tips, investigators determined he was able to get around quickly on the day the girls were killed, and seemed to know the area.”

I hope this means they have video from businesses of him driving by.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I don’t really lean towards him contacting LE, but that could be what The Shack reference was about.

I personally think The Shack reference was far more personal for the killer, but who knows!

I agree with you. I think that reference is highly meaningful to the killer somehow (or LE think it should be). It's so hard to know what motivates the mind of a killer or how the person will respond.

One theory I have is that the perpetrator suffered a tragic personal loss, similar to the situation in The Shack." As twisted as this sounds, when the person is caught, I think his motivation may have been revenge for that loss.

I do think the date might be significant.

 

[JustEve]

The world has gotten much bigger these days. In the past, people tended to live, work, and socialize within the same town so it was natural for most people to know each other. That is no longer so. People who live in Delphi may not work there at all-they may commute to other towns. Likewise, people who live in other towns may work in Delphi. With Main Streets all over the country shutting down due to urbanization, it's difficult to find shopping places so people drive to other towns, or counties, or go online. The sense of "community" slips further away each year, too. You are no longer limited to only socializing with your neighbors; these days our "friends" can literally be located all over the world. Urbanization, social media sites, broadband internet, the closing of local businesses...these things are happening everywhere. It's not a "mentality", it's just something that's happening.

My entire county only has 3,000 people. I've lived here for 15 years. While I know many people by sight, I certainly couldn't say that I know everyone. Likewise, I've been traveling back and forth to Delphi for almost 40 years. My family has lived there for even longer. None of us would say that we know everyone who lives there, though some of the people who have public roles in the town are at least recognizable by sight.

I see your point. There is really a big difference between USA and my country- small country, old population; everything is different.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Connection could be “none” or “unknown” or “was in Delphi that day.”

It might be that the person writing up the request form merely forgot to add (if any) to the connection to Delphi question.

 

[NameUser]

Thanks for this! I have been thinking this same thing for quite awhile. I also have thought it strange that although you run into rumors here and there, nothing is ever leaked by anyone. Though almost the entire town was looking for the girls, no one says anything about


Between the time the girls see BG on the bridge and Libby’s Dad arrives and starts calling/looking for them, I’m not sure there is time for all that.

Agree 100% -- BBM

 

[JustEve]

Mine too. Sometimes we use humour as a coping mechanism

Exactly.

 

[vinayd]

I do wonder what kind of dna they gathered. If the coward had on layers I think he was prepared to eliminate that chance.

 

[NickoD]

I am quite horrified about the states that allow DNA only as acceptable for an arrest warrant or those that believe that DNA only is the answer to any case.

A couple of weekends ago I was up at a trail. I had a full day ahead of me and knowing it was going to be warm and humid I was well hydrated. I also continued to hydrate that day which lead me to have to take regular pit stops. I was on a public trail with others around me so I had to go "down the hill", out of sight essentially, to relieve myself.

Now imagine if someone had killed someone on top of the place I had previously urinated. My DNA would probably be all over the victim and the crime scene. My truck would be noted at the trailhead. My sketch would be out there as someone who was seen in close proximity to the crime scene.

In many circles the above is 1+1+1=arrest. My arrest would be made public via MSM and those that believe that DNA is the bastion of all evidence would crucify me in the court of public opinion. I would have to rely on a good lawyer to explain to the court why my DNA was present and poke holes and then potentially leave it to a jury to find out if there's any doubt to my innocence. I would lose my job, my family, my friends. Scary stuff.

My point is, we should always look at the totality of the evidence and not hang our hat on one thing. Finding DNA of someone on a public trail only means that this person was at that trail at some point. Finding semen vs. urine means different things (yet there are some thrillseekers that public places rock their boat). Blood can simply mean someone cut themselves. People do stuff that leaves DNA and do not have to kill someone to be placed at a location.

Our justice system is so great because it is based on a presumption of innocence. The moment that changes to anything different would be a scary world.

Just MOO.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I’m so dang perplexed by the 2 sketches situation. 2 years of police distributing one sketch, the OBG sketch actually looking like the man in video, the YBG not, the two sketches looking very little alike, the use of the word “secondary” in the recent PC. (Secondary. Specifically said the old sketch is now “secondary”.). Just the whole thing.

So I’ve been mulling theories like all of us (day and night constantly percolating!). I’m not jazzed about anything I can come up with, but I do keep coming back to this-

Any thoughts on the possibility that OBG actually is the killer/the man seen on the bridge, but LE has now purposely put out this new sketch of someone who the killer knows and is close to... hoping it will scare the killer into confessing, or scare someone covering for him into coming forward because the killer or person covering won’t want the new sketch guy to be charged or pursued?

I've been debating for over 24 hours whether or not to put this out there, because y'all will think I'm completely crazy. I get that, but please don't laugh too hard at my expense...

Okay, I know the FBI and other agencies, organizations, and companies are FANTASTIC at cleaning up audio and video. That's without dispute. Some amateurs do an amazing job also. Having said that, a couple days ago, I finally got up the nerve to look at the pics and sketches again. Since the most recent presser, in spite of being locked and loaded, several highly active and protective dogs in the house, and security cams/system, I'd been unable to sleep at night anytime I viewed the images. Anyway, when I finally pulled up an image, it was the first image released, the grainy one. I could swear that I can make out 2 people, with the outline of the second person showing at various points around the edge of BG. (No, I've not been smoking anything.) Can anyone else see even the slightest hint of what I'm seeing? Again, please don't laugh too, too hard. TIA

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I think it's possible that the saying they were looking for the car was not what Riley intended to say exactly. I think he meant looking for info about the driver of the car as was said in the PC. We obsess over these details but they don't in the same way. MOO, I have no idea, it just seems that since at the PC they said they are looking for the "driver" and didn't say "and vehicle" that he probably was just not careful with his words today. We've seen that quite a bit in this case MOO.

Also... this mystery vehicle. It's really changed pretty much my whole thinking on this case. Sure, the sketch switcheroo is a big deal, of course, but the fact that BG was mobile, that's a big game-changing bit of info. Bigger than the new sketch possibly. It really came across, to me, in Feb 2017 and for the next two plus years, that they felt BG was most likely someone that passed through and they had no idea where he could be. Remember all the billboards? Remember did you see someone hitchhiking? Remember possible POI's in other states reported to IN LE by the other states? Things like that. And now there's a vehicle "driver" parked nearby and not only that but they are sure this person has connections to Delphi and is somewhere around nearby. I'm not sure what my point is just that the "vehicle" changes so much about this case. For me, anyway. moo

Hindsight is enlightening but thinking that a murderer of two girls that was not from Delphi or surrounding areas arrived and left on foot is a stretch. I mean that would have been a really really brazen individual.

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

Exactly.

ok, you win.

But please remember that there are people here who you don't know who might be in the throes of dealing with a loved one living with Alzheimer's, who maybe aren't ready to use it "as humour." Now or ever.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

If anyone can see even the tiniest possibility of what I'm seeing, I'd be glad to share where I think I see the outline of the 2nd person.

 

[x_files]

First time posting!

<modsnip rumor>
Perhaps, BG in his deranged mind thought they had sinned and he's doing God's work by killing them. It was also rumored, that the other was half naked and looked like BG tried covering her lower half with leaves (ref to Adam and Eve and trying to hide their or his own sin/shame by covering their nakedness in leaves?)

Probably totally off base but just a random thought. Just trying to make the religious reference to the Shack. Perhaps, I'm just grasping at straws .

covering her, maybe knew her or felt shame for what he did?

 

[tresir2012]

Kelsi German (@libertyg_sister) | Twitter

This links to the updated poster which does clarify the hair is reddish brown and eye colour unknown. Height 5'6" to 5' 10", weight 180-220 lbs, age 18-40 but could appear younger.

 

[ocgrad]

It appears they know who owned the car at the time of the murders but these two sentences worry me:

LE states,
"We're still looking for the car that was parked in the lot," Riley told News 18. "If somebody can give us that information, we want that information as quickly as possible."

So, it seems, that LE is looking for the car, itself. I'm wondering where the car is right now. Did someone report it stolen some time during the last few years while, in reality, they actually "ditched" it? If someone sold it or junked it there should be a record of that. Even donating the car to a charity group should leave a clear record as to where the car is now.

I'm assuming LE wants to have possession of the car, as they said, "as quickly as possible" so they can examine it for any forensic evidence that might tie it to the murders before someone can destroy that evidence. If this is true, I hope LE finds the car very quickly.

But, what I really hope (wishful thinking) ... is that LE knows exactly where the car is and they're watching it to see who comes to steal or destroy it and any evidence it might hold... and that's why they told the reporter that,
"We're still looking for the car."
Because they know BG is watching for news updates while chewing up whole rolls of TUMS.

This could all be incorrect. It's theory only and jmo.

I noticed the focus has shifted re the car. At the PC they said they wanted the driver. They said, If you know the identity of the driver or if you parked at the welfare office we want to talk to you. Now they are asking if you can identify the car itself. What does that tell us? Before it seemed like they wanted someone to call and say, "I saw my brother's car there." Now it's enough if someone says, "I saw a white Chevy parked there". Is that because they have a POI who they know drove a white Chevy that day? Doesn't seem like enough evidence to me. If you saw your brother's car, they would ask, "How do you know it was his?", and we all have things that identify a specific car, his rear passenger side had a scrape, or he has a flag sticker over the Chevy emblem, etc. But if you don't know the owner it would have to have something unique, like it had one gray fender or plastic over the rear passenger window or gold rims. Even at that, linking someone to a double murder, they need to know whose car IMO.
It does sound like they must be watching for someone to clean out or even dump a car.

 

[x_files]

have been following since the beginning and now signing up. That was the first time i have seen that vid. TYVM. Is that the welfare building around 5.43 just before the water tower comes into view? If so there is a red car parked there.

Also, i have just watched the heli video (in the media thread first page ) with new eyes - again the welfare building is clearly visible in that too but no vehicles. Also, when the video first begins you see a white pickup parked in what I think is the trail parking area which later can be seen driving off. The vid then zooms into the empty car park. There are also appears to be a couple of maybe journalists walking over a bridge just a short while after the p/up drives off. It is really interesting to look again at these videos after all this time.

Looking at the area using street view is also interesting, 2015 view shows the building there but Dec 2018 shows the welfare building gone, with an excavator on the site. Does anyone know when it was knocked down? Could the perp have taken the girls there before taking them back to where they were eventually found? Could explain why no-one saw them or found them, despite searching from approx 3.15 p.m. onwards.

Also, police were called at 5.30 p.m. i believe. was a list of searchers between 3.15 and 5.30 pm kept by LE as well as afterwards, does anyone know?
Will post some more thoughts.

Did they search the abandoned building when the girls were missing?! I would think to check there in case they went exploring and got hurt in the building or abducted and taken there. If they did not explore/investigate this building that day on the 13th that would have been a real oversight!