Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #99

[ab01]

It’s not cryptic, it’s vague.

They want eye witness accounts.

Law enforcement is putting the pieces together, not us.

You either saw something, know something, or you don’t.

Yah it seems the public has a misconception that LE needs to release details so that the public themselves can solve the case.

Which is ludicrous

They want the public to send in specific information about something they saw that day, or specific information about someone they know.

That’s it, the best way the public can help is just to keep the girls names out there and making people aware of what specific things LE is looking for as stated on the ISP release

Jmo

 

[pepper 34]

They want the public to tell them who was driving a vehicle they won’t describe?

I think they want the people who live in the area or were passing through the area that day to give them information about the car and the driver of the car. LE may already know that was the only car parked there during the time between 12 and 5. So, if anyone saw a car there they probably already know what the car looked like. I think LE would want them to be able to describe the car to verify they're a legitimate witness.

 

[Charlot123]

So what do you guys make of this business about “able to get around quickly”?

I know LE seems to be placing great importance on this vehicle, but I always have wondered about a motorcycle.

—

So, from this statement, assuming he was on foot until he got to the vehicle, this would indicate that he is possibly agile.

An athlete? A runner? Who would be more noticeable, a man on a bike or a jogger?

 

[margarita25]

An athlete? A runner? Who would be more noticeable, a man on a bike or a jogger?

(Well, Israeli Autistic Intelligence could probably figure out his “movements” too, but noooooh, nooobody wants to listen... )

Eta: I hope you guys don’t mind a little levity here. It has been one hell of a couple weeks, I don’t think I’ve left these threads since the PC...my brain is mush. You guys have all I’ve got.

 

[cjack410]

LE was all over this location investigating, check out this video 2:36 point

 

[Falling Down]

I think they want the people who live in the area or were passing through the area that day to give them information about the car and the driver of the car. LE may already know that was the only car parked there during the time between 12 and 5. So, if anyone saw a car there they probably already know what the car looked like. I think LE would want them to be able to describe the car to verify they're a legitimate witness.

I agree 100%. They don't need to give any description, just that there was a vehicle parked there. I know a witness gave a vague description of a vehicle, I wonder if any other people driving by remember anything. I sure hope so.

To iterate something I shared in another thread, in the Iowa case of L&E, LE got a third tip on a vehicle description before releasing any info to the public about the white SUV, and it was 9 months after the girls had been abducted when that info was released.

My guess would be this is part of LE's cat-and-mouse game with BG, now.

Interesting they keep going back to the possibility BG was interviewed at some point, I wonder why? Again, could be part of their "game".

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

So what do you guys make of this business about “able to get around quickly”?

I know LE seems to be placing great importance on this vehicle, but I always have wondered about a motorcycle.

—

So, from this statement, assuming he was on foot until he got to the vehicle, this would indicate that he is possibly agile.

The physical description of this guy, does not make me think that he is in particularly good shape (if the height/weight range is right, he’s heavy).

He didn’t have to be in great shape though.

What he did, didn’t require a great deal of strength or athleticism.

He likely walked in slowly, and walked out slightly faster. I doubt he ran, because that would draw attention to himself.

 

[sumzero]

There’s a strategy here, and a specific reason why they don’t want to feed the public any information regarding the vehicle specifics.

Keeping that a secret, is for some reason, incredibly important.

If they put out a vehicle description, they might get 500 phone calls, and it would be impossible to determine their veracity.

It’s not like you can verify if someone actually did see that vehicle or not.

But if someone calls in and says “I saw a white pickup truck pulling out from that lot at around 2pm that day,” and the vehicle description matches what they’re looking for, then this could prove helpful.

If they think someone will remember seeing a vehicle there after 2+ years with no description whatsoever, good luck. No, instead of there being a super-secret reason for withholding this info, I'll go with a simpler explanation: LE doesn't have this info.

 

[Yvettea]

An athlete? A runner? Who would be more noticeable, a man on a bike or a jogger?

Dressed as he was, he would be less noticeable on a bike. MOO

 

[crhedBngr]

So what do you guys make of this business about “able to get around quickly”?

I know LE seems to be placing great importance on this vehicle, but I always have wondered about a motorcycle.

—

So, from this statement, assuming he was on foot until he got to the vehicle, this would indicate that he is possibly agile.

RBBM

Bringing over the following verbiage from Carter's speech on 04/22/19:

We are confident that you have told someone what you have done or at the very least they know because how different you are since the murders.

Could this "someone" Carter alludes to have picked up the perp right after the crime and helped him leave town? Could this be the driver of the vehicle? If so, this doesn't necessarily indicate premeditation of the crime, but maybe a frantic phone call for transportation out of town after an impulsive double homicide.

Speculation . . . questions . . . very possibly, a wild shot in the dark, per se . . .

Link to Carter's speech from Post #6 of this thread (thanks, @CrimeDawg123 !): Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #99

JMVHO.

 

[MassGuy]

If they think someone will remember seeing a vehicle there after 2+ years with no description whatsoever, good luck. No, instead of there being a super-secret reason for withholding this info, I'll go with a simpler explanation: LE doesn't have this info.

They’re not taking a wild guess that a vehicle was parked at a particular location, at a specific period of time.

This perpetrator could have parked anywhere, yet they are focused on this abandoned building.

There is a reason for that.

They have to have this info.

 

[bodester413]

So what do you guys make of this business about “able to get around quickly”?

I know LE seems to be placing great importance on this vehicle, but I always have wondered about a motorcycle.

—

So, from this statement, assuming he was on foot until he got to the vehicle, this would indicate that he is possibly agile.

That's an interesting thought. If he had a dirt bike he would have been able to get around on all those horse trails. If he was driving a truck he could have parked it in the cemetery or that plowed field that was next to it and put it into the woods then parked his truck someplace else and walked in. Then after the murders use the dirtbike to get back to the truck and throw it in the back and take off. Maybe that's what the person saw that they felt needed to be reported. Someone loading a dirtbike into a truck and driving off quickly.

 

[Charlot123]

(Well, Israeli Autistic Intelligence could probably figure out his “movements” too, but noooooh, nooobody wants to listen... )

Eta: I hope you guys don’t mind a little levity here. It has been one hell of a couple weeks, I don’t think I’ve left these threads since the PC...my brain is mush. You guys have all I’ve got.

This case totally grew on me. (And I only joined Webseluths to find one person who disappeared).

It would be nice if people joked more. Today I saw the girls’ photos...such nice faces. The round cheeks of Libby reminded me of a kid I once knew. And their wide smiles...

And we all understand what has happened, don’t we? The ugliness, the darkness.

Jokes will be good...

 

[Charlot123]

That's an interesting thought. If he had a dirt bike he would have been able to get around on all those horse trails. If he was driving a truck he could have parked it in the cemetery or that plowed field that was next to it and put it into the woods then parked his truck someplace else and walked in. Then after the murders use the dirtbike to get back to the truck and throw it in the back and take off. Maybe that's what the person saw that they felt needed to be reported. Someone loading a dirtbike into a truck and driving off quickly.

What about a scooter or a gyroscooter?

 

[Falling Down]

They’re not taking a wild guess that a vehicle was parked at a particular location, at a specific period of time.

This perpetrator could have parked anywhere, yet they are focused on this abandoned building.

There is a reason for that.

They have to have this info.

Early on, the one witness gave a vague description, says she saw the vehicle between 11:30 and Noon. OK, was her vantage point southbound on IN 25, or as she drove by on 300? She was heading in to Delphi for lunch.

I drove 300 around the same time of day, in August. There was no traffic, I'd imagine it's a nice shortcut from other county roads east of IN 25. Otherwise, very little traffic on that road. Pretty desolate.

On the day in question, many people would have noticed a vehicle parked at the old DCS building. Why "many"? Not people driving by on IN 25 would have noticed it, it would have been fairly easy to conceal a plain-looking vehicle by the old DCS building, relative to IN 25. However, there were people who drove by on 300, and others who parked across IN 25 at the parking area by the Freedom Bridge to use the trail(s). So some would have walked by, and seen the vehicle from the bridge, and the trail. Not close enough for a good description, but close enough to identify it per type of vehicle.

JMO

 

[crhedBngr]

This case totally grew on me. (And I only joined Webseluths to find one person who disappeared).

It would be nice if people joked more. Today I saw the girls’ photos...such nice faces. The round cheeks of Libby reminded me of a kid I once knew. And their wide smiles...

And we all understand what has happened, don’t we? The ugliness, the darkness.

Jokes will be good...

RBBM

Not a joke, but I'll share a memory.

I was out taking my usual walk right after this happened. All of a sudden, a girl, who looked so much like Abby, came running by me with a little dog on a leash. She had the same shape face, hair color, freckles, and was about the same age.

IIRC, Abby was a dog lover.

Sad as I was about this case, seeing this girl made me smile.

Abby and Libby will live forever in our memories.

 

[mtnlites]

They almost certainly know what the vehicle looks like.

If they describe the make, model, and color, people will come out of the woodwork to report seeing it.

It’s possible that they want to know if anyone spotted a person associated with that vehicle.

If a witness can accurately describe the vehicle, then they may have important information about its driver.

They will come out of the woodwork because some people would start combing through FB pictures of random people and turning those people in as "tips" when they see a picture of a car that they think might be it.

IMO they are leaving details out because there is some kind of "story" to go with the vehicle and only someone who's legit can tell it or validate it. IE. the car was leaking oil that day and when John Doe calls in the tip he says, "My cousin borrowed my 92 white Lebaron that day and they must have done something to it because it was down 2 quarts when they brought it back." LE recognizes this as a good tip because there was a big puddle of oil in the parking lot and that was never released to public.

 

[gitana1]

When LE is looking for a vehicle (and, obviously, it's driver), they invariably describe the vehicle. So what if not all tips are helpful? Sorting through tips, good and bad, is what they do. If they worried about getting bad tips, they'd never provide info to the public and seek their help. Shoot, they'd never put a sketch out there either.

But they're not looking for a vehicle. They typically withhold crucial details about things in order to ensure that whatever "tips" they receive are accurate.

They have zero ability to test the veracity of a tip if the public already has all identifying info about a car or COD, etc.

 

[katydid23]

Bodester posted:

That's an interesting thought. If he had a dirt bike he would have been able to get around on all those horse trails. If he was driving a truck he could have parked it in the cemetery or that plowed field that was next to it and put it into the woods then parked his truck someplace else and walked in. Then after the murders use the dirtbike to get back to the truck and throw it in the back and take off. Maybe that's what the person saw that they felt needed to be reported. Someone loading a dirtbike into a truck and driving off quickly.

Charlot Posted:

What about a scooter or a gyroscooter?

I think LE already knows which vehicle he used. It was parked at the abandoned welfare building that afternoon. JMO

 

[7%Reichenbach]

I have just recently discovered WS and after reading pretty much nonstop for the past two days I have decided to write my own post. There are some really good, objective thoughts on here although the wading through muck to get to them can get tiresome. I have followed this case from the beginning, however much more recently since the new sketch has been revealed during the press conference. Please note that all of this post is my own opinion based upon the facts of the case. Anything that is speculation and theory is just that.

· Location

There seems to be little to no discussion as to whether the bridge itself is of some significance in relation to the crime. I believe this location was well scouted by BG leading up to that day. I also believe that aside from the strategic advantages the location held for the commission of the crime that BG chose it because it is an important location to him. BG definitely felt safe at the location. BG could very well have spent significant time there as a youth or is an enthusiast of train history, engineering or architecture.

· BG Profile

I for one am glad the new sketch is out. I never saw the 40s+ suspect in the still picture and definitely do not see him in the video. The newly released sketch looks much more like the man I see in the video. That being said I believe the updated age range of 20s-30s spot on. I see a guy in his mid to late 30s that could very easily pass for mid to late 20s.

I believe BG to be an organized killer. There are too many that seem to correlate brutal murder with disorganization. Yes, the bodies and phone were left at the kill site, but if an organized killer feels he has taken sufficient forensic countermeasures would he bother with trying to hide the bodies further? That may lend credence to him being unaware of the phone. I haven’t been able to determine if the clothes found near the creek and kill site marked on the map in this forum are from BG, the girls, or some third party. If BG left the blue jacket behind he could have thought the creek sufficient to wash away any evidence.

If the clothes belong to the girls it could be indicative of sexual assault. This is about power and control to BG and while possible that sexual assault(s) did occur I don’t believe they did. BG wanted to keep control of the girls while inflicting as much terror as possible. That is his fantasy, that is where he derived his pleasure from. How long could he deprive them of their free will until he decided to take their lives? BG seems very methodical and has meditated upon this act for some time, again pointing to organization.

What appears to be a handgun bulging from BG’s pocket shows premeditation and organization as opposed to disorganized killers frequently choosing weapons of opportunity. The creek itself could be a weapon of opportunity but I don’t think he would have moved them back up into the woods had he drowned them. I do not believe the girls were shot but the handgun was used to ensure compliance. I do not recall which thread it was in but an interview transcript done by CNN and the private property owner has him recalling that on 2/16 the crime scene was blocked off but he couldn’t see any blood in the area again ruling out a gun shot as well as stabbing and blunt force trauma. Also the weather history shows that there was no rain prior to 2/16. So if we rule out the creek and any type of death that has prolific exsanguination we are left with suffocation and strangulation. Again it is all about power and control to BG and those methods have been used by other killers to revive their victims just to repeat it over and over exerting his control until it goes too far.

Another thing that leads me to believe this was highly planned is the Gray Hughes’ crime flow video (not sure if I can link). The timeline is incredibly tight. I do not believe the girls saw BG while on the trail. BG scouted this area so much he had plenty of vantage points to stalk his victims while remaining undetected until absolutely necessary. 1:45 to 2:07 PM, 22 minutes is how long it took the girls to get to roughly the middle of the bridge where BG is clearly not visible yet based on the Snapchat photo. The bridge can be crossed in 5 minutes or less by an adult so lets say two girls taking pictures might reach the end by 2:12-2:17. BG is most likely tucked away in a vantage point close to the barricade waiting for Libby to turn back around after the picture of Abby to make his move onto the bridge. BG was about 60 feet from the end of the bridge when he is in the video. This may very well be the first time the girls notice BG and any comments about him may just be where did that guy come from since the majority of conversation was teen girl talk. If the walk to the shallow creek crossing is roughly 10 minutes that puts them at the kill site at roughly 2:30. I don’t know how much time passes here but it is something BG knows quite well because he has already planned his escape and made dry runs along the creek back to his parking spot at the DPS building. We do know that it is roughly a 35-40 minute walk from the kill site to the DPS building based on previous timeframes and similar distances. That would leave BG with about 20-30 minutes to commit the murders before he had to hoof it back overland along the creek back to the trail without being seen by the aforementioned Cheyenne on the trail as she was arriving since her Snapchat on the bridge was 3:47.

I believe that had a witness passed BG on the trail after the murders their might have been a third victim from a gunshot. This leads me to believe that the witness(es) had seen BG previously on the trail during his scouting expeditions.

BG is a member of the regional community, not necessarily Delphi. Indianapolis is a little more than an hour away and West Lafayette under 30 minutes. That greatly increases the population from just 3000 in Delphi and 20,000 in Carrol County, to well over a million people when considering Indianapolis metro area a mere 80 miles away.

I believe BG to be educated but of average intelligence. The calm and collected nature of his voice when ordering the girls down the hill shows he has played this out in his mind many times before. The level of planning and the efficient manner in which BG executed this crime couldn’t be achieved spur of the moment. BG may be employed in a field that requires task and process management.

· Victims/Motive

BG has stalked this area before. Looking for the right victim or victims combined with the right timing for opportunity to commit the crime unhindered. If BG is in his 20s the girls may have represented a recent time in his life where he felt powerless, impotent and emasculated by repeated rejection amongst his peers.

If BG is in his mid-30s (which I find more likely) these girls could have been proxies for a young woman in BG’s life, possibly a daughter in the 10-15 year age range that he’s lost control of somehow. The victims are tied to the motive somehow. BG wasn’t out there to kill just anybody he had very specific criteria to meet and these girls triggered something in BG.

· 4/22/19 Press Conference

The sheer indignation Carter displays in the press conference along to all the direct addresses to BG leads me to believe BG had interjected himself into the investigation someway somehow. BG may have very well been a member of a search party. I do not think BG would lead anyone to the crime scene but he would want to know when the girls were found. BG could have very easily sat in his vehicle at DPS until news of a search had started and shown up at the fire station ready to help. After the bodies were found BG could have been interviewed like other searchers as Carter alluded to in the press conference. There is a WLFITV news report from 2/14/17 where reporter makes specific mention of a man from West Lafayette that has a daughter the girls age and decided to come help search I got an eerie feeling when considering possible motive for BG especially if his daughter was off school that day too.

I hope some of this makes sense and might open up new trains of thought for some people. I do not mean to be graphic or distasteful in any manner. This case has bothered me from day 1 and I allowed myself time to dig into it. Please be kind and informative if you have facts to refute anything that is opinion or speculation of mine. These girls deserve the best we have to offer and sometimes that means allowing the mind to tread into dark territory, please don’t allow fear to keep your brains from working objectively for Abby and Libby.