GUILTY CO - 1 dead, 8 injured, shots fired at STEM School in Highlands Ranch, 7 May 2019

[cody22]

I too could care less about these two shooter's lifestyle choices or hurting their feelings...Killer freaks is my opinion.......moo

 

[LietKynes]

So tired of losers who resort to murdering people , wounding others physically and emotionally --- and then blaming others for their own incompetence !

Already imagining their defense will be... We did this b/c of : bullying, failure of their school, parents, gov't. etc.
Others have been bullied and failed by people; but they didn't murder anyone.
I'm not saying rude behavior from others is acceptable by any means.

But there is no excuse for slaughtering innocent people.

Rest in gentle peace, Kendrick !
They had no right- no matter what - to take your life.

 

[SouthAussie]

Columbine parents should have been jailed for life too.

Jumping off your post ... it does seem that a law should be introduced, nationwide. If a gun has been stolen and been used in a mass shooting, then the owner is culpable too.
Gun owners have a responsibility to be ... responsible. No more "I didn't know he/she took my gun". Know where your gun is at all times. Lock it up securely when it is not in use. A gun is a killing machine, and although it may be a right to own a gun, it is not a right to be irresponsible with it. It is not a right for your gun to be used to kill, maim, and psychologically scar others due to irresponsibility.

Perhaps, just perhaps, this may deter some children from shooting other children (and adults) - if they are made to be fully aware through teaching that their mum, dad, brother, aunt is going to go down with them, too.

School children have been very well taught to run, hide, fight (thank goodness) but it is time - overdue, in fact - to tackle the reverse end of this horrific problem. That includes the person who has been irresponsible with their killing machine also. imo

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

The second suspect in a Colorado school shooting has appeared in court.

The Latest: Second Colorado school shooting suspect in court

Court records listed the defendant as Maya McKinney, but a public defender said Wednesday that his client uses male pronouns and is named Alec.

McKinney appeared in court shackled at the wrists and ankles. He responded to the judge's questions in a clear but quiet voice, saying, "Yes, your honor" and "No, your honor." His mother sat with him.

District attorney George Brauchler says he hasn't decided whether to file adult charges. He says McKinney is 16, the youngest age at which Colorado law allows prosecutors to file adult charges without a judge's review.

 

[Colorado303]

She was involved in murdering kids in school. Respecting her choice of what sex she identifies as is the last thing i’m worried about.

I hope she gets life.

I agree. And to be clear I respect and support transgender rights. But IMO if someone doesn’t respect human life in general I find it ironic they expect people to respect their personal gender identity. IMO that’s just too damn bad.

This person has not only hurt children and the local community, she’s spit in the face of the entire transgender community who struggle daily with predjudice. Non-trans people are just beginning to understand and accept transgender choices. Sadly her behavior will drive a huge step backwards. She should be ashamed of herself on so many levels. Life, yes. Sympathy — not one iota.

MOO

 

[Colorado303]

Check the scanner thread in the basement. ETA link for you where they talk about her

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...-scanner-alerts-8.400672/page-7#post-15045710

Is there any way to access recorded scanner history?

 

[K_Z]

People who steal lawfully owned guns are thieves and criminals who commit felonies. The people they knowingly steal from are crime victims under the law. People who use stolen guns to commit violent crimes are criminals typically charged with many felonies.

And that should be the same no matter the gender, ethnicity, or socioeconomic status of the crime victims, or the perpetrators. A stolen gun is a stolen gun, whether it's stolen in an upscale subdivision, or in the inner city housing projects.

The parents of these teens are not responsible for the felonies their teenagers quite knowingly committed. We don't hold parents of 17-18 year olds responsible for violent murder and attempted murders that are committed with premeditation by teens who will be considered and charged as adults under the law.

What is certain is that neither of the accused perpetrators in this school shooting was allowed to legally possess handguns.

I think we probably should steer clear of further debates on gun control, or else this thread will likely be closed. The parents of these teens are not responsible under our laws for the actions of these teens.

The teens, and only the teens, are responsible. They planned it. They carried it out. They alone should bear the consequences.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Is there any way to access recorded scanner history?

Yes. If you have a paid membership to Broadcastify you can listen to the archived files. IMO the paid membership is inexpensive and worth it. There have been a few times that I’ve went to go listen and the files were not there. It doesn’t happen very often, but I wanted to give you a heads up.

 

[SouthAussie]

People who steal lawfully owned guns are thieves and criminals who commit felonies. The people they knowingly steal from are crime victims under the law. People who use stolen guns to commit violent crimes are criminals typically charged with many felonies.

And that should be the same no matter the gender, ethnicity, or socioeconomic status of the crime victims, or the perpetrators. A stolen gun is a stolen gun, whether it's stolen in an upscale subdivision, or in the inner city housing projects.

The parents of these teens are not responsible for the felonies their teenagers quite knowingly committed. We don't hold parents of 17-18 year olds responsible for violent murder and attempted murders that are committed with premeditation by teens who will be considered and charged as adults under the law.

What is certain is that neither of the accused perpetrators in this school shooting was allowed to legally possess handguns.

I think we probably should steer clear of further debates on gun control, or else this thread will likely be closed. The parents of these teens are not responsible under our laws for the actions of these teens.

The teens, and only the teens, are responsible. They planned it. They carried it out. They alone should bear the consequences.

In your opinion, of course.
No point tackling the problem through every avenue available, or introducing any laws that may help to ease this ongoing horrific issue.

This is not about gun control per se, it is about being irresponsible - irresponsible enough for your gun to be used in a mass school shooting by your friend or relative.

Out of respect for the thread and the victims, I will not say anything further about this. But it is my opinion, and it is valid.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

What is certain is that neither of the accused perpetrators in this school shooting was allowed to legally possess handguns.

I think we probably should steer clear of further debates on gun control, or else this thread will likely be closed. The parents of these teens are not responsible under our laws for the actions of these teens.

The teens, and only the teens, are responsible. They planned it. They carried it out. They alone should bear the consequences.

I agree completely. Well said.

I agree. And to be clear I respect and support transgender rights. But IMO if someone doesn’t respect human life in general I find it ironic they expect people to respect their personal gender identity. IMO that’s just too damn bad.

This person has not only hurt children and the local community, she’s spit in the face of the entire transgender community who struggle daily with predjudice. Non-trans people are just beginning to understand and accept transgender choices. Sadly her behavior will drive a huge step backwards. She should be ashamed of herself on so many levels. Life, yes. Sympathy — not one iota.

MOO

If we respect and support transgender rights, then we respect their rights to be treated as individuals. I (a straight, cis-gendered person) would never consider the action of another straight cis-person to be a reflection on me. No steps backwards unless the rest of us choose to view it that way. And based on biology/genetics, "lifestyle choice" is not an applicable term. It's not equivalent to giving up your job and following Phish around the country.

But IMO, this is similar to the gun conversation - in the end, this is about the horrific, criminal choices of two individuals who knew better but chose violence.

 

[Colorado303]

Yes. If you have a paid membership to Broadcastify you can listen to the archived files. IMO the paid membership is inexpensive and worth it. There have been a few times that I’ve went to go listen and the files were not there. It doesn’t happen very often, but I wanted to give you a heads up.

TY!

 

[Tippy Lynn]

TY!

The membership is $30/yr

 

[ReadySet]

I must have missed the articles where he was asking for sympathy for shooting because of gender identity?
This will only drive acceptance a huge step backwards if people who lack understanding choose to let it.
We have a choice. If people think less of transgender folks because of what he has done, that is called sterotyping and bias.
Do we think less of old heterosexual white men because of the Las Vegas shooter?
Less of homeschooled Christians becasue of the Texas bombing guy?
Do you think less of all people on the spectrum because some shooters have been on the spectrum?
If not, then the fact that he may be transgender should not cause us to think less of transgender folks because of this.

I agree. And to be clear I respect and support transgender rights. But IMO if someone doesn’t respect human life in general I find it ironic they expect people to respect their personal gender identity. IMO that’s just too damn bad.

This person has not only hurt children and the local community, she’s spit in the face of the entire transgender community who struggle daily with predjudice. Non-trans people are just beginning to understand and accept transgender choices. Sadly her behavior will drive a huge step backwards. She should be ashamed of herself on so many levels. Life, yes. Sympathy — not one iota.

MOO

 

[K_Z]

Maya/ Alec Elizabeth McKinney (MEM) is not old enough yet to change her/ his name and gender legally. I suspect the court will agree to hyphenate the first name in the court records or something, or put Alec in parentheses or something. It's the same as someone with a nickname-- they aren't tried as "Buffy" if their legal name is "Petunia", even if they go by Buffy 24/7 in their private life.

It's one thing for this person to "prefer" a nickname or male name and pronoun in casual society interactions. I get that MEM is identifying as a male, and maybe even undergoing some kind of psych and medical treatment for her gender dysphoria. MEM isn't male under the law. Legally this person is Maya Elizabeth McKinney, a female, which is why it was such a mess yesterday when the sheriff released info about her as a male-- because she appreared to be, and presented as a male.

She will be charged and tried under her legal name-- just like EVERYONE else is-- including Bradley Manning, who subsequent to his charges changed his name to Chelsea Manning. But MEM's attorney will push the name and gender thing from today onward. It is a HUGE distraction from the circumstances of the murders and attempted murders, and helps immensely to portray MEM as a victim of discrimination and bullying.

In fact, I'll predict it will be the #1 basis for MEM's defense. The defense, IMO, will not present MEM as a mentally healthy, competent teen-- but as a very confused, psychologically damaged adolescent. Possibly affected by legal and illegal drugs. Possibly affected by something like testosterone treatment. ANYthing to make MEM less culpable-- that's what the defense must do.

This is probably not an ideal time to try to legally petition to change the name and gender of MEM. The defense will likely petition to have MEM housed with males during the year or 2 of the charging and trial process, and might be successful at that. But I'm guessing MEM will be in solitary for her own safety for quite a while-- weeks to months. At the point MEM turns 18 the legal name and gender change can proceed.

 

[Colorado303]

If we respect and support transgender rights, then we respect their rights to be treated as individuals. I (a straight, cis-gendered person) would never consider the action of another straight cis-person to be a reflection on me. No steps backwards unless the rest of us choose to view it that way. And based on biology/genetics, "lifestyle choice" is not an applicable term. It's not equivalent to say, giving up your job and following Phish around the country.

But IMO, this is similar to the gun conversation - in the end, this is about the horrific, criminal choices of two individuals who knew better but chose violence.

Unfortunately, a lot of the world is not as evolved as you. When it comes to minorities all too often the actions of one reflect on all in the minds of many. Doesn’t mean it’s fair or right but it is what it is. No doubt M(A)M is well aware of the prejudice transgender individuals struggle to overcome every day. Which is why I’m comfortable continuing to fault her for harming the trans community in addition to everything else I fault her for.

I’m already seeing people mitigating her offense because the poor thing was transgender, misunderstood and bullied. She shot up a school for Pete’s sake—that trumps everything else IMO.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

Unfortunately, a lot of the world is not as evolved as you. When it comes to minorities all too often the actions of one reflect on all in the minds of many. Doesn’t mean it’s fair or right but it is what it is. No doubt M(A)M is well aware of the prejudice transgender individuals struggle to overcome every day. Which is why I’m comfortable continuing to believe she spit in the face of her own community.

I totally agree with you. This is a choice, and one we can all call out, every time. We all have a part in changing "the way it is". Every time we do, we reaffirm and support the humanity of our fellow humans. Meanwhile, we hold the guilty responsible for their own crimes.

 

[ReadySet]

Excellent.

I agree completely. Well said.




If we respect and support transgender rights, then we respect their rights to be treated as individuals. I (a straight, cis-gendered person) would never consider the action of another straight cis-person to be a reflection on me. No steps backwards unless the rest of us choose to view it that way. And based on biology/genetics, "lifestyle choice" is not an applicable term. It's not equivalent to giving up your job and following Phish around the country.

But IMO, this is similar to the gun conversation - in the end, this is about the horrific, criminal choices of two individuals who knew better but chose violence.

 

[K_Z]

So this happened because, you think, because this boy was transitioning female to male?

Snipped for focus.

No, I don't think this "happened" solely because MEM was choosing to present as a male, or was "transitioning" or any of that. I think it "happened" because MEM decided to steal a gun and shoot up the school.

It has been written in media articles that MEM was "transitioning" from female to male. We have no idea what that term actually means, or what kind of supervised medical and psychological therapies MEM *may* have been engaging in as part of "transitioning". She may have just decided to change her clothing, name, and appearance to present as male on her own-- we have no idea at this point-- and likely won't have more details for quite some time (if at all).

But IF she is taking testosterone (legal or illegal), that is a big part of the whole picture that will be unquestionably be thoroughly explored by BOTH the prosecution AND the defense. It is both a potential rationale (but not excuse) for aggressiveness and antisocial behavior, and also a treatment for severe disabling gender dysphoria. There is no getting around that.

Exogenous administered testosterone is well documented in the literature to promote anti social and aggressive behaviors. There is no getting around that UNLESS MEM was NOT taking testosterone.

If this goes to trial (no plea), and MEM is taking T, experts on BOTH sides will testify. One side will say it isn't a problem, just an innocuous substance like a little vitamin-- and the other side's experts will say that it produces violent aggression in adolescents.

That's why it's significant. I don't expect to hear details on this (whether or not MEM is taking T) for months, if at all. They need to keep a lid on it until the defense decides how they want to use the information in MEM's defense. Oh, and it's a "medical privacy" thing, too, of course.

 

[Colorado303]

I totally agree with you. This is a choice, and one we can all call out, every time. We all have a part in changing "the way it is". Every time we do, we reaffirm and support the humanity of our fellow humans. Meanwhile, we hold the guilty responsible for their own crimes.

One way to help is to stop talking at all about the shooter’s gender status. It’s irrelevant to the crime. Unfortunatley it seems the press is glomming onto it like a dog w/a bone. And as someone mentioned earlier no doubt defense will be all over it too.

ETA If shooter 2 was taking Testosterone that could be relevant. But ideally that’s where the trans discussion should begin and end IMO.

 

[ReadySet]

bbm No, it is what we choose it to be.

Would you please link the articles your reference? I don't mean social media comments. I mean msm.

So are you saying that when a Jewish or Christian or white or heterosexual person commits a crime like this, you fault them for harming their religious or racial communities? I don't. People don't.
We have a choice. He didn't harm the trans community. The people who think less of trans people because of this are the ones who are committing the harm.

Unfortunately, a lot of the world is not as evolved as you. When it comes to minorities all too often the actions of one reflect on all in the minds of many. Doesn’t mean it’s fair or right but it is what it is. No doubt M(A)M is well aware of the prejudice transgender individuals struggle to overcome every day. Which is why I’m comfortable continuing to fault her for harming the trans community in addition to everything else I fault her for.

I’m already seeing people mitigating her offense because the poor thing was transgender, misunderstood and bullied. She shot up a school for Pete’s sake—that trumps everything else IMO.