Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #100

[ilovechili]

I was in the process of replying when the thread closed Don't know to bring it forward so suffice it to say I was responding to @MassGuy.

I agree that the motivation was almost certainly sexual but I wonder about the possible "connection" alluded to by the previous poster because it has crossed my mind, here and there. Could BG somehow have known the girls or "of" them through a younger sibling or acquaintance? BG had this on his mind for sometime, no doubt. He may not have singled out Abby and Libby necessarily as his target in his mind, but did the opportunity come to him by sheer chance?

It was said somewhere that Libby was calling around for a ride to take them to the trail. Who all did she call? Were either of the girls posting what their plans for the afternoon were on social media or texting friends? The police are looking for someone who can attest to a vehicle being parked in the area in and around 12 p.m., plenty of time to get into position, the ideal location to strike. Maybe I'm reaching here, but I do think it's a possibility that BG knew the girls were going there, knows the area very well, well enough to hide until he found the opportunity to strike when no one was there to witness it. If someone else did show up, he would have abandoned the attempt. Supt. Carter's words directed to the killer were very emotional and purposeful and I can't help but think when he asked the killer what would his family think of him, that he has strong suspicions about who BG is.

Just my random thoughts this evening

Statistically, as some like to go by, it is likely there is a sexual motive to this crime, it does not mean there was, but it is likely. Going by the same type of statistical logical probabilities, most times the perp knows their victim(s), or of them or have watched them, stalked them, etc. There is a well known reason LE starts from the closest people and works their way out. To me, all possibilities are wide open. Statistically, it is a husband, a bf, an ex-, a rejected loner, neighbor, pastor, coach, Bible School teacher, stepparent, cousin's friend, dogcatcher, babysitter, someone from your area who has seen you somewhere whether you are a child or an adult based on what their sick proclivities and thoughts are. Nowadays add online interactions to that with someone you feel is who they say they are but are not (more difficult for a child to discern and even adults fall for it), and there is another possibility. But then again it could have been entirely random and opportunistic. Not quite so sure of that though because it is a small area and they are leaning towards local now.

Agree in other words that all possibilities are wide open and nothing has been excluded I guess I remain open minded on it. He** we have video but two very different sketches based on it and two years in between. One has to wonder.

jmo.

 

[NameUser]

There is something that I can not fathom in this whole situation. It seems that many people assume it is sexual in nature. Supposedly.

But if that is the case, one doesn’t just kill and run. He wants some time with them. For this, the killer left surprisingly little time. And in general, abduction of two teenage girls in broad daylight leaves him zero time. Why not wait till the evening, a single person on the bridge? Makes no sense.

Unless he planned to return back? But he must have known that kids would be searched for.

Your thinking like a rational person(this is a good thing). BG is a non-rational, cowardly, twerp and may have gained some sort of satisfaction from the control or dominance of the situation. I think some people think there was at least an attempted SA because of the scanner thread and other information not in the MSM and not verified other than by the internet.

 

[gitana1]

Stats say most children who are abducted by perps are dead within two hours, if they are killed, I believe. This guy would have had two hours...though he did not need that long. No one was going to start a major search right at the time they did not show up as planned. And if he had them out of sight, which clearly he did, he had time to do what he wanted. It does not take very long to assault a young girl, or even two, if you have them in your power. My guess he was gone within an hour...well before any searching began.

He did not just kill them because they happened to be there. They served a purpose for him, and I can’t think of another reason an adult male murders young girls. It is basically agreed he did not know them. This crime fits a sexual crime in every way, imo. But of course we won’t ever know unless there is a trial one day.

Jmo

It does. You're right. But I'm open to the possibility that like the zodiac killer in CA, he just wanted to kill.

I mean the Zodiac just walked up to couples (mostly) and shot them dead. No sexual assault.

The length of time between the recording and their death (LE stated "minutes" indicates he didn't have much time for a sexual assault.

But I agree that's the usual motive and likely the case here as well.

 

[Onaliv]

There is something that I can not fathom in this whole situation. It seems that many people assume it is sexual in nature. Supposedly.

But if that is the case, one doesn’t just kill and run. He wants some time with them. For this, the killer left surprisingly little time. And in general, abduction of two teenage girls in broad daylight leaves him zero time. Why not wait till the evening, a single person on the bridge? Makes no sense.

Unless he planned to return back? But he must have known that kids would be searched for.

Good point... I remember there being speculation amongst sleuthers that the girls could have been held elsewhere (barn, shack, whatever) and not killed right away, then placed on RL’s property later, before being found. Part of this stems from the girls not being found during the 2/13/17 search which supposedly covered the same site where found the next day. So much of this case makes no sense.

 

[TTF14]

I totally agree. It’s not just likely, it’s overwhelmingly likely.

Agree. And if it was NOT sexual in nature, then it had to be revenge/to silence them. Why would that be? I think it's extremely rare to kill young teens for any reason other than sexual gratification. But rage/anger/revenge could be a motive I suppose.

 

[susiQ]

Just adding my thoughts on some of today's threads. I believe the killer may come and go from the Delphi area (someone who travels frequently for business, a university student etc.) If the murder was about power I envision the perpetrator as someone with anger issues who has had little power over events in his life. I do not believe Abby or Libby witnesses anything as it would likely be videotaped and found. The day before V day may be of significance. It is possible BG could be gay but unable to Express his preference due to being shunned by his family. Do not think drug related. There might be a high level of drug users in Delphi and drug related criminal activity but not high organized crime.

When is Winter Break for University Students in the U.S. typically?

 

[mtnlites]

Wonder how this would effect speech?

I have a very similar issue with mine. Last fall I had all my bottom teeth removed and both top and bottom jaws broken and reset to correct it. The only time my speech was impaired was during the post-op recovery when my jaws were wired together. Growing up, when the problem was much worse, I didn't have any trouble speaking at all. No noticeable list or anything. It mostly just affected the my eating habits. My jaw was constantly locking into place, or dislocating, and the older I got the worse that problem became. That doesn't mean that BG wouldn't have a problem, though. Sometimes it affects people differently.

 

[MassGuy]

Agree. And if it was NOT sexual in nature, then it had to be revenge/to silence them. Why would that be? I think it's extremely rare to kill young teens for any reason other than sexual gratification. But rage/anger/revenge could be a motive I suppose.

I think they were a proxy for his rage.

My guess is that this guy has a major issue with females, and is incapable of a normal romantic relationship with someone his age.

As a result, he hates women. The girls were just in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

 

[Onaliv]

Absolutely he will kill again, theres no doubt in my mind. Perps like him don't just stop, They have to be stopped!

This I am absolutely certain about

Big question for me is has he killed before, and has he killed since? Early on there was a thought that BG was not local, now the current theory is he’s local and hiding in plain sight etc...

 

[K.jill]

I have a very similar issue with mine. Last fall I had all my bottom teeth removed and both top and bottom jaws broken and reset to correct it. The only time my speech was impaired was during the post-op recovery when my jaws were wired together. Growing up, when the problem was much worse, I didn't have any trouble speaking at all. No noticeable list or anything. It mostly just affected the my eating habits. My jaw was constantly locking into place, or dislocating, and the older I got the worse that problem became. That doesn't mean that BG wouldn't have a problem, though. Sometimes it affects people differently.

Ouch! That must have been awful, having both jaws broken and reset. Sorry you had to go thru that!!!

 

[allboys]

I was in the process of replying when the thread closed Don't know to bring it forward so suffice it to say I was responding to @MassGuy.

I agree that the motivation was almost certainly sexual but I wonder about the possible "connection" alluded to by the previous poster because it has crossed my mind, here and there. Could BG somehow have known the girls or "of" them through a younger sibling or acquaintance? BG had this on his mind for sometime, no doubt. He may not have singled out Abby and Libby necessarily as his target in his mind, but did the opportunity come to him by sheer chance?

It was said somewhere that Libby was calling around for a ride to take them to the trail. Who all did she call? Were either of the girls posting what their plans for the afternoon were on social media or texting friends? The police are looking for someone who can attest to a vehicle being parked in the area in and around 12 p.m., plenty of time to get into position, the ideal location to strike. Maybe I'm reaching here, but I do think it's a possibility that BG knew the girls were going there, knows the area very well, well enough to hide until he found the opportunity to strike when no one was there to witness it. If someone else did show up, he would have abandoned the attempt. Supt. Carter's words directed to the killer were very emotional and purposeful and I can't help but think when he asked the killer what would his family think of him, that he has strong suspicions about who BG is.

Just my random thoughts this evening

I think it’s interesting to listen to earlier LE Press conferences. Both because I didn’t follow the case closely in the beginning, and because sometimes I wonder if LE shared more in the early days.

If you start listening at the 15:30 mark to this press conference held on 2/22/17, when reporter is asking something about social media, the LE official states “was it a chance encounter? It’s possible. I don’t think it’s likely, but it’s possible. Or that the person knew they were going to be there. That’s possible as well.”

Now, obviously, this is early in the investigation, and this is an isolated comment, but I’m assuming this LE official knows the details of the crime scene, so I found it interesting that he said he didn’t think it was likely a chance encounter. MOO

* while this is a YouTube link, it is a link to MSM video.

Also, some might be interested to watch Carter’s words in the beginning. He speaks in some similar ways compared to the most recent press conference, which was helpful to see as well.

 

[MassGuy]

Big question for me is has he killed before, and has he killed since? Early on there was a thought that BG was not local, now the current theory is he’s local and hiding in plain sight etc...

The fact that they believe he is local, makes me discount the fact that it is highly unusual for any killer like this, to begin with a double murder.

So I think it’s likely he hadn’t killed before, hasn’t killed since, but remains a very real threat to kill again.

 

[mtnlites]

His chin and jaw are rather prominent in the sketch, but they don't look that out of line to me.

They don't look out of line to me, either. With mine, not only were my jaw and chin prominent, but there was also a noticeable shift to them. My face looked a little off kilter. And I never needed braces, only the orthognathic surgery because my problems couldn't be corrected with head gear or less invasive measures.

 

[Krwiley60]

I agree 100%. The only new information released at the press conference was the sketch (younger BG) and the mention of a vehicle parked at the CPS building lot. Carter directly asked the public for help identifying the driver of that vehicle. I think LE knows who the sketch is, and LE knows who the registerd owners of the vehicle are, but the 'one more thing' they need is for a witness to link the person depicted in the sketch to the vehicle. Either somone in his family or frienship circle needs to out him, or a vigilant member of the public needs to come forward and share a tip about what they saw or heard on February 13, 2017.

Deleted

 

[gitana1]

great .... it s the one that makes the most sense to me

Me too. But at least now that I know where north is I can compare all the maps everyone has done and orient pretty well now I think.

So correct me guys but I think what people believe is that he took the girls from the south end? And across the creek to where they were found?

 

[ab01]

I think they were a proxy for his rage.

My guess is that this guy has a major issue with females, and is incapable of a normal romantic relationship with someone his age.

As a result, he hates women. The girls were just in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

Bingo! profiling 101 IMO

 

[ilovechili]

DBM.

 

[TTF14]

There is something that I can not fathom in this whole situation. It seems that many people assume it is sexual in nature. Supposedly.

But if that is the case, one doesn’t just kill and run. He wants some time with them. For this, the killer left surprisingly little time. And in general, abduction of two teenage girls in broad daylight leaves him zero time. Why not wait till the evening, a single person on the bridge? Makes no sense.

Unless he planned to return back? But he must have known that kids would be searched for.

BBM. Maybe he had no way of knowing his time would be so short? He may have made a wrong assumption they would be there until nightfall.

 

[mtnlites]

The fact that they believe he is local, makes me discount the fact that it is highly unusual for any killer like this, to begin with a double murder.

So I think it’s likely he hadn’t killed before, hasn’t killed since, but remains a very real threat to kill again.

I keep thinking that, once found, he's going to have some kind of violent background. It may or may not have resulted in any arrests, but I bet there will people in his life who could come forward and give examples of things that he's done that were (for lack of better word), scary. JP hadn't killed anyone before Mr. and Mrs. Closs, but there were still some eye-raising anecdotes about him. Not as many as I expected them to find, but some. With BG I could see someone who's gotten in trouble with an employer for losing their temper, perhaps some DV issues with a former partner, maybe an assault charge that may have been later dropped. Something made him feel like he could do this. I don't think whatever that was has gone away.

Sorry, long answer. TLR He may not have any murders in his past, but I bet there is some anecdotal evidence of violence and I believe he could kill again.

 

[LadyL]

True, at this point everything is an assumption but the truth is, most crimes similar to this are of a sexual nature.

Even if BG knew when the girls were heading out there, what he probably did not know to begin with is when they were going to get picked up. It is possible one of the girls even told him in an attempt to make him think twice about killing them as someone was coming to look for them shortly, and he could get caught. This may have angered him and sent even more adrenaline through his poisoned veins. He finally had his opportunity but little time to fulfill his twisted sick fantasies.

As well, I couldn't imagine any single female walking along those trails close to dark. Never. Just not smart. IMHO

(bbm)

who are you referring to
the girls and witnesses were not there close to dark