GUILTY CO - 1 dead, 8 injured, shots fired at STEM School in Highlands Ranch, 7 May 2019

[K_Z]

Yes. In my opinion, all transgender individuals have serious psychological and social disabilities. I think they are born the way they are (except for the ones teens derisively call "trans-trenders") and have no control over their gender confusion. I believe the medical evidence is that these unfortunate people have a disability, or "birth condition" if that is preferred. I don't think they can change how they feel. It's no different, IMO, than any birth defect/ birth condition. They deserve treatment, and compassion. IMO, they deserve societal and workplace protections under the ADA. But not separate civil "rights".

 

[K_Z]

I'm quitting for the night. We're too far off topic, though I appreciate the mostly civil and thoughtful discussion of a difficult and controversial issue. Thank you all!

 

[gitana1]

Awful, how do we stop this?!

Does the President need to mandate security in schools? Things such as metal detectors at all entrances into schools?

I am thinking of years ago when seatbelts were ordered to be in cars. However, it took years for all the states to make it a law to wear them. Gee, my state made it a law early on so have no idea if a federal law eventually mandated for it all states. .

Then they'll probably just pick them off as they exit the school.

 

[airportwoman]

Then they'll probably just pick them off as they exit the school.

About 20 years ago, there was a shooting where the kids pulled the fire alarm and did exactly this.

 

[Gardenista]

Article has been updated w/ new info at the top

Alec McKinney: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

 

[Trino]

Were they aware? If so then yes...

Columbine parents should have been jailed for life too.

Sue Klebold wrote a book about this - A Mother's Reckoning: Living in the Aftermath of Tragedy. After reading the book, I came away with the impression that her son was raised as a normal child with parental involvement. Why he changed remained a mystery. It's worth a read.

 

[mickey2942]

Alex McKinney is actually a female who identifies as a male.

I wonder if he still wants to identify as a male, and go to prison with males. I would suggest a change in self identification, immediately.

 

[Gardenista]

MEM twitter

Login on Twitter

 

[Breezie]

Alex McKinney is actually a female who identifies as a male.

I wonder if he still wants to identify as a male, and go to prison with males. I would suggest a change in self identification, immediately.

U.S. rolls back protections for transgender prison inmates - Reuters

According to this, Alex will be in a women’s prison. The alternative would probably be isolation in a male prison.

 

[mickey2942]

U.S. rolls back protections for transgender prison inmates - Reuters

According to this, Alex will be in a women’s prison. The alternative would probably be isolation in a male prison.

That is federal statute, I wonder what the State of Colorado determines. State law would apply in this case.

 

[Wild Rose]

I go to work in a school. I love my job and I love my students. The times we live in today are not the same as when we were young. Today, if you are bullied, there is no safe place. The bullying follows you 24/7 because of social media. It's easy to say, "stay off the Internet", but that is not a realistic plea. I spend extra time with students that are bullied to keep telling them that they don't deserve this, they are really good, they don't bully people, they hold doors open, they are kind and I think highly of them. Bullying, name calling, socially outcasting publicly, all that is soul crushing. When it is relentless, it becomes unbearable. And the bullies often have higher social standing, better grades, ....of course, I try my best to stop the bullying when I see it, but I try to be the person that shows the bullied person that they are not what they are called, that they are not deserving of the treatment that they are getting. That I see them having wonderful values, I see beyond the differences they have to the inherent goodness in them. The drills that we have are tough. Students are scared. Most of my students are such admirable individuals. These are tough times. There are no easy answers but we need to act honorably, and model kindness and caring. At every opportunity each day. You never know your own impact on others each day. Sorry this is long.

 

[Colorado303]

I go to work in a school. I love my job and I love my students. The times we live in today are not the same as when we were young. Today, if you are bullied, there is no safe place. The bullying follows you 24/7 because of social media. It's easy to say, "stay off the Internet", but that is not a realistic plea. I spend extra time with students that are bullied to keep telling them that they don't deserve this, they are really good, they don't bully people, they hold doors open, they are kind and I think highly of them. Bullying, name calling, socially outcasting publicly, all that is soul crushing. When it is relentless, it becomes unbearable. And the bullies often have higher social standing, better grades, ....of course, I try my best to stop the bullying when I see it, but I try to be the person that shows the bullied person that they are not what they are called, that they are not deserving of the treatment that they are getting. That I see them having wonderful values, I see beyond the differences they have to the inherent goodness in them. The drills that we have are tough. Students are scared. Most of my students are such admirable individuals. These are tough times. There are no easy answers but we need to act honorably, and model kindness and caring. At every opportunity each day. You never know your own impact on others each day. Sorry this is long.

The kids at your school are lucky to have you. I’m glad someone has their back and is working to change bullies’ minds.

 

[mickey2942]

@Wild Rose I wish society would address bullying. Because it happens in the workplace as well.

 

[human]

What difference does it make how one wants to identify as male or female? Apparently to some people they feel it is their right to crucify someone for that.

How kids cope with the hate is beyond me.

 

[apricotpeach]

Sue Klebold wrote a book about this - A Mother's Reckoning: Living in the Aftermath of Tragedy. After reading the book, I came away with the impression that her son was raised as a normal child with parental involvement. Why he changed remained a mystery. It's worth a read.

I listened to the audiobook version a while ago. My feeling was the same. The parents seemed to be attentive/supportive. He seemed to have an average middle class life that somehow turned out very different. Sue Klebold's recounting may be a little biased or have a blindspot, but it wasn't like there were red flags leading up to the shooting. (Of course, with these mass shootings, sometimes there are early indications, sometimes it seems like a shock to everyone).

 

[kaen]

I don't think that Transgender really has any quantitative value in discussing "school shootings", just that this particular school shooter happened to be transgender.

Now, if the last 10 school shooters had been transgender, that would have qualitatively changed the discussion. In this instance, it is just a characteristic of a particular school shooter.

I do think that reducing school expenses and reducing school counselors is a bad choice. Just saying, school counselors have a role, for students to be referred if they are being bullied or identified as having issues.

Thank you for this post. I agree about the topic of transgender and people's opinions on that.

I further agree on the funding of counselors in schools. Many school counselors I know spend most of their time doing mandated counseling and supporting IEP processes. I think the addition of school counselors and social workers could go a long way to helping school climate, especially since so many schools are very large and it is hard to have a pulse on the school culture and the underground culture that exists. Before the adult murderer in this case had his FB and other media shut down, I had read multiple comments where he was called gay in relation to his posts by students who attended his school. No excuse for murder/terrorism but certainly a potential clue about some climate issues.

 

[gitana1]

The biggest mistake is how the media turned them (accidentally) into martyrs/heroes like Natural Born Killers, that movie was a warning that no one heeded. Since then they are held as folk heroes. Everyone that feels alienated, bullied and a misfit holds them as heroes.

It's true. And the media can make the changes we need to see to stop this. The media decided to stop showing the end of police chases close up because people would kill themselves on camera. They didn't have to. They also decided not to rebroadcast any suicides anymore.

And they don't typically publish dead bodies in general. At least not of American citizens.

That was after a notorious case in which a newspaper published a photo of a dead child. I think burnt.

It was horrible.

I'm not advocating any censorship laws and I think the names of these cowards should be available to anyone who seeks it.

But we need to change as a culture and make a societal pact not to give these creeps anymore of this type of publicity.

Oh and calling them "killers"or "gunmen" just amps up the next one.

They should be called cowards.

Release information related to age, where they're from, gender, fine, but no publication of manifestos and no names.

Make them invisible and I think mass shootings would dry up quite a bit.

 

[gitana1]

So the "why" appears to be centered on bullying, at least toward the 17 yr old. The 18 yr old?

I don't believe the parents will be held responsible for the 18 yr old, since he is an adult. Does he understand the implications of killing someone, wounding 8 others? He's about to confront reality. Facing jail instead of post high school will be a real wake-up call. Hope he enjoys taking college courses inside the walls.

You mean prison! His life is over. It's murder.

I often wonder when is the exact moment when reality hits for these murderers. When they realize that the supposed "solution" to the hell they were in created and even greater and more endless hell for themselves.

 

[gitana1]

In your opinion, of course.
No point tackling the problem through every avenue available, or introducing any laws that may help to ease this ongoing horrific issue.

This is not about gun control per se, it is about being irresponsible - irresponsible enough for your gun to be used in a mass school shooting by your friend or relative.

Out of respect for the thread and the victims, I will not say anything further about this. But it is my opinion, and it is valid.

It is valid. And I agree. Parents who enable troubled kids to have access to dangerous weapons should be charged with child neglect.

As long as it can be shown they knew there was a problem and allowed access anyhow. Like the Newtown coward's mother.

 

[gitana1]

I agree completely. Well said.




If we respect and support transgender rights, then we respect their rights to be treated as individuals. I (a straight, cis-gendered person) would never consider the action of another straight cis-person to be a reflection on me. No steps backwards unless the rest of us choose to view it that way. And based on biology/genetics, "lifestyle choice" is not an applicable term. It's not equivalent to giving up your job and following Phish around the country.

But IMO, this is similar to the gun conversation - in the end, this is about the horrific, criminal choices of two individuals who knew better but chose violence.

Straight, cisgender people are part of the majority (unless they come from a religious or ethnic minority group). It is only when people who are part of a minority group commit a crime that it negatively effects the reputation of the group as a whole, in a way that matters.