Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #15 *ARREST*

[kate2931]

Surely 90 witnesses for crimes of his manner is unprecedented in recent English legal history ?

Will they all appear ? Or statements read ?

I’m sure there will have been hundreds of witnesses for trials/inquests such as Hillsborough and terrorist atrocities but 90 for voyuerism, trespass, exposing etc ..

I know there are a fair few charges but it’s still a hefty amount.

I’m impressed with LE for this. Are LE hoping this many witnesses will increase the likelihood for a harsher sentence ?

If sadly, for whatever reason, we can’t make a homicide charge stick for Libby then will the pending trial and punishments PR receives go someway to a small amount of justice ? Probably not, but it sounds like LE are doing everything they can.

Perhaps a lengthy prison sentence may mean PR eventually blabs..

Still holding out hope that although sadly Libby has still not been laid to rest, she will provide a clue that means a homicide charge will arise.

Thinking of Libby & family every day x

 

[Mind your biscuits]

Surely 90 witnesses for crimes of his manner is unprecedented in recent English legal history ?

Will they all appear ? Or statements read ?

I’m sure there will have been hundreds of witnesses for trials/inquests such as Hillsborough and terrorist atrocities but 90 for voyuerism, trespass, exposing etc ..

I know there are a fair few charges but it’s still a hefty amount.

I’m impressed with LE for this. Are LE hoping this many witnesses will increase the likelihood for a harsher sentence ?

If sadly, for whatever reason, we can’t make a homicide charge stick for Libby then will the pending trial and punishments PR receives go someway to a small amount of justice ? Probably not, but it sounds like LE are doing everything they can.

Perhaps a lengthy prison sentence may mean PR eventually blabs..

Still holding out hope that although sadly Libby has still not been laid to rest, she will provide a clue that means a homicide charge will arise.

Thinking of Libby & family every day x

Well, with 90 witnesses they could probably pick out his private parts in a line up! Joking of course. Moo

 

[JosieJo]

@JosieJoe PR sounds a real slippery eel.Making all those witnesses that have bravely come forward ( 90!) be put through the ordeal of appearing in court.Hats off to them all for stepping up.Brave souls who like everyone here want justice.
With so many witnesses surely it's not possible for PR to avoid jail time for some of the charges? Even if remand time is taken into account?

I agree I doubt he will get a not guilty no matter how much his face has been out there
But the defence imo will have a field day regards a fair trial

 

[JosieJo]

Although I doubt many are for the defence..the 90 witnesses are for both defence and prosecution

 

[Newthoughts]

I agree I doubt he will get a not guilty no matter how much his face has been out there
But the defence imo will have a field day regards a fair trial

It's being heard in Sheffield. Outside of Hull there won't be much detailed interest. He'll get a fair trial for this.

 

[Newthoughts]

Surely 90 witnesses for crimes of his manner is unprecedented in recent English legal history ?

Will they all appear ? Or statements read ?

I’m sure there will have been hundreds of witnesses for trials/inquests such as Hillsborough and terrorist atrocities but 90 for voyuerism, trespass, exposing etc ..

I know there are a fair few charges but it’s still a hefty amount.

I’m impressed with LE for this. Are LE hoping this many witnesses will increase the likelihood for a harsher sentence ?

If sadly, for whatever reason, we can’t make a homicide charge stick for Libby then will the pending trial and punishments PR receives go someway to a small amount of justice ? Probably not, but it sounds like LE are doing everything they can.

Perhaps a lengthy prison sentence may mean PR eventually blabs..

Still holding out hope that although sadly Libby has still not been laid to rest, she will provide a clue that means a homicide charge will arise.

Thinking of Libby & family every day x

It is just my opinion but I still think he had an accomplice. I think it was planned enough to make it difficult for LE. But he won't get away forever and hopefully this will hold him in jail till they can get justice.

Until the end of October we remain part of the European arrest warrant so if he did have an accomplice that has fled hopefully we can still cooperate.

Those are just opinions.

I'd guess unprecedented for a simple flasher case. LE have a lot. And don't forget we don't know what other charges there are

 

[JosieJo]

It's being heard in Sheffield. Outside of Hull there won't be much detailed interest. He'll get a fair trial for this.

Not that I think he will get away with it but I'd imagine the defence will point out at length how his face was all over the press which may effected witness perception..not so much about whether the people of Sheffield will have in depth knowledge

 

[kate2931]

Well, with 90 witnesses they could probably pick out his private parts in a line up! Joking of course. Moo

 

[kate2931]

It is just my opinion but I still think he had an accomplice. I think it was planned enough to make it difficult for LE. But he won't get away forever and hopefully this will hold him in jail till they can get justice.

Until the end of October we remain part of the European arrest warrant so if he did have an accomplice that has fled hopefully we can still cooperate.

Those are just opinions.

I'd guess unprecedented for a simple flasher case. LE have a lot. And don't forget we don't know what other charges there are

Or even if more charges will be added in due course!

I share your concerns about the fleeing possibility. If PR is eventually released from serving time for these charges and before they can pin anything on him relating to Libby, I think a PR in post brexit Britain will be extremely hard to find in Poland if needs be.

 

[EricaAmbrose1]

I agree but they can't charge someone with murder just because it's not likely to be someone else.

They would have to have definitive proof it was him to bring charges not just the likelihood that it was him.

It's still a homicide investigation so who knows what is happening behind the scenes but it's been a long time now if they had 100% proof right now that PR was responsible for her death IMO I think charges would have come.

Perhaps it's still the long protracted waiting for forensics to reveal cause of death .

 

[Joolz1975]

Perhaps it's still the long protracted waiting for forensics to reveal cause of death .

I hope so.

 

[EricaAmbrose1]

Why does it take so long (weeks to months) for post-mortem toxicology test results to to be available? - Quora

 

[Armchair_Defective]

It is just my opinion but I still think he had an accomplice. I think it was planned enough to make it difficult for LE. But he won't get away forever and hopefully this will hold him in jail till they can get justice.

Until the end of October we remain part of the European arrest warrant so if he did have an accomplice that has fled hopefully we can still cooperate.

Those are just opinions.

I'd guess unprecedented for a simple flasher case. LE have a lot. And don't forget we don't know what other charges there are

Just my opinion...to counter yours! but I don't think an accomplice theory holds any water for 2 reasons,
1) The crimes P is accused of are solitary pursuits. It's really just about unheard of for someone to collaborate with someone else on these types of crimes.

2) Police have had months to go through phone records, emails, friends and associates of P and we're supposed to think they suspect someone else but have kept it quiet? I just can't buy that. If there was another suspect but he fled there would be still be appeals surely?

 

[Winterbells]

Interesting that in this article today, the police use the term 'unexplained' about the death of a man found in a wheelie bin. I guess because there are no signs of injury, they can't be certain (at this stage) that he didn't climb into the wheelie bin and die.

“At this stage, the death is being treated as unexplained...."

This confirms to me that using the term "homicide" when classifying Libby's death, (as we've been saying, I know) must mean that somehow the police are certain that someone killed her.

Murder probe after body 'in designer clothes' found in wheelie bin

 

[JosieJo]

Interesting that in this article today, the police use the term 'unexplained' about the death of a man found in a wheelie bin. I guess because there are no signs of injury, they can't be certain (at this stage) that he didn't climb into the wheelie bin and die.

“At this stage, the death is being treated as unexplained...."

This confirms to me that using the term "homicide" when classifying Libby's death, (as we've been saying, I know) must mean that somehow the police are certain that someone killed her.

Murder probe after body 'in designer clothes' found in wheelie bin

Although I'm not sure on this at all ..but I would have thought the circumstances surrounding a death have a bearing on the investigation type as well as findings in PM
For example..even if the PM is inconclusive it's very likely in libbys case someone caused her death some way or another as she was presumably picked up and taken somewhere.
In the same way that in the case linked it's a murder investigation but the death is unexplained

 

[Newthoughts]

Just my opinion...to counter yours! but I don't think an accomplice theory holds any water for 2 reasons,
1) The crimes P is accused of are solitary pursuits. It's really just about unheard of for someone to collaborate with someone else on these types of crimes.

2) Police have had months to go through phone records, emails, friends and associates of P and we're supposed to think they suspect someone else but have kept it quiet? I just can't buy that. If there was another suspect but he fled there would be still be appeals surely?

The accomplice is just my opinion. But to counter your first argument - I don't necessarily agree that sexual attacks and homicide are always solitary sadly. The case of Kayleigh Heywood - two people were involved there. Two charged with rape, one with murder. There are rumours that others were involved when Levi Belfield kidnapped and killed Milly Dowler. More recently Saheed Rasoolli and Araz Abdulla were jointly charged with rape.

Voyeurism and flashing do seem to be solitary crimes I agree, but how often is somebody charged with both? Isn't one or the other more usual? So PR seems atypical there. And he has very good luck in knowing just where to flash / look. Very lucky in his choices of house to burgle as well. How?

He has been charged with receiving stolen goods - so could know other criminals. He stole lap tops as well as sexual items which would be good to sell. So links to dodgier folk is possible.

The other reasons I give are there was debate about whether she could have got from the river in the park to where she was found without being seen despite a large police presence searching local rivers. I wonder if it's possible she wasn't placed in water where LE were searching. I'm thinking she'd have been found earlier is my biggest reason for thinking there is an accomplice.

There is the Croda CCTV which police attached importance to. I think it could be relevant

The fact Spidercam is edited to omit PR getting out of his car for some reason. Why? Calling someone perhaps?

Other odd things that made me think. What little we know in the public domain combined with the seriousness of the crime makes me think LE could charge PR with something related but haven't yet.

I think it's unlikely Libby escaped one sexual offender only to fall into the path of another. So what possible things could hold things up. Forensics showing she entered the water at a different location? Forensics showing she didn't enter the water that night? Evidence of rape (if any survived) showing more than one perpetrator?

Subtle changes in LE language. Abduction to kidnapping for example.

Searches of phones take time. Assuming you even have the phone. Then making sure you don't alert suspects until you have enough evidence is tricky. Especially if you think they could flee the country.

On your side I think PR would have given names to exonerate himself. Maybe he has?

All just my opinions.

 

[Winterbells]

Although I'm not sure on this at all ..but I would have thought the circumstances surrounding a death have a bearing on the investigation type as well as findings in PM
For example..even if the PM is inconclusive it's very likely in libbys case someone caused her death some way or another as she was presumably picked up and taken somewhere.
In the same way that in the case linked it's a murder investigation but the death is unexplained

Oops, sorry, JosieJo, I had competely overlooked that they're calling it a 'murder' investigation. Ignore all that I've said, please.

 

[EricaAmbrose1]

Interesting that in this article today, the police use the term 'unexplained' about the death of a man found in a wheelie bin. I guess because there are no signs of injury, they can't be certain (at this stage) that he didn't climb into the wheelie bin and die.

“At this stage, the death is being treated as unexplained...."

This confirms to me that using the term "homicide" when classifying Libby's death, (as we've been saying, I know) must mean that somehow the police are certain that someone killed her.

Murder probe after body 'in designer clothes' found in wheelie bin

My friend spoke to a retired LE tonight about this enquiry .The word homicide the retired LE man believes it's just an Americanism. it's either murder or manslaughter here but until either one is proven the word is used perhaps so not to prejudice the enquiry at this stage just his opinion . For what it's worth he believes PMs take so long now because there are fewer and fewer coroner's ?

 

[cluciano63]

Have they said they are still waiting on a PM? If so, seems ridiculous for a case that is suspicious. Time is everything when there is a chance of a crime.

 

[Newthoughts]

My friend spoke to a retired LE tonight about this enquiry .The word homicide the retired LE man believes it's just an Americanism. it's either murder or manslaughter here but until either one is proven the word is used perhaps so not to prejudice the enquiry at this stage just his opinion . For what it's worth he believes PMs take so long now because there are fewer and fewer coroner's ?

Yep. Forensics were privatised a few years ago and like the railways and v every other pubic service that has gone down that route, they've suffered.