Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #101

[Wells]

To the best of my knowledge, LE has never asked if anyone saw the vehicle at the trail on a different day (month, time, etc). Which leads me to believe, BG wasn't there often or suspected to have been there often. If LE suspected that he had made repeated visits to the park, looking for ANY victim they would, IMO, be asking for people to place him and or the vehicle there on other occasions and they're not. IMO, while he may have had prior knowledge of the park, he was there that specific day because he knew one or both of those girls were going to be there.

 

[ilovechili]

True. I sure wouldn't be crossing that bridge. Fear of heights and also rotting wood That's why I keep coming back to, what if he by chance came across info of the girls heading out that way? Had they discussed "crossing the bridge" which their friends or posted something to that effect on SM, what some might consider risky or a bit of a teenage thrill? I just think back to some of the more risky things I and my teens friends did way back when that I would never do now.

I tend towards the same types of thoughts. It has been mentioned it sounds like they had been asking to go out there for a time. If it was that important to them, I could see it being overheard or there being a reason or known by someone they knew or separated by a few degrees. Had one or both of them been scared to cross it prior and maybe bragged they were going to? Had someone dared them to go do it, made light fun of them for being afraid to (or one of them) and they said, guess what we are going to on such and such a day or today and will prove it kind of thing? I think even the "hey guys" could be taken as he knew them or they knew him, etc. Like an "I told ya maybe I will see ya there so you can prove to me you walked it if I get a chance?" Even if all of that is not the case, I still think the perp could have had one or both of them in his sights before that day. I also think definitely SM could have played in or just trusting natures in a small town and openly speaking of plans.

This age is such an age of many things including an age when creeps start noticing you before you are old enough to be wise to it or know what it means. You feel it, you notice it but you do not understand it. It is an age where some people you trusted as a child start to give you a different vibe. Most females can verify this, parents' friends, the husband or bf of someone you babysit for, etc.

I then tell myself though that if they knew him then someone would have recognized him too but they did have the wrong sketch... That also brings me back to the thought someone or at least one person did recognize him but they were so sure that person was not a likely perp due to his position, family or some such.

My other questions (today at least lol) revolve around thoughts like if he had no way of knowing anyone would be on the bridge would he have have pulled a gun, etc. and forced whoever he found in the park, any female, onto the bridge and across it? Was his plan always to get them to the side of the bridge where he took them from to kill them? Or would he have herded someone not on the bridge in another direction and not onto the bridge at all...?

The mention of wanting to be in forensic science etc. kind of sticks with me as well. I explored as a child always looking for a mystery, spent summers doing it with a neighbor or a sibling, etc. When you grow up reading books like the Hardy Boys, Nancy Drew or Trixie Belden lol, well look I am on here now I will not sidetrack into detail but we probably happened onto and found places we should not have as children in hindsight when parents tended to think children could not get in trouble rurally exploring trails and woods but it was a different era but many in small town areas think their town is still that safe place of their youth when raising their own children until something happens to show otherwise....

Like you, if I think of the things I did as a child and the risks we took with adult hindsight now...

Just talking out loud so to speak. Jmo.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Is today the day?

Soon I think!

 

[HockeyMom330]

MOO only a few details have to be wrong to say it's "inaccurate." But who knows which one is or what parts are etc.

I value GH's videos and the perspective they give, but I do agree that unless he has insider information from LE, there is no way to be certain that his crime scene flows are accurate. For example, we don't know for sure if the 2:07pm SnapChat of Abby on the bridge was actually taken at 2:07pm (placing Abby on the bridge at that time) or if it was taken earlier and just posted at that time. Maybe the girls were on a trail or sitting on a park bench at 2:07pm. Also, since it only takes about 5 minutes to cross the bridge, maybe the girls went back and forth a couple of times before encountering BG or spent some time at the SE end. Although LE implies that it was Libby who made the recording of BG (and they might know this for a fact based on what they have viewed on her phone), we don't really know for sure. Maybe Libby took a photo of Abby on the bridge (the SnapChat) and then passed the phone off to Abby so she could take some photos of her?

 

[MistyWaters]

Just curious, but if this is true, what LE says about the re-enactment videos being inaccurate (and I have no reason to doubt what they say), why are some of these videos (GH in particular) allowed on this thread? Seems counterproductive to me. JMT's

I think re-enactment may refer to other videos involving actors role playing scenarios that occurred after DTH. I didn’t notice anything in GH’s videos that would lead to false tips at all. Have you?

 

[ilovechili]

To the best of my knowledge, LE has never asked if anyone saw the vehicle at the trail on a different day (month, time, etc). Which leads me to believe, BG wasn't there often or suspected to have been there often. If LE suspected that he had made repeated visits to the park, looking for ANY victim they would, IMO, be asking for people to place him and or the vehicle there on other occasions and they're not. IMO, while he may have had prior knowledge of the park, he was there that specific day because he knew one or both of those girls were going to be there.

I am open to all theories because why not, we truly have nothing to exclude most theories. I can say though that I lean the way you do as well, I think one or both were specifically targeted.

On another day though, I can flip that and think someone saw them dropped off...

The only absolute I have is that he knew the area and knew it like a local imo.

Edited to fix typos.

 

[JenniD]

Is it known if A &L had crossed that bridge before? What if they were afraid to cross back over it and BG said I will show you another path-down the hill.
Does anyone remember something about a guy on the day they disappeared who was walking or sitting in his car and someone asked if he needed help-his reply was no-my dad is coming. I can’t remember where I read that and I don’t do SM so I know it wasn’t there. Maybe I watch too much ID

 

[susiQ]

I tend towards the same types of thoughts. I also think definitely SM could have played in or just trusting natures in a small town and openly speaking of plans.

This age is such an age of many things including an age when creeps start noticing you before you are old enough to be wise to it or know what it means. You feel it, you notice it but you do not understand it. It is an age where some people you trusted as a child start to give you a different vibe. Most females can verify this, parents' friends, the husband or bf of someone you babysit for, etc.

The mention of wanting to be in forensic science etc. kind of sticks with me as well. I explored as a child always looking for a mystery, spent summers doing it with a neighbor or a sibling, etc. When you grow up reading books like the Hardy Boys, Nancy Drew or Trixie Belden lol, well look I am on here now

Like you, if I think of the things I did as a child and the risks we took with adult hindsight now...

Just talking out loud so to speak. Jmo.

Respectfully snipped for brevity and focus.

You bring up some very insightful thoughts. In the last day I got to thinking about them being off school. Teachers, school volunteers, supply teachers, were also off school. Not focusing just on that but, hey, at this point everyone is suspect to a degree. They are in a position of trust. Their paths may have crossed, a brief encounter in a classroom, hallway and then overhearing the girls plans of something they intended to do on their day off school. Maybe something they'd never done before, exciting, or never on their own. Maybe Libby expressing her desire to get some "good pics" on the bridge as she loved photography.

I really see your point about someone they would have trusted as a child, however, in the background in their life. We generally trust our educators, pastors, older brothers of friends, or family acquaintances. Maybe they didn't even pick up on "different vibes", but they were getting older, developing and someone was targeting that age group and became aware of their plans. I think people will be very surprised when his identity is exposed. I do hope that is in the near future, because if he feels he's totally duped everyone, he will strike again.

Just some random thoughts.

ed: to clarify

 

[MistyWaters]

I value GH's videos and the perspective they give, but I do agree that unless he has insider information from LE, there is no way to be certain that his crime scene flows are accurate. For example, we don't know for sure if the 2:07pm SnapChat of Abby on the bridge was actually taken at 2:07pm (placing Abby on the bridge at that time) or if it was taken earlier and just posted at that time. Maybe the girls were on a trail or sitting on a park bench at 2:07pm. Also, since it only takes about 5 minutes to cross the bridge, maybe the girls went back and forth a couple of times before encountering BG or spent some time at the SE end. Although LE implies that it was Libby who made the recording of BG (and they might know this for a fact based on what they have viewed on her phone), we don't really know for sure. Maybe Libby took a photo of Abby on the bridge (the SnapChat) and then passed the phone off to Abby so she could take some photos of her?

One of the values of GH’s videos IMO is it gives people a visual opportunity to understand the physical characteristics of the terrain, including height and length of the bridge regardless of any theories about the timing of the crime. Often a bridge only goes over water and so for example, it illustrates why a couple under the bridge near the river wouldn’t be anywhere near other people standing at the end of the bridge.

He also has debunked several “sightings” of the perp in Libby’s photo because days later the shapes within the trees are still there.

IMO his efforts have served to educate and therefore minimize rumours and speculation, rather than instigate it.

 

[susiQ]

I think re-enactment may refer to other videos involving actors role playing scenarios that occurred after DTH. I didn’t notice anything in GH’s videos that would lead to false tips at all. Have you?

No, I can't say that I have.

 

[JenniD]

My mind is on a roll today. I believe it was said that Libby took a class at Purdue in regard to forensic science. Was that an online class or did she physically go to a class. Have they checked the other people in that class. Could the perp have known at least one of the victims from that class?

 

[susiQ]

To the best of my knowledge, LE has never asked if anyone saw the vehicle at the trail on a different day (month, time, etc). Which leads me to believe, BG wasn't there often or suspected to have been there often. If LE suspected that he had made repeated visits to the park, looking for ANY victim they would, IMO, be asking for people to place him and or the vehicle there on other occasions and they're not. IMO, while he may have had prior knowledge of the park, he was there that specific day because he knew one or both of those girls were going to be there.

You've got my vote

 

[cluciano63]

Jmo not sure why anyone would take any Youtube video as fact. Especially when LE have dismissed them.

 

[MistyWaters]

I wonder how much wasted time LE has spent on this case because of vindictive leads?.....

“Some people were putting photos next to the sketch because of personal grievances, Riley said.

“It was just somebody getting back at that person, like an ex-boyfriend or an ex-husband or ex-girlfriend. Or two guys that got into it and wanted to (hurt each other), and that doesn’t help us at all. It actually puts a hindrance on the case itself, just because we have to look at those leads and follow up on them.”

Police would get calls from business owners asking if the people being linked to the case on social media were actually being investigated. But because of the investigation, Riley said, authorities couldn’t answer.

“Business owners are on there and seeing ‘Joe Blow is a suspect in the murder case.’ But he’s not a suspect. A person saw someone on the street (and) took a picture.”...”
Why a Pennsylvania woman started a Facebook group to help find a missing Indianapolis baby

 

[cluciano63]

I wonder how much wasted time LE has spent on this case because of vindictive leads?.....

“Some people were putting photos next to the sketch because of personal grievances, Riley said.

“It was just somebody getting back at that person, like an ex-boyfriend or an ex-husband or ex-girlfriend. Or two guys that got into it and wanted to (hurt each other), and that doesn’t help us at all. It actually puts a hindrance on the case itself, just because we have to look at those leads and follow up on them.”

Police would get calls from business owners asking if the people being linked to the case on social media were actually being investigated. But because of the investigation, Riley said, authorities couldn’t answer.

“Business owners are on there and seeing ‘Joe Blow is a suspect in the murder case.’ But he’s not a suspect. A person saw someone on the street (and) took a picture.”...”
Why a Pennsylvania woman started a Facebook group to help find a missing Indianapolis baby

I think this happens in most cases. Even when a sketch is not shown...people calling in to “blame” a neighbor, etc...

 

[ab01]

My mind is on a roll today. I believe it was said that Libby took a class at Purdue in regard to forensic science. Was that an online class or did she physically go to a class. Have they checked the other people in that class. Could the perp have known at least one of the victims from that class?

I'm not entirely sure. I believe it may have been some type of summer enrichment program for youth. They seem to offer many such camps that have a focus in various areas of interests. one being cyber forensics

JMO

Youth Programs | GERI | Purdue University College of Education

 

[wgram]

My mind is on a roll today. I believe it was said that Libby took a class at Purdue in regard to forensic science. Was that an online class or did she physically go to a class. Have they checked the other people in that class. Could the perp have known at least one of the victims from that class?

BBM I too found that interesting. I wondered the same thing.

 

[Boxer]

To the best of my knowledge, LE has never asked if anyone saw the vehicle at the trail on a different day (month, time, etc). Which leads me to believe, BG wasn't there often or suspected to have been there often. If LE suspected that he had made repeated visits to the park, looking for ANY victim they would, IMO, be asking for people to place him and or the vehicle there on other occasions and they're not. IMO, while he may have had prior knowledge of the park, he was there that specific day because he knew one or both of those girls were going to be there.

Yes.
And there was an incident in 2010 on CR 300 in front of RL's that has never had the attention it needs.
It is hard to dig it out of the Comet, but its a police calls entry. Since I have lost and found several times I would appreciate help if someone has a link.

IIRC in 2010 Naked woman in road screaming for police and help in 2010. The responding deputy is still Delphi deputy.


I have always thought there needs to be a full search of the whole creek area with cadaver dogs, the ones they use to uncover the long dead and buried, the ones they use to uncover civil war dead.

 

[MistyWaters]

Jmo not sure why anyone would take any Youtube video as fact. Especially when LE have dismissed them.

LE has also asked several times that SM not create rumours or participate in speculation but that doesn’t seem to stop it.

“The girl’s deaths quickly became an unsolved mystery thrust into the national spotlight. While police continue their search for the girls’ killer, people are coming up with their own theories about who did it and often sharing those theories – along with photos of potentially innocent people – online.

Although Indiana State Police say they know the people they call “internet detectives” mean well, their speculations and rumors on social media can do more to hinder the investigation, than to help it...”
Delphi: Officials say Internet rumors can hurt investigation

 

[MistyWaters]

I think this happens in most cases. Even when a sketch is not shown...people calling in to “blame” a neighbor, etc...

Yes and I suppose this is another reason LE is prevented from revealing information. How easy would it be for a malicious person to invent an entire set of facts to fit around the details to attempt to falsely frame someone...he told me, I overheard, etc. Neighbour is out of their hair and the tipster is $200k richer.