CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #19

[Karinna]

Did he remove the ratchet, and only used the tie down strap? Was the rachet found in the grave too?

I always thought it was to transport. I think he loaded Joey's wrapped body last, and put his body wrapped like a rug on top of the other 3 victims underneath.

Tia

Imo

BBM, I don't think the metal ratchet parts were removed according to this testimony
(quote)
We recovered
that. Red straps, like a tie-down strap that was faded.
Q What do you mean by a tie-down strap?
A If you ever transport something in a truck, you usually
tie it down with a ratchet strap.
Q So, a ratcheting-type tie-down strap, as opposed to just
a piece of rope that you would tie something down with?
A Correct. It appeared to be faded at the time. And there
was a female extension cord socket. It was white in color.
Q Just the socket part, or more of the extension cord
itself?
A It appeared if it had been cut off of an extension cord,
just the female socket part.
State of California VS Charles Ray Merritt: Part One - Transcript of Charles Merritt Preliminary

 

[shannon.spike.1]

Hey guys. Since its been quiet here for a couple hours thought I would ask opinions on the wedding dress box. And the mess of clothes upstairs. Thoughts? I struggle with this.

I personally believe CM ransacked the clothing upstairs looking for money and valuables.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Imo if the license plate was caught people would still doubt it was his truck.

LOL! of course.

I can see it now spreading like wildfire across social media!

The vast conspiracy of CM being framed would now widen out even further.

Now that bad old DK would not only be accused of swooping into Fallbrook incognito, but stealing CMs license plate without his knowledge, and putting it on a truck exactly like the one CM drove. Then DK rushed back to put it back on CMs truck before leaving Fallbrook heading back to Hawaii.

JK! JK! JK! lol!

Imo

 

[travelbug]

These pictures are from PM and are from CM truck in 2009/2010 and are red tie down straps like the ones Maline showed in Joseph's truck in court today.

LOOK at the picture of the shop CM worked in and parked his truck in. You can see

his truck parked in the shop along with some fountains and when you LOOK at the RED ARROWS you can see the same red tiedown straps or the same type and color that belonged CM.

I completely understand what you are saying and I am sure CM had tie down straps that looked liked the ones at the gravesite. The picture is taken prior to any of us realizing that tie down straps would be used in such a heinous manner. What is different in this picture is this marker is hanging roughly 2 feet beyond the back of the truck bed and has no long ends to secure it to the vehicle. I have no doubt it is Chase’s truck, and from a different angle there might even be parts of the load secured with straps I just don’t believe it helps the PT to support their side if their evidence can disputed. I zoomed in on the picture and studied it before noticing the location and length.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I personally believe CM ransacked the clothing upstairs looking for money and valuables.

True, but he may have taken the wedding gown box to throw evidence in it including Summer's purse, and their cell phones. He may have even thrown other bloody items in it before leaving

I've always felt before crushing all of their skulls in he put large thick absorbing towels or something similiar over their heads that wouldn't create a bloody scene or back spatter.

I remember another case where a 15 or 16 year old female killed both of her parents.

Before killing them she put on her large long bathrobe on backwards to shield herself from getting blowback blood spatter on herself before she fired the 12 gauge shotgun killing them both. Thank goodness LE found her pink robe she had discarded in a outside trashcan.

Imo

 

[Longtimenoc]

True, but he may have taken the wedding gown box to throw evidence in it including Summer's purse, and their cell phones. He may have even thrown other bloody items in it before leaving

I've always felt before crushing all of their skulls in he put large thick absorbing towels or something similiar over their heads that wouldn't create a bloody scene or back spatter.

I remember another case where a 15 or 16 year old female killed both of her parents.

Before killing them she put on her large long bathrobe on backwards to shield herself from getting blowback blood spatter on herself before she fired the 12 gauge shotgun killing them both. Thank goodness LE found her pink robe she had discarded in a outside trashcan.

Imo

I remember that case Ocean. She had planned in advance. I believe Merritt had also planned in advance, maybe he used the special box as a special send off.
The mess upstairs. What could he have been looking for if in fact it wasnt just the usual mess? Keys? A phone? He couldn't have just been looking for loose change unless he was out of gas.
The PT displayed pictures of the play houses upstairs. What was the significance? I hope that they bring it up in the closing arguments.

 

[Chelly]

Hey guys. Since its been quiet here for a couple hours thought I would ask opinions on the wedding dress box. And the mess of clothes upstairs. Thoughts? I struggle with this.

The family hadn't officially moved in. They were painting/remodeling the house. Not much furniture. They were essentially living out of boxes. Their focus was on getting the work done and not tidiness. Plus caring for two young boys. I can easily see stuff being pulled out of boxes, tossed around, not neatly arranged.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I remember that case Ocean. She had planned in advance. I believe Merritt had also planned in advance, maybe he used the special box as a special send off.
The mess upstairs. What could he have been looking for if in fact it wasnt just the usual mess? Keys? A phone? He couldn't have just been looking for loose change unless he was out of gas.
The PT displayed pictures of the play houses upstairs. What was the significance? I hope that they bring it up in the closing arguments.

Me too.

If a 15 or 16 year old teen knew how to prevent back spatter from getting on herself ...then a two time seasoned ex felon sure can figure out the best way to murder his victims when planning to bludgeon them all to death..

I imagine while in prison they all sat around bragging about the best way to murder people, and not leave a bloody scene. Imo.

Was Joey's wallet ever found? Tia

Imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

BBM, I don't think the metal ratchet parts were removed according to this testimony
(quote)
We recovered
that. Red straps, like a tie-down strap that was faded.
Q What do you mean by a tie-down strap?
A If you ever transport something in a truck, you usually
tie it down with a ratchet strap.
Q So, a ratcheting-type tie-down strap, as opposed to just
a piece of rope that you would tie something down with?
A Correct. It appeared to be faded at the time. And there
was a female extension cord socket. It was white in color.
Q Just the socket part, or more of the extension cord
itself?
A It appeared if it had been cut off of an extension cord,
just the female socket part.
State of California VS Charles Ray Merritt: Part One - Transcript of Charles Merritt Preliminary

Thank you.

I'm still not sure the rachet itself was in the grave. I still have to watch that testimony, but the pic Tortoise put up yesterday where they had displayed the strap it just showed both ends without the rachet.

I may have missed the pic of the rachet though.

Imo

 

[Force Ten]

The picture Bobcat supplied is not Chase's truck. Chase had an enclosed, fully contained bed. And the rack is totally different. Here are other shots of the same truck.It does appear to be a flag though.

The defense is really reaching on these straps. Using the strap in the dodge as a way to identify the truck in the video is beyond me. It's utterly preposterous. Like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and turn to the jury and say "See? It totally fits!".

One last desperate move.

 

[Tortoise]

I remember that case Ocean. She had planned in advance. I believe Merritt had also planned in advance, maybe he used the special box as a special send off.
The mess upstairs. What could he have been looking for if in fact it wasnt just the usual mess? Keys? A phone? He couldn't have just been looking for loose change unless he was out of gas.
The PT displayed pictures of the play houses upstairs. What was the significance? I hope that they bring it up in the closing arguments.

The significance of the play houses was the toy dinosaur bones on the carpet next to them. Susan told detectives that the boys would play at home hunting for dinosaur bones using the mini-pick (and I'm presuming the paint brush for brushing the bones) which were items found inside the child's backpack in the grave. Those items from the home in the grave link the murders to the house. One theory could be Gianni was wearing the backpack when he was killed, or blood spattered on it, meaning it had to be disposed of with the bodies.

My own theory as regards the clothes being tossed on the floor is that Merritt knew they had plastic boxes in the house because he helped them move. He'd also been upstairs helping pump up the air mattresses because they hadn't had their furniture delivered from the pods. I think he transported the bodies in plastic boxes. The children in smaller ones and Summer in the wedding dress box. I think he could have easily picked up the kids one by one, and Summer for that matter if he had knocked her unconscious, and carried them to the bath tub to kill them and then put them in boxes to transport, washing away the blood afterwards and removing towels used in the clean up.

There is a bleached mark on the carpet near the front door in the shape of the outline of a box.

MOO

 

[Mony Mony]

The significance of the play houses was the toy dinosaur bones on the carpet next to them. Susan told detectives that the boys would play at home hunting for dinosaur bones using the mini-pick (and I'm presuming the paint brush for brushing the bones) which were items found inside the child's backpack in the grave. Those items from the home in the grave link the murders to the house. One theory is Gianni was wearing the backpack when he was killed, or blood spattered on it, meaning it had to be disposed of with the bodies.

My own theory as regards the clothes being tossed on the floor is that Merritt knew they had plastic boxes in the house because he helped them move. He'd also been upstairs helping pump up the air mattresses because they hadn't had their furniture delivered from the pods. I think he transported the bodies in plastic boxes. The children in smaller ones and Summer in the wedding dress box. I think he could have easily picked up the kids one by one, and Summer for that matter if he had knocked her unconscious, and carried them to the bath tub to kill them and then put them in boxes to transport, washing away the blood afterwards and removing towels used in the clean up.

There is a bleached mark on the carpet near the front door in the shape of the outline of a box.

MOO

Would those boxes fit in the hidey hole in CMs truck? The hidey hole did not seem very large lengthwise. IMO

 

[Karinna]

Thank you.

I'm still not sure the rachet itself was in the grave. I still have to watch that testimony, but the pic Tortoise put up yesterday where they had displayed the strap it just showed both ends without the rachet.

I may have missed the pic of the rachet though.

Imo

Well if the picture Tortoise posted up had just the strap then the metal ratchet bit was missing?

 

[missy1974]

I completely understand what you are saying and I am sure CM had tie down straps that looked liked the ones at the gravesite. The picture is taken prior to any of us realizing that tie down straps would be used in such a heinous manner. What is different in this picture is this marker is hanging roughly 2 feet beyond the back of the truck bed and has no long ends to secure it to the vehicle. I have no doubt it is Chase’s truck, and from a different angle there might even be parts of the load secured with straps I just don’t believe it helps the PT to support their side if their evidence can disputed. I zoomed in on the picture and studied it before noticing the location and length.

I don't believe this is Chase's truck. This was discussed a few months ago. The back box is completely different, and it wasn't all white back then either IIRC.

 

[missy1974]

Thank you.

I'm still not sure the rachet itself was in the grave. I still have to watch that testimony, but the pic Tortoise put up yesterday where they had displayed the strap it just showed both ends without the rachet.

I may have missed the pic of the rachet though.

Imo

I don't think there was a ratchet in the grave site, but I do recall something about a metal hook. I will see if I can go find a picture from testimony of the hook.

I am not 100% sure, but it looks like there is some sort of black metal ring or hook on the one from the truck as well from yesterdays photo.

ETA: a photo of E12 from testimony, red straps with hook. This is the only photo I can find of the strap with the hook showing.

 

[Tortoise]

Would those boxes fit in the hidey hole in CMs truck? The hidey hole did not seem very large lengthwise. IMO

Maybe he did a test run when he moved them into the house.

I don't remember if we've had measurements of the inside of the truck but bodies can be bent over while they are limp - I don't imagine the boxes were full body length.

MOO

 

[smr]

Imo if the license plate was caught people would still doubt it was his truck.

If the license plate was caught it may show it's not CM's truck. Maybe that's why the footage could have been edited by one of those who were contacting Mitchley causing her fear. We don't know exactly what version(s) of the footage the LE got and which version was used by PT.

These pictures are from PM and are from CM truck in 2009/2010 and are red tie down straps like the ones Maline showed in Joseph's truck in court today.

LOOK at the picture of the shop CM worked in and parked his truck in. You can see

his truck parked in the shop along with some fountains and when you LOOK at the RED ARROWS you can see the same red tiedown straps or the same type and color that belonged CM.

BBM, Good point if PM took the photos? He would certainly know the difference if that was a tie down strap or not.

BBM:

PM is not a witness, no evidence, no testimony.

I have no idea, however, I don't think Patrick would intentionally be misleading.

 

[Mony Mony]

Maybe he did a test run when he moved them into the house.

I don't remember if we've had measurements of the inside of the truck but bodies can be bent over while they are limp - I don't imagine the boxes were full body length.

MOO

Thanks. I was wondering more about how "tall" the hidey hole was. I agree, I believe the 4 bodies could be shoved in there, just not sure it accommodate a box.

 

[Longtimenoc]

The family hadn't officially moved in. They were painting/remodeling the house. Not much furniture. They were essentially living out of boxes. Their focus was on getting the work done and not tidiness. Plus caring for two young boys. I can easily see stuff being pulled out of boxes, tossed around, not neatly arranged.

I've thought about that too. But it seems more ransacked than messy. You would think that the adult clothes would have been a little tidier. Hoping that the PT touches on this at the end.

 

[Longtimenoc]

The significance of the play houses was the toy dinosaur bones on the carpet next to them. Susan told detectives that the boys would play at home hunting for dinosaur bones using the mini-pick (and I'm presuming the paint brush for brushing the bones) which were items found inside the child's backpack in the grave. Those items from the home in the grave link the murders to the house. One theory could be Gianni was wearing the backpack when he was killed, or blood spattered on it, meaning it had to be disposed of with the bodies.

My own theory as regards the clothes being tossed on the floor is that Merritt knew they had plastic boxes in the house because he helped them move. He'd also been upstairs helping pump up the air mattresses because they hadn't had their furniture delivered from the pods. I think he transported the bodies in plastic boxes. The children in smaller ones and Summer in the wedding dress box. I think he could have easily picked up the kids one by one, and Summer for that matter if he had knocked her unconscious, and carried them to the bath tub to kill them and then put them in boxes to transport, washing away the blood afterwards and removing towels used in the clean up.

There is a bleached mark on the carpet near the front door in the shape of the outline of a box.

MOO

Oh my what a terrifying thought, that Summer could have been carried out in the wedding dress box. No words.