Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #102

[puppyraiser]

I found some additional information pertaining to the girl's discovery (contained in the media thread), while our Mods were reviewing posts:

2 bodies found positively ID'd as missing teens

Two bodies were found by volunteers on Tuesday less than a mile from where the girls were originally dropped off. The bodies were found on private property, about 50 feet from the shore of Deer Creek. Sources tell Call 6 Investigates that a set of footprints are what led volunteers to the area the bodies were found.

And the following information about who/and again how discovery was made:

The Delphi Murders — Unresolved

The search crews gathered near the Monon High Bridge at around 10:00 AM, hoping to expand outwards in separate directions and cover a good plot of land during daylight hours.

This search only last a couple of hours, however, as a discovery was made by the Delphi Fire Department shortly after noon. At around 12:45 PM, officials with the fire department had followed a set of footprints to a location roughly 50 feet away from the north bank of Deer Creek - roughly half-a-mile east of the bridge. The Delphi Fire Chief reported the discovery as "not good," and indicated that it was the missing girls' bodies.

Re: the bolded part about footprints: Wouldn't LE have made casts of the footprints as part of standard crime scene investigation and then determined the type of footwear of a possible POI? The type of footwear COULD possibly be the one thing that helps someone come forward if they aren't sure and are holding back. I realize the footprints may have nothing to do with the crime but they could also be a MAJOR lead.

Was the person who relayed the deer story part of the fire department search group or was he the neighbour of RL who was shown in at least one news video? Did he follow footprints?

 

[Charlot123]

Being a pathetic coward, who has been hunted for 2 years now and certainly is afraid of "loss of honor" and of course afraid of going to prison for the rest of his life, he has probably become even more dangerous than he ever was. IMO

^^^

This

 

[MassGuy]

What I wonder is with all the energy, excitement, drama and hope with the PC, why would they go on GMA to say we have nothing? Another strategy? I’m baffled.

Sometimes it’s important to get in front of the cameras, even if you have nothing new to say.

It’s a way to keep this case alive, via national news coverage.

They just want to keep people talking about this case.

 

[BNA]

Here is a question I think LE should be asking the public: "Think back to the days leading up to Valentine's Day, 2017. Did you lend your car out to somebody who told you their car was down and they needed to get somewhere to procure a gift for somebody? If so, what was the make, model, color of car that you lent out?"

 

[Finnamin]

Yes, that is the question, isn't it? Why was it never released, put aside in favour of a sketch involving a few people 5 months later. Makes absolutely no sense to me.

I have lurked on a few cases here and finally opened an account to respond to the sketch question, which has been on my mind.

There doesn’t have to be a complicated reason for LE not putting out the sketch at the beginning of the case. What if the new (old) sketch was originally dismissed because the “something that needed to be reported” just did not seem like it could be related to this crime? It has never been stated when or where this took place. Maybe it was across town or 15 miles away at 3:30 p.m.? MOO Now new or unearthed information indicates that BG did in fact “get around quickly” after the murders so the two could be linked after all.

I wonder what type of “something that needs to be reported” resulted in it being enough to have a sit down with a sketch artist. The only one we know of that was done very early on. Erratic behavior? Burning something or rummaging through a dumpster? Coming out of a bathroom with cuts and scrapes?

MOO The timing and location of the incident and the lack of other sightings of a younger looking guy near the trail could have caused the sketch to be shelved.

 

[TTF14]

I have lurked on a few cases here and finally opened an account to respond to the sketch question, which has been on my mind.

There doesn’t have to be a complicated reason for LE not putting out the sketch at the beginning of the case. What if the new (old) sketch was originally dismissed because the “something that needed to be reported” just did not seem like it could be related to this crime? It has never been stated when or where this took place. Maybe it was across town or 15 miles away at 3:30 p.m.? MOO Now new or unearthed information indicates that BG did in fact “get around quickly” after the murders so the two could be linked after all.

I wonder what type of “something that needs to be reported” resulted in it being enough to have a sit down with a sketch artist. The only one we know of that was done very early on. Erratic behavior? Burning something or rummaging through a dumpster? Coming out of a bathroom with cuts and scrapes?

MOO The timing and location of the incident and the lack of other sightings of a younger looking guy near the trail could have caused the sketch to be shelved.

Welcome!! And, I agree. I theorized several weeks ago that maybe the "something that needed to be reported" was even something like someone coming forward to say "I met a stranger off Grindr for some NSA sex in this park that day....here's what he looked like....I don't know his name and have no clue where he went when we were done, but I know he parked at the abandoned building...." And then that account was dismissed because.....who knows why.... (I still am loosely holding onto this theory)

 

[susiQ]

I have lurked on a few cases here and finally opened an account to respond to the sketch question, which has been on my mind.

There doesn’t have to be a complicated reason for LE not putting out the sketch at the beginning of the case. What if the new (old) sketch was originally dismissed because the “something that needed to be reported” just did not seem like it could be related to this crime? It has never been stated when or where this took place. Maybe it was across town or 15 miles away at 3:30 p.m.? MOO Now new or unearthed information indicates that BG did in fact “get around quickly” after the murders so the two could be linked after all.

I wonder what type of “something that needs to be reported” resulted in it being enough to have a sit down with a sketch artist. The only one we know of that was done very early on. Erratic behavior? Burning something or rummaging through a dumpster? Coming out of a bathroom with cuts and scrapes?

MOO The timing and location of the incident and the lack of other sightings of a younger looking guy near the trail could have caused the sketch to be shelved.

Welcome Finnamin!
Appreciate your perspective on this, but until I understand "why" they shelved it (which they will probably never reveal) I remain perplexed

 

[tmar]

I have lurked on a few cases here and finally opened an account to respond to the sketch question, which has been on my mind.

There doesn’t have to be a complicated reason for LE not putting out the sketch at the beginning of the case. What if the new (old) sketch was originally dismissed because the “something that needed to be reported” just did not seem like it could be related to this crime? It has never been stated when or where this took place. Maybe it was across town or 15 miles away at 3:30 p.m.? MOO Now new or unearthed information indicates that BG did in fact “get around quickly” after the murders so the two could be linked after all.

I wonder what type of “something that needs to be reported” resulted in it being enough to have a sit down with a sketch artist. The only one we know of that was done very early on. Erratic behavior? Burning something or rummaging through a dumpster? Coming out of a bathroom with cuts and scrapes?

MOO The timing and location of the incident and the lack of other sightings of a younger looking guy near the trail could have caused the sketch to be shelved.

Welcome Finnemin, with your first great post.
We are wondering, why the recent sketch took a long time to be presented.
Your ideas are very feasible.
MOO.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I have lurked on a few cases here and finally opened an account to respond to the sketch question, which has been on my mind.

There doesn’t have to be a complicated reason for LE not putting out the sketch at the beginning of the case. What if the new (old) sketch was originally dismissed because the “something that needed to be reported” just did not seem like it could be related to this crime? It has never been stated when or where this took place. Maybe it was across town or 15 miles away at 3:30 p.m.? MOO Now new or unearthed information indicates that BG did in fact “get around quickly” after the murders so the two could be linked after all.

I wonder what type of “something that needs to be reported” resulted in it being enough to have a sit down with a sketch artist. The only one we know of that was done very early on. Erratic behavior? Burning something or rummaging through a dumpster? Coming out of a bathroom with cuts and scrapes?

MOO The timing and location of the incident and the lack of other sightings of a younger looking guy near the trail could have caused the sketch to be shelved.

Welcome Finnamin!

I also think that statement “something that needs to be reported” is very important. My thinking is that somebody helping out after the murders...and I’m sure there were lots of people helping, with LE, with the families, with the media, parking, with churches, schools, etc...but somebody saw or heard somebody else, also helping out, doing or saying something suspicious. I don’t think the sketch was misfiled. I think it was dismissed by local LE as being somebody they knew and could vouch for.

 

[Finnamin]

Welcome!! And, I agree. I theorized several weeks ago that maybe the "something that needed to be reported" was even something like someone coming forward to say "I met a stranger off Grindr for some NSA sex in this park that day....here's what he looked like....I don't know his name and have no clue where he went when we were done, but I know he parked at the abandoned building...." And then that account was dismissed because.....who knows why.... (I still am loosely holding onto this theory)

Thanks for the welcome! Yes, there are many possibilities when so little has been released about both the witness and the incident. Obviously it is key to the new direction the investigation is taking (along with the car). LE must have a good reason for keeping it under wraps. I just hope it is enough for LE to get the tips they need.

 

[Finnamin]

Welcome Finnamin!

I also think that statement “something that needs to be reported” is very important. My thinking is that somebody helping out after the murders...and I’m sure there were lots of people helping, with LE, with the families, with the media, parking, with churches, schools, etc...but somebody saw or heard somebody else, also helping out, doing or saying something suspicious. I don’t think the sketch was misfiled. I think it was dismissed by local LE as being somebody they knew and could vouch for.

Thanks for the welcome! I would love for your thoughts to be correct because that would mean LE does have a suspect and just needs evidence. I’m afraid I don’t have that same feeling.

 

[Charlot123]

I'm just an amateur, and not at all calling anyone out, but I am going to go through the Delphi Community High School yearbooks from around 2015 to the present.

Not a bad idea but the person is 20-30 so i’d start with somewhat earlier time, 2010?

And one thing - I do suspect that there might be similar types of faces in Delphi, as it is a small town and people are related.

 

[susiQ]

Calling it a night! My brain is fried

 

[mtnlites]

Yup, and that witness/those witnesses will likely take their knowledge of this heinous crime to their graves with them. Are they likely worried sick that, to offer the information that they do have to LE, it would mean an instant loss of job/income, as well as respect in a very small community (where they have likely lived a long-ish time, to establish such a "good name")? Guessing the answer to that question would be a shaking, upset, nervous "Yes".

Might they also be worried for their own lives, were they to actually reveal the "missing puzzle pieces" (known only to them)? Yes, absolutely. Their lives have changed dramatically since Feb. 13, 2017 -- but they have been doing their best at trying to just "carry on" as if nothing earth-shaking had just unglued their world(s).

Maybe someone in the Delphi area/general small towns nearby Delphi could make a list of the various families/couples they know in the area, and ponder whether or not they've seen/noticed key changes in someone/several individuals who may be the suspect's parents or grandparents.

Another indication of a dramatic event may be the appearance of depression or of a new need to spend time alone or away/removed from people (a very tough thing to accomplish when working in a people-type occupation -- MOO). Thinking in particular right now not so much of the suspect, but of his family member(s) with whom he may live (or at least with whom he may "check in" from time to time).

Who knows? Maybe the suspect's parents/grandparents themselves needed a "quick fishing trip" to be away, and to "get out of Dodge" due to the "heat" of having to field many questions (and not at all "easy" questions, either).

It's not a bad idea to think about these things but for people in Delphi to make "lists" that starts becoming dangerously close to having a witch hunt. It's also a good way to get people to pointing fingers at each other and to have it become some kind of vindictive blame game. It's not too far away from looking up pictures of random people on FB and comparing pictures to BG's sketch. I can guarantee that if people in my town started making "lists" of who was acting weird and stuff then my family would be pretty near the top of it. Even strangers going through old yearbook photos and comparing the images to BG's makes me a little nervous. Lots of people look like him.

IMO this is for LE to investigate, not the regular citizens of Delphi.

 

[sunshineray]

Yes, that is the question, isn't it? Why was it never released, put aside in favour of a sketch involving a few people 5 months later. Makes absolutely no sense to me.

What if that first sketch was recognizable to them, they check out that person and were satisfied with their explanation for being seen there (could have been after the murders but before the police were called) or their alibi was trusted. Now there left with a handful of people who are describing another man collectively, with lots of shared similarities.

 

[Dontknow?]

So many post point to a previous POI for mental condition, theory, opinions. I can't shake it. Any suggestions?

 

[Boxer]

Thanks for the welcome! I would love for your thoughts to be correct because that would mean LE does have a suspect and just needs evidence. I’m afraid I don’t have that same feeling.

I read somewhere that the police withheld the COD and MOD to deny the killer satisfaction of hearing about it in media.
Really glad they did that.

Getting rid of a false description is huge.

Somehow, I reallu think they will this solved now.

 

[sunshineray]

I think ISP's change of strategy, their change of approach is key. They mention strategy then talk right at the killer saying you never thought we'd do that, change our point of view. You're a local hiding in plain sight, we've probably interviewed you and those who know you more than once. You could be in this room right now. You like to be in control and you want to know what we know.

ISP was saying you thought we were looking for a vagriant type, you're not that. You thought we were looking for someone on the outskirts of our society, outside the "good" citizens of our community, you're within it. You thought we were looking for someone unknown who we hadn't talked to, we have talked to you and those who know you well. You thought we were looking for someone hiding, you're not, you're very visible. You thought we were looking for a wild card and you're anything but that, you have an identity here amoung us. We know this now and you can wonder and stew at what else we know.

Then ISP goes even further and brings in religious shaming and throws that right at him too. Publically accusing him of being a moral degenerate, because he pretends every day to be the opposite?
Just thinking outloud again. Sorry if it's redundant.
Edit: AJMO

 

[peel]

I notice that there is a reference to a "set of footprints"......one set?.....that lead to the bodies?.......did the SOB carry the bodies?...did he murder them elsewhere?....

see, there are so many inconsistencies with this case.....with so little info out there, and some out there that may not even be true, the public is left to spin their wheels.....

so frustrating.....

 

[MNT]

Here is Kelsi's telling of the story of the shoe and the deer. She wasn't close enough to the site to make any reference to footprints:

At 7.30 in the morning, we had all went back out to search.
We went into separate parties, the fire department split us up into groups.
...
Three of us chose to cross the bridge to look underneath the bridge on the opposite side.
Um , and that’s where I ended up hearing that we found the bodies.
...
I was standing on the trail that’s right under the bridge looking out into the woods and somebody yelled up that they had found a shoe.
And when they had found the shoe they asked what kind of shoes the girls were wearing, and they yelled up the type of shoe that Libby was wearing.
So I yelled down and told them that.
Actually then the person that had asked that had put up their phone and saw two deer in the ground moving.
And so he was looking to see what might be, and he saw two deer standing up there, and he saw them, he moved the camera down, and that’s when we found them.
...
I wanted to run towards them but the girl who was with me in my group held me down and told me we don’t know who they are yet ...​

It's from the Infamous Indy podcast