Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

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Absolutely.
It's been more than two years since Liberty German and Abigail Williams were killed, but investigators continue to hold onto hope, saying they are just "one tip" away from finding their killer.

“If somebody knows something, they need to tell us," ISP Superintendent Doug Carter said. "I think they’re afraid to — it's why we have not heard yet — I think they’re afraid to.”....”

ISP: We're 'one tip away' from solving Delphi murders

What Carter has stated, about somebody being afraid to come forward, I don’t think is helpful at all. It comes across as if he’s pulling a reason from thin air to justify why this case remains unsolved, a shade away from blaming someone unknown.

If he truly felt somebody was afraid to come forward this would’ve been a perfect opportunity for him to mention various reassurances hoping to reduce their fear, ie confidentiality, ask to contact him personally, police would ensure protection, etc.

Considering he already made a dramatic appeal to the suspect, why isn’t he also addressing the unknown and fearful person he thinks has that “one tip”?

I am really tired of hearing LE talk about that”one last tip”. It was the main focus of the PC at the first anniversary, and also the second anniversary, and the centerpiece of every interview, statement and update since then. It does seem like I remember them at the first anniversary PC saying something that hinted at “we can protect you” to whoever might call in a tip. I’ve heard nothing like that since then, which I also think is weird, especially since recently, LE keeps saying people aren’t calling in because they are scared.
I also agree with you about LE flirting with blaming others for the case not being solved. To be clear, the killer is the only one responsible for the girls’ deaths, but LE is the only ones responsible for this not being solved. The second anniversary PC miffed me because it seemed to be nothing but a moment to pat themselves on the back....for what? That was not cool.
 
Been going over early articles and I just can't fathom something.

At midnight on Feb 13th this was said,

"Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby say there is no reason to suspect foul play or to believe the girls are in immediate danger."

You have two young girls missing for 6 1/2 hours while hiking in a rural and in some places treacherous terrain, they're not answering phone then phone goes dead, it's getting colder, how in the heck can you make that statement? And then call off the search for darkness!? Did they really think they were off somewhere joyriding or had walked to a friend's house and we're having a good time at 12 midnight and not bothering to tell their parents where they were, 13 and 14 years old girls who's whole history pointed to the opposite being true?

Sorry for rehashing this, just seems so wrong to me. God Bless Libby, Abby and their families </3


For starters, the park is in a rural setting but it's not exactly out in the middle of nowhere. We're not talking about 150 acres in the Klondike. It's just a few minutes from downtown and, technically, you could actually walk to Abby's house from the park. (I wouldn't, but you could.) It's not very big, either. Also, while it's hilly and uneven in places, I'd not refer to it as "treacherous." My kids have been playing in it since they were toddlers. For the most part it's pretty flat, except in a few places where the bank's high and, of course,down around the creek. Where it DOES become dangerous is when you're trying to walk around after dark and can't watch where you're stepping. That's when accidents happen there.

The town had never seen a double murder of children before. So to answer your question, yes. They thought the girls were off someplace else. That wires were crossed and they got another ride, perhaps. They initially started searching because they (as in LE and the families) thought that one of the girls perhaps got hurt and they couldn't make it to the meeting point. They were looking for 2 girls, one possibly injured, but both living. They weren't searching for bodies. It's easy enough to walk around and call out their names. They were expecting to hear something back. It does not take long to walk from one end of the park to the other. When they did NOT hear anything back, the feeling was probably that the girls simply weren't in the park. If they'd been there, they'd have either heard or seen them. Since they did not hear or see them, they assumed that the girls were no longer there. There are other ways of searching at that point: calling all the friends, other family members, checking hospitals, etc.

In addition, while the official search was called off for the safety of the searchers, it's not like everyone packed up and went home. There were still people out looking.

The girls' families have not issued any complaints about how the search was handled on the 13th.
 
I had to google the details now because what made me think about what I posted in my post above was the case "Mirco" in Germany, a 10 year old boy who was killed in 2010. I can't find any links in English, but a witness saw a certain type of car near the crime scene. And then they looked through 240,000 cell phone data protocols and after 133 days found one phone that moved in the same way that they thought the perp would have moved with his car. And it fit with the car that the witness saw. And that's how they caught him.

I think I remembered that case now because there was a car involved as well that the police knew about.

Fall Mirco: Handy-Daten führten laut Chefermittler zum Mörder - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Panorama

(link in German)

OMG That is fantastic! I mean horrendous about the poor child. I love they found the perp. I will definitely look into this case. Thank you so very much!
 
I don't know about the laws in the US, but see my previous post about the boy in Germany who was killed in 2010. They went through 240,000 (two hundred and forty thousand) cell phone data protocols and found the perp. I also don't know much about the German laws but that's what they did and I'm guessing they got a warrant for that. So that's probably different in the US. I just think that 2 girls were murdered here and if they need 300,000 cell phone data protocols to find who did this, they should get them. If the law doesn't allow that, that would be very disappointing.

MOO.

I also don't believe they know who the perp is, for a moment after the PC I thought maybe they do know, but since then things just got confusing and I think that it is confusing because they are confused. I just said if they have cell phone evidence (and they would never tell the public that, so we have no idea what they have or don't have), then they know who the perp is.

MOO.

My understanding of the case you’re referring to, it involved a perp who was not a local person. He travelled to the location where he committed murder and it was by the route he took that LE was able to determine where he originated from?

But to the most recent theory here, that the murderer had a direct connection to Delphi during the time the murders occurs, lived or worked there, then I think his cellphone pinging in and around Delphi wouldn’t raise any suspicion because he had reason to be there, just the same as all the other residents and employees within the town.
 
I was talking about something totally different I think - general tower info not triangulation. Sorry - totally my fault.

EDIT: trying to do too many things at once. I was trying to say they can get the number from a tower if there was one contact (in or out) then they could work from there to try to ID who the user is. I don’t know a lot about triangulation TBH. Could they not triangulate if they made or received only one call/text? Do they need more than one or a combo of phone and data activity? If your source will tell you that would be great. I’m curious now.
I think the triangulation is to get the position of the phone. You need a minimum of two towers and a phone to then get an approx phone position. LE probably already got the tower dumps from that day and time period (e.g 2-3 pm ) which would have the IMEI numbers of the phones that hit the towers at that time. I think they would have to do this within weeks as I don't know how long the companies keep that data. If the perp didn't have a phone or had a burner phone or put it in a foil packet then it would be a waste of time. MOO.
 
I misunderstood it to be between the the two sketches. I went back and that was not what he meant. Not sure if he meant between the sketch and the suspect or a photo of a suspect.
But I see he did not mean between the two sketches.

That doesn't make sense. Because a photo would be a photo, not a resemblance, a photo IS what a person looks like, so he can't look like something in between the sketch and an actual photograph.

I have no idea what he actually meant, just like with some of the things at the PC, I wish he wouldn't talk in riddles half the time ... MOO.
 
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For some reason, I don’t see BG getting a burner phone but hopefully he had a cell phone with him. MOO

Do you think it's fair to say where as cell phone tracking is one of the first things that LE uses to try and identify a suspect, and where as it's been two years now since this crime, that they have no phone evidence from the suspect?
I don’t think that is fair to say. They might have actually gotten something. They aren’t going to tell the public everything they’ve gotten as they get it. The phone info alone would not be enough to arrest though. Just puts BG in the area.
 
Been going over early articles and I just can't fathom something.

At midnight on Feb 13th this was said,

"Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby say there is no reason to suspect foul play or to believe the girls are in immediate danger."

You have two young girls missing for 6 1/2 hours while hiking in a rural and in some places treacherous terrain, they're not answering phone then phone goes dead, it's getting colder, how in the heck can you make that statement? And then call off the search for darkness!? Did they really think they were off somewhere joyriding or had walked to a friend's house and we're having a good time at 12 midnight and not bothering to tell their parents where they were, 13 and 14 years old girls who's whole history pointed to the opposite being true?

Sorry for rehashing this, just seems so wrong to me. God Bless Libby, Abby and their families </3
People go missing every day across the United States.

Almost all of them are found quickly, and unharmed.

This was a safe, albeit rural area, and the missing people were two teenage girls.

They likely got lost, or left the area without contacting their loved ones.

The last thing law enforcement was expecting was a brutal double murder. That simply does not happen with any regularity.

They called off the search according to protocol, as the last thing you want is to lose more people on the woods.

Hindsight is 20/20.
 
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I've been here since they were missing and I am very hopeful.

ETA: Thru the bodies being located, the memorial service, the funerals and the families' tears. I refuse to give up hope.

Dear Jax49,

I remain very hopeful, as well.

Each time there is a new L.E. interview, this increases the chances of solving this case.

There is a possibility that where the perp lives now (if he moved), the exposure of the new sketch and interview on the news programs may lead (or have already led) to the identification of the perp.

I believe in this investigative team and with all of the F.B.I. tools they have at their disposal, in addition to the tips, there may likely be an arrest very soon.
 
People go missing every day across the United States.

Almost all of them are found quickly, and unharmed.

This was a safe, albeit rural area, and the missing people were too teenage girls.

They likely got lost, or left the area without contacting their loved ones.

The last thing law enforcement was expecting was a brutal double murder. That simply does not happen with any regularity.

They called off the search according to protocol, as the last thing you want is to lose more people on the woods.

Hindsight is 20/20.
I hear everything you're saying, I do but the Mommy in me still can't understand it. Sorry for rehashing.
 
Dear @sunshineray,

As a Mom, I understand completely what you mean.

My first thought was that they may have fallen somewhere off the bridge or around the bridge and were injured. That's the main reason I would have kept searching and calling. Time makes all the difference in the world for someone who is seriously injured.

There were so many searchers in addition to the police and no one answered when they called out. It was dark and the chances of anyone out there getting hurt themselves increased.

Also, they didn't know if the girls went somewhere else. It happens.

As @MassGuy says, "Hindsight is 20/20" and this is so true!
 
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My understanding of the case you’re referring to, it involved a perp who was not a local person. He travelled to the location where he committed murder and it was by the route he took that LE was able to determine where he originated from?

But to the most recent theory here, that the murderer had a direct connection to Delphi during the time the murders occurs, lived or worked there, then I think his cellphone pinging in and around Delphi wouldn’t raise any suspicion because he had reason to be there, just the same as all the other residents and employees within the town.

I had to check - while I don't know where the perp was going right after the murder, the perp and the victim were from the same county. So the perp didn't really "travel". They had the type of car and were looking for cell phone data that matched the supposed movement of the car on a certain day at a certain time. So if you put all those things together, it doesn't matter that the perp had a reason to be there because he lived in the area.

But yes, we don't know if he had a phone, I just thought this is interesting because in both cases cars play a role.
 
For starters, the park is in a rural setting but it's not exactly out in the middle of nowhere. We're not talking about 150 acres in the Klondike. It's just a few minutes from downtown and, technically, you could actually walk to Abby's house from the park. (I wouldn't, but you could.) It's not very big, either. Also, while it's hilly and uneven in places, I'd not refer to it as "treacherous." My kids have been playing in it since they were toddlers. For the most part it's pretty flat, except in a few places where the bank's high and, of course,down around the creek. Where it DOES become dangerous is when you're trying to walk around after dark and can't watch where you're stepping. That's when accidents happen there.

The town had never seen a double murder of children before. So to answer your question, yes. They thought the girls were off someplace else. That wires were crossed and they got another ride, perhaps. They initially started searching because they (as in LE and the families) thought that one of the girls perhaps got hurt and they couldn't make it to the meeting point. They were looking for 2 girls, one possibly injured, but both living. They weren't searching for bodies. It's easy enough to walk around and call out their names. They were expecting to hear something back. It does not take long to walk from one end of the park to the other. When they did NOT hear anything back, the feeling was probably that the girls simply weren't in the park. If they'd been there, they'd have either heard or seen them. Since they did not hear or see them, they assumed that the girls were no longer there. There are other ways of searching at that point: calling all the friends, other family members, checking hospitals, etc.

In addition, while the official search was called off for the safety of the searchers, it's not like everyone packed up and went home. There were still people out looking.

The girls' families have not issued any complaints about how the search was handled on the 13th.
I understand all that but for the police to call off the search, I just don't get it. Really no disrespect meant to LE, I just feel it was a time to press on not let up, jmo. Again sorry to rehash.
 
I understand all that but for the police to call off the search, I just don't get it. Really no disrespect meant to LE, I just feel it was a time to press on not let up, jmo. Again sorry to rehash.

FWIW they may have called off the search on the park, but not the search of the girls. There were other ways of searching besides having men on the ground at that particular location.
 
There is one thing that might put BG on the road past the trail that day, be reason for him carrying a handgun, and have him out starting earlier in the day when it was colder, thus the heavier clothing - checking trap lines.

If he owns land, or has permission on any of the land along that road (and the creek), he could have checked his traps that morning. A handgun is often used to dispatch an animal in a trap. Feb. 13th is past deer hunting season (which he wasn't dressed for, anyway), but square into trapping season. By 1pm he was maybe done and on his way back into town?

It would also be a good excuse if he came home wet, muddy, or even blood-spattered.

I know, very random and reaching...
 
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If you are innocent, and have never committed a crime, under what circumstances would you want to refuse to give a DNA sample?

Well, if you're a cranky ole woman like me, who feels like she is living in one of the back chapters of "1984", you'd refuse anything that goes against your right to privacy under the 4th Amendment.
Moo
 
Same here. I technically have a burner phone. I have a Go Phone and only put money on it when I travel. The rest of the time I live without a phone.

Burner phones are simply pay as you go. They are contractless. They're not secret government entities that can only be purchased on the Silk Road. Not sure why it's unbelievable that BG would have one. The majority of people who have them are not killers. You buy them because you don't want to be tied to a contract month after month, because you don't want an expensive cell phone bills, because you don't want someone to run a credit check on you (each time someone outside of yourself does it, your score drops)...You can pick them up at any Walmart, Dollar General, or Rite Aid (along with a plethora of other stores).
I suspect he does have the type of phone that you and the other poster have. There is still a lot LE can do even if it’s a burner, but it would take longer.
 
So, I have only been involved here for a year. How do the long timers feel about catching this killer? Hopeful or not?​

To me it depends on whether they have his DNA or not. A confession is most unlikely. Sooner or later, he is likely to be arrested on some other charge and maybe they will get a DNA hit. I think that is how this will be solved, if it is. The more they answer in wishy washy ways about DNA, the more it makes me think there was a sexual assault.
Jmo
 
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