CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #19

[Karinna]

If convicted it will all come in during the sentencing phase.

Character witnesses or those who testify about lack of moral character doesn't present itself in the guilt phase.

Now I have seen exceptions due to the defense opening the door by trying to get in character evidence in prematurely. When that has happened the state is then allowed to disprove such claims of good character.

Btw, has any of CMs close friends come forth in the media claiming he couldnt have done this? We usually do see friends or neighbors speak out is why I ask. Tia

Imo

BBM, I am not aware of anyone who has spoken on Merritt's behalf. I think it was in the SW's that LE even made mention of CM really having no one but CJ in his corner. Words to that affect anyway.

 

[ilovewings]

It's totally common for children who has a parent who is a murderer to see only what they want to see in them.

It did break my heart that she thought it was perfectly normal for CM to go gamble at the casino in order for him to pay the car payment. She was asked how many times he brought money home, and iirc, she said it happened only one time.

Did she testify that he brought in money he had made by legitimately working hard with a lot of his money going for their upkeep, and wellbeing?

How much raising did CM really do anyway? Were he, and CJ ever separated?

I dont see how he did much raising of any of his children spending so much time gambling his money away or doing stints in jail.

If he was such a attentive dad why was Joey having to be the one to see that his family had a roof over their head, and food to eat? And the one who had to give CJ money to pay to get her car fixed?

Wasnt his bank account belly up?

Imo

You are 100% correct.

In some trials I have even seen when judges are explaining the weight of CE to the juries tell them it can often be more weighty than direct evidence.

The great thing about all of the circumstantial facts entered in any trial it's very easy to follow, and following the CE facts entered are like links in a chain. The jury doesnt have to agree on every CE fact entered for the strong chain to remain intact.

I really do believe that is the reason why CE cases are the least likely to be overturned.

Even if one or two CE facts can be removed when appealed it still does not remove all of the other many other CE facts that still proved the defendant's guilt.

I much prefer CE cases over direct evidence cases. They are much stronger than having to rely on eye witness testimony only.

Jmo tho

I believe eye witness testimony is the least reliable. Several cases have been overturned because it was proven the eyewitness/s were wrong. Have you ever noticed when someone goes missing, "tips" come in from all over the country saying someone saw the missing person, when in fact the missing person was dead, lying in a grave somewhere. Circumstantial and forensic evidence are the most reliable as well as
video-surveillence.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Another obstacle for the defence date of the murders is the phone records. In one murder it would normally be deemed strong evidence that the victim, especially one who used his phone a lot, stopped using his phone from a certain point. In this case there's two such victims who stopped using their phones in the same time frame. Double the evidence is as good as cast iron IMO.

Daugherty's question does not mean the prosecution's case has changed to the family being murdered on the 5th.

Do people not understand that if he had couched his question to their witness that they were murdered on the 4th between 6.45 pm and 8 pm leaving him 12 or 15 hours to clean up that the defence could then say 'ah but you heard our expert - he was only asked about the state's scenario, that's not our case that they were murdered then, we say the family was alive at 7 am so there wouldn't have been long enough for a clean up' ? Daugherty had to get him to admit there was time for a clean up even on the defence's scenario, given Merritt was unaccounted for, on his phone records, for almost 4 hours on the morning of the 5th.

At no time did Daugherty say the prosecution's case has changed. More misinformation folks.

In my opinion.

Ita! It's best to listen to the entire details. The totality of the details always matters just like the details will matter to the jury.

I have no doubt the jury was listening very closely to this hypothetical question asked by the state, and the answer given by the defense witness who admitted it wouldnt eliminate CM as the murderer even if it hypothetically happened on the early morning of the 5th.

Imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

BBM, Yes it is very incriminating and could approximately determine when the murders happened with zero phone contact from both victims, IMO.

Yes all signs of life suddenly stopped! There can only be one reasonable conclusion for why that happened!

It's really sad to think about knowing both were such thriving, and lively people before their time on earth was stopped by CM.

Imo.

 

[asyousay]

Yes if the defence want to claim the family were alive on the 5th where is the proof?

Nobody heard from the family from early evening on the 4th. It’s still suspicious to me that on the drive home he didn’t answer Summer and instead of ringing her back he listened to his answer phone messages. It would just be easier to ring Summer but oddly he doesn’t.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This case will continue to haunt me like Joe Duncan's quadruple murder/serial pedophile case does to this day.

Knowing when CM eradicated Joey, and Summer from this earth their two precious baby boys also lay dead beside them will forever rip my heart out.

CM is truly one among the very worst baby killers imo.

Fgs, CM came into their home invited, and welcomed so much so neighbors thought CM lived there.

He was pretending to be a close friend yet underneath his mask of deception, and deceit, CM seethed with hatred, and resentment against not only Summer, but Joey, and Summer's two little boys. It's very abnormal to even resent children in just a severe degree CM did, and even more abnormal to possess the capability of crushing their skulls in as if they meant nothing more than an obstacle to him. He knew both little boys could identify him. So he removes all eye witnesses, and gets petty satisfaction in murdering two little boys he highly detested anyway.

I'm sure he thought they both should have been spanked over, and over again like he abused his own little son. That alone showed what an overbearing mean control freak he was, IMO. Another glimpse of who CM actually was/is. Imo.

No matter how this case ends I will always remember JoeyJr, and little G's smiling happy faces when the family was so happy together.

In closing for the state I think they need to have a lot of visuals to truly show how heinous CMs 4 murders truly were.

They need to end the state's closing by showing the haunting image of CM digging a hole in the DESERT on a large TV screen, then show the photo of all of the victims smiling that was seen in court. The last thing they should show is the family image disappearing into the hole, and fading to all black.

Imo.

 

[la2cabo]

In closing for the state I think they need to have a lot of visuals to truly show how heinous CMs 4 murders truly were.

They need to end the state's closing by showing the haunting image of CM digging a hole in the DESERT on a large TV screen, then show the photo of all of the victims smiling that was seen in court. The last thing they should show is the family image disappearing into the hole, and fading to all black.

Imo.

Snipped and BBM

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Force Ten]

This case will continue to haunt me like Joe Duncan's quadruple murder/serial pedophile case does to this day.

Knowing when CM eradicated Joey, and Summer from this earth their two precious baby boys also lay dead beside them will forever rip my heart out.

CM is truly one among the very worst baby killers imo.

Fgs, CM came into their home invited, and welcomed so much so neighbors thought CM lived there.

He was pretending to be a close friend yet underneath his mask of deception, and deceit, CM seethed with hatred, and resentment against not only Summer, but Joey, and Summer's two little boys. It's very abnormal to even resent children in just a severe degree CM did, and even more abnormal to possess the capability of crushing their skulls in as if they meant nothing more than an obstacle to him. He knew both little boys could identify him. So he removes all eye witnesses, and gets petty satisfaction in murdering two little boys he highly detested anyway.

I'm sure he thought they both should have been spanked over, and over again like he abused his own little son. That alone showed what an overbearing mean control freak he was, IMO. Another glimpse of who CM actually was/is. Imo.

No matter how this case ends I will always remember JoeyJr, and little G's smiling happy faces when the family was so happy together.

In closing for the state I think they need to have a lot of visuals to truly show how heinous CMs 4 murders truly were.

They need to end the state's closing by showing the haunting image of CM digging a hole in the DESERT on a large TV screen, then show the photo of all of the victims smiling that was seen in court. The last thing they should show is the family image disappearing into the hole, and fading to all black.

Imo.

What's appalling to me is that after Duncan's horrific crimes, he's allowed to run a blog. It's baffling.

 

[smr]

If convicted it will all come in during the sentencing phase.

Character witnesses or those who testify about lack of moral character doesn't present itself in the guilt phase.

Now I have seen exceptions due to the defense opening the door by trying to get in character evidence in prematurely. When that has happened the state is then allowed to disprove such claims of good character.

Btw, has any of CMs close friends come forth in the media claiming he couldnt have done this? We usually do see friends or neighbors speak out is why I ask. Tia

Imo

BBM

His best friend, Joey, is dead. He may not have many friends but does have a lot of disgruntled customers, that's probably why he treasured his friendship with Joey and why he's an easy target.

 

[la2cabo]

BBM

His best friend, Joey, is dead. He may not have many friends but does have a lot of disgruntled customers, that's probably why he treasured his friendship with Joey and why he's an easy target.

I'm confused. So because Merritt caused the customers to become disgruntled due to his lack of work ethic he's an easy target? Btw, if he treasured his friendship with Joey he wouldn't have taken advantage of him time after time and ultimately murder him. Your logic baffles me.

 

[Force Ten]

I believe this one piece of evidence tells everything we need to know about the murder location.

This tells us Summer was incapacitated lying on her side while the paint dripped and then dried, in the vicinity of the weapon that killed her.

Painting in the desert? Painting in an alternative murder location? Painting in the Dodge Ram? Painting and abducted, still, quiet, and horizontal, at 7 am with no one noticing?

View attachment 184992

I have postulated that the paint had to dry before being moved. I'm not sure about that theory any more. But mostly dried at least. He could have moved her body to the truck without smearing the paint. What is strange though is that there was enough paint to cause (what looks like) one big drip separating into 3 smaller ones. Even those are large drips in comparison to the bra. She had to have been laying on her back. She certainly wasn't lying down painting the ceiling.

 

[asyousay]

BBM

His best friend, Joey, is dead. He may not have many friends but does have a lot of disgruntled customers, that's probably why he treasured his friendship with Joey and why he's an easy target.

“Easy target” haha

He is a vile human being who has spent his entire life ripping people off because he is so bone idle.


He doesn’t have a single redeeming feature.

 

[MrsPC]

Ok Tuesday defense plans to call Dr Rudin...unsure if they have any other witnesses. When & if the defense rests then the Prosecution puts on their rebuttal. But, doesn't the court also allow the Defense to put on a surrebuttal? And if so, how long could this take before closing arguments commence? If this trial goes on much longer I do feel there may possibly be a mistrial.

Ok I found a link about the process & yes the defense gets to present a surrebuttal.
Criminal Court Process
After the prosecutor and defense present their witnesses, a prosecutor can call rebuttal witnesses to rebut defense testimony. The defense can call a surrebuttal witness to rebut the prosecution’s rebuttal witnesses. Once all the testimony is concluded and all the evidence introduced, the attorneys usually get together with the judge to go over the instructions in the law that the judge reads to the jury. After the judge and lawyers decide on what instructions will be given, closing arguments are presented by each side. The prosecution gets to talk to the jury twice during this phase. It gets the first word and the last word, with the defense closing argument nestled in between.

 

[Frankie Hellis]

Ok Tuesday defense plans to call Dr Rudin...unsure if they have any other witnesses. When & if the defense rests then the Prosecution puts on their rebuttal. But, doesn't the court also allow the Defense to put on a surrebuttal? And if so, how long could this take before closing arguments commence? If this trial goes on much longer I do feel there may possibly be a mistrial.

Ok I found a link about the process & yes the defense gets to present a surrebuttal.
Criminal Court Process
After the prosecutor and defense present their witnesses, a prosecutor can call rebuttal witnesses to rebut defense testimony. The defense can call a surrebuttal witness to rebut the prosecution’s rebuttal witnesses. Once all the testimony is concluded and all the evidence introduced, the attorneys usually get together with the judge to go over the instructions in the law that the judge reads to the jury. After the judge and lawyers decide on what instructions will be given, closing arguments are presented by each side. The prosecution gets to talk to the jury twice during this phase. It gets the first word and the last word, with the defense closing argument nestled in between.

Oh lord help us all. That could take another 3 months, at the rate this trial progresses.

 

[smr]

RSBM BBM

Knowing when CM eradicated Joey, and Summer from this earth their two precious baby boys also lay dead beside them will forever rip my heart out.

"Knowing" and "believing" have different meanings. One can't know something that is not a fact. One can only believe it.

I'm sure he thought they both should have been spanked over, and over again like he abused his own little son. That alone showed what an overbearing mean control freak he was, IMO. Another glimpse of who CM actually was/is. Imo.

<modsnip>I know a lot of people whose fathers spanked them during their childhood. The fathers were loving fathers and not murderers, and the children grew up loving their fathers.

No matter how this case ends I will always remember JoeyJr, and little G's smiling happy faces when the family was so happy together.

This is the only part on which I agree with you. <modsnip>

They need to end the state's closing by showing the haunting image of CM digging a hole in the DESERT on a large TV screen, then show the photo of all of the victims smiling that was seen in court. The last thing they should show is the family image disappearing into the hole, and fading to all black.

Imo.

<modsnip: unnecessary>

Btw, CM is not the only one that dug holes in the desert. He is not even the only one that had a picture of him digging a hole in the desert, either. Listen to 3:20 of the video:

 

[travelbug]

Daugherty's question does not mean the prosecution's case has changed to the family being murdered on the 5th.

Do people not understand that if he had couched his question to their witness that they were murdered on the 4th between 6.45 pm and 8 pm leaving him 12 or 15 hours to clean up that the defence could then say 'ah but you heard our expert - he was only asked about the state's scenario, that's not our case that they were murdered then, we say the family was alive at 7 am so there wouldn't have been long enough for a clean up' ? Daugherty had to get him to admit there was time for a clean up even on the defence's scenario, given Merritt was unaccounted for, on his phone records, for almost 4 hours on the morning of the 5th.

At no time did Daugherty say the prosecution's case has changed. More misinformation folks.

In my opinion.

It was said during questioning of Beasley. Daugherty says "lets assume they were murdered the evening of the 4th or the early morning hours of the 5th..." and then asked if someone was unaccounted for from 7am-10:15am, that would be 3 hours and 15 minutes that they could clean up...objection/sustained... Then asked him how long it would take to clean up.

around the 34:00 of this video:

Fortunately the Jury will not be impacted by any of our opinions. <modsnip: unnecessary> The jurors will deal with evidence as presented by both sides. They will consider that:
No DNA connects CM to the gravesite
There is no proof SM was raped by CM
There is no proof that JM didn't issue checks on 2/4/10
There is no proof that CM was at the Fallbrook house on 2/4/10
There is no proof that CM hated (or was angry) at JM and his family
etc., etc. etc.
The DT has successfully challenged many of the assertions presented by the PT.
The PT has failed to prove the culpability of CM as pertains to the murder of the McStay family.

Just my independent opinion, based upon actual CE, testimony, exhibits and arguments from the PT and the DT. We will soon see the culmination of this ridiculously prolonged trial. At that time 12 jurors will determine whether the State has proven the case against Mr. Merritt.

 

[Force Ten]

Fortunately the Jury will not be impacted by any of our opinions. <modsnip: unnecessary> The jurors will deal with evidence as presented by both sides. They will consider that:
No DNA connects CM to the gravesite
There is no proof SM was raped by CM
There is no proof that JM didn't issue checks on 2/4/10
There is no proof that CM was at the Fallbrook house on 2/4/10
There is no proof that CM hated (or was angry) at JM and his family
etc., etc. etc.
The DT has successfully challenged many of the assertions presented by the PT.
The PT has failed to prove the culpability of CM as pertains to the murder of the McStay family.

Just my independent opinion, based upon actual CE, testimony, exhibits and arguments from the PT and the DT. We will soon see the culmination of this ridiculously prolonged trial. At that time 12 jurors will determine whether the State has proven the case against Mr. Merritt.

You left out what they'll review presented by the PT:
Several backdated checks totaling thousands.
Cell pings of the tower closest to the gravesite.
Calls to QB posing as Joseph.
The truck in the video.
Chase's jailhouse recording.
Chase's growing alibi.
Chase's DNA in the Trooper on the driver's side.

 

[Sillybilly]

Okay everyone ... stop the snark and sniping at each other in the thread or we can close it down until trial resumes.

 

[Mony Mony]

Not only did the DNA not match the two timed felon, it did not match any of the McStays. That's kinda hard to explain, IMO.

 

[la2cabo]

Not only did the DNA not match the two timed felon, it did not match any of the McStays. That's kinda hard to explain, IMO.

I think the QB activity and check forging are also difficult to explain. I can't fathom that Joey would give Merritt access to his money. Did Summer even have access to these things?