Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

[Blueberry2720]

Social workers, teachers, coaches, and many others who work with children are state mandated reporters. If they're aware that someone has abused a child then it's legally their responsibility to turn that person in. If not, they could be held responsible on down the road.

As far as LE and their role in telling the school, camp, etc. We still believe in innocent until proven guilty (in theory) in the US. Unless charges are filed or an investigation is underway and that person is named, then I am unaware of any legal reason these institutions should be alerted. If the person has not been named in an investigation then there's really nothing reportable. If LE did "tell" on them to their employer then the employee would probably have a pretty good lawsuit on their hands for, at the very least, defamation of character.

Would all religious organizations fall under this mandate too? And if so, why are priests exempt?

 

[mtnlites]

But with safety goggles on, he’d look not unlike an alpine skier. He needs a helmet to protect the lower part of the face. Yellow goggles, helmet, gloves. Even his stupid jacket is not out of place, then.

He could wear it on a ski slope.

ETA: even snowboard.

Google Image Result for http://www.top-travel-tips.com/image-files/skiing-clothes.jpg

Someone dressed in ski gear around Delphi would definitely stand out and be memorable. As is, his clothing is not out of place since it's plain and standard enough to have been purchased from a variety of stores and worn by a range of ages.

 

[Charlot123]

I need to better understand where the line is drawn with respect to the responsibility of someone turning in a perp/suspect who works in an institution with kids.

Let's say someone like BG worked in a school with kids, or a church with youth groups, or a summer camp with campers, etc. And a co-worker feels strongly he could be the perp, or maybe even knows somehow that he IS the perp, other than a basic moral/societal responsibility to speak up, is there some legal or other obligation to approach LE with the info? I think Catholic priests are not required to turn confessional info over to LE.

Another angle is this: if LE knows who a perp is, but they don't have sufficient evidence yet to get an arrest warrant, are they bound in any way to alert the church, school, camp, etc.?

Hope this makes sense!

Great question.

From my perspective, it might boil down to mandatory reporting. The policemen are mandatory reporters. So if there is enough data to confirm is, they should.

Now interestingly, about the clergy. They are, too, mandatory reporters in the US.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubpdfs/clergymandated.pdf

This seems to be in discord with the privacy of confession, but not reporting means potentially opening themselves to lawsuits, should something ever happen to a kid.

How is this dichotomy, privacy of confession, and being legal mandatory reporters, is resolved within the clergy?

 

[Alisajo]

I agree. These girls (and parents) did everything right. They went during the day, went together, were only staying for a short time, Libby had a cell phone, other kids were there, etc..and look what happened. It makes no sense. It’s so sad and scary!MOO

The girls mentioned BG was weird, I think they were concerned for his saftey on that bridge not knowing he had an ulterior motive. I think Libby would have called 911 if they felt danger rather than take a photo. These girls were probably concerned citizens. R.I.P Libby & Abby

 

[mtnlites]

Would all religious organizations fall under this mandate too? And if so, why are priests exempt?

Not all priests ARE exempt. It's the Catholic church that has a real issue with this and they're talking about making Catholic priests mandated. Methodist, Christian, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, etc. all fall under mandated reporters in various states. It's not the same all across the nation. 26 states now require members of the clergy to report and they're knowledge of abuse is no longer considered privileged nor confidential. Indiana is not currently one of those states but that could soon change.

It's a PDF but this talks about it more and it's an official doc.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubpdfs/clergymandated.pdf

 

[sunshineray]

My opinion only:

If LE were to choose three or four things to hold quiet and to themselves and release everything else that they know to this point; evidence, COD, interviews with redacted names, etc...this case would be solved in a couple months, tops.
I am to the point where I think the information they are NOT releasing is keeping someone from realizing they have crucial information.
I do not believe they have usable DNA. LE has talked all around the subject but have never said they had DNA usable against the killer, only that they had DNA. The fact that LE answers questions about Parabon doesn’t mean they are going to use it or are able to use it. They just want the killer to worry whether or not they have his DNA.
I truly do not understand why, if BG is local or a former local or from the area or frequents there, why why why has no one recognized him?
Not just his immediate family or friends that might hesitate to turn him in, but others like neighbors, co-workers, former teachers, grocery clerks, Walmart greeters....Somebody! If this happened in my much larger small town half the town would have recognized him and called it in while the other half was on hold waiting to do the same. Not blaming the town people, I just don’t understand it. Makes me question the idea that the killer is local.
I still believe that the key to solving the case is how did he get away. We understand that...we are halfway to finding him. I thought the info on the vehicle at the last PC was finally a step in that direction. Not really sure what to think of that at this point.
I’ve said this before...LE keeps begging for the public’s help, but until they give us some information, this case will not move forward.

Don't forget the Radar Online interview with the Carroll County sheriff. Sounds like they were having the FBI do the family DNA search. The previous article I posted this thread was mostly about the gal who taught the FBI analysts those techniques in analyzing data into old family trees and working forward. She was the one who finally found April Tinsley's killer. I'm very hopeful by what the sheriff said in the January RO interview. I also think there's a correlation to his interview and then 3 months later ISP Carter's words at the PC.,the "different investigative strategy" and the search for witnesses to the no-model, no-year, no-color car being parked in the lot by the murders scene. AJMO

 

[Imvp2]

The girls mentioned BG was weird, I think they were concerned for his saftey on that bridge not knowing he had an ulterior motive. I think Libby would have called 911 if they felt danger rather than take a photo. These girls were probably concerned citizens. R.I.P Libby & Abby

In my opinion and going back to conversations with my kids close their ages, you think you're kind of immortal No horrific crime will happen to you hence no 911 call. But they both sensed something weird about BG so Libby recorded him.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Such a strange way to express oneself. “You take the head off the person, and you recognize the body?” Like, in “The Headless Horseman”?

I thought it was odd, too!

 

[steeltowngirl]

I've mostly been lurking these threads (and forgive me for not being able to keep up on all 103 of them), but I just wanted to come out of the shadows temporarily because I'm a bit intrigued by this whole business with the ringtone song.

I played the clip listening for something resembling music, and I was able to catch a shift in cadence. It still doesn't sound like anything to me other than the wind blowing through the speakers, though. I do think I caught the sound of a helicopter or some type of vehicle in the background, but I can't really make out any type of song. But my brain IS looking for it, I just can't hear it.

Do you know the name of the song we should be looking for?

It may have been from a YouTube version posted in thread #90 by pepper34. Song is “Big Poppa”

 

[MsBetsy]

I thought it was odd, too!

Yeah, that was a little strange. I think that was just his way of saying that even without paying attention to his face someone who knows him well will recognize him by his demeanor. The way he hunches his shoulders, carries himself, looking down with his hands in his pockets and the specific way he walks should be immediately familiar to those who have known him most of his life. Imo

 

[Charlot123]

Don't forget the Radar Online interview with the Carroll County sheriff. Sounds like they were having the FBI do the family DNA search. The previous article I posted this thread was mostly about the gal who taught the FBI analysts those techniques in analyzing data into old family trees and working forward. She was the one who finally found April Tinsley's killer. I'm very hopeful by what the sheriff said in the January RO interview. I also think there's a correlation to his interview and then 3 months later ISP Carter's words at the PC.,the "different investigative strategy" and the search for witnesses to the no-model, no-year, no-color car being parked in the lot by the murders scene. AJMO

That gal is CeCe Moore. A very interesting person.

CeCe Moore - Wikipedia

 

[mtnlites]

My opinion only:

If LE were to choose three or four things to hold quiet and to themselves and release everything else that they know to this point; evidence, COD, interviews with redacted names, etc...this case would be solved in a couple months, tops..

SBM

If they were to release all of those things then what, exactly, would be left for them to hold onto?

There's a chance that releasing some of this information would help but, IMO, an even bigger chance that it would lead to more chaos, including false confessions. I may have hesitation in trusting one of the law enforcement offices but considering that there are now three working the case, I choose to put my trust and confidence in them.

There was a case a couple of years ago here where I live. A guy, Alex, was on the phone with his girlfriend. There was a knock on the door, he told her he'd call her back, and that was the last time anyone saw him. Someone called 911 that evening and said that it appeared that 2 men were beating up another man inside a car in his apartment lot. Alex had disappeared. The whole area searched for him. He was a likable dude and it felt like everyone in Lexington knew him. Almost right from the beginning the public was bemoaning the "lack of evidence" and calling it a "cold case" before a month even went by. LE released nothing so it was assumed that they had nothing in which to release. When his body was uncovered from a barrel in the river, the public was sure that he'd never see justice. They angrily demanded that LE release what they had so that the public could help. LE refused. Then, suddenly, two men were being arrested-one at the Mexican border. Turns out they'd known who had abducted him all along. Apparently, while on the phone with his girlfriend, when he'd heard the knock on the door he'd actually told her, "Hey, X and Y are here." LE kept that information out of the press because A) they were concerned about his girlfriend's safety and B) they were investigating the 2 dudes and they didn't want to tip them off and make them run (which one ultimately did anyway).

Point being, the way things look to us, the public, is sometimes vastly different than how they appear to LE. They have the whole picture and we do not. While I don't believe they have a specific person in mind, with them having far more pieces of the puzzle than us I still have confidence that between the 3 enforcement agencies they'll be able to move forward. It could take years, but I think it will happen.

 

[mtnlites]

Yeah, that was a little strange. I think that was just his way of saying that even without paying attention to his face someone who knows him well will recognize him by his demeanor. The way he hunches his shoulders, carries himself, looking down with his hands in his pockets and the specific way he walks should be immediately familiar to those who have known him most of his life. Imo

I think so, too. I don't need to see my husband's face to know it's him. I can tell it's him from behind or from the other side of the room. You get used to the way your loved ones carry themselves.

 

[Jamie737]

But with safety goggles on, he’d look not unlike an alpine skier. He needs a helmet to protect the lower part of the face. Yellow goggles, helmet, gloves. Even his stupid jacket is not out of place, then.

He could wear it on a ski slope.

ETA: even snowboard.

Google Image Result for http://www.top-travel-tips.com/image-files/skiing-clothes.jpg

From perusing videoclips in another case I came across trail-riding with off-road motorcycles as an activity in the area.

A motorcycle is a very quick and efficient way to get around, and if someone has interpreted those white loops as a pair of goggles or a muffler that would be what some cycle riders wear.

I haven’t ever heard a motorcycle or mc tracks mentioned at all though

 

[kkdj]

I think so, too. I don't need to see my husband's face to know it's him. I can tell it's him from behind or from the other side of the room. You get used to the way your loved ones carry themselves.

This is so true. People have their own way of carrying themselves. I can and have spotted people I know well in the middle of a large crowd just because of how they carry themselves. I don't need to see their face.

 

[tresir2012]

I have a question and if it’s already been discussed I apologize. We know the SC photo is at 2:07. Does the phone also record the time of the audio ?

I'm going to check mine but I think it is usually part of the file name. Date and time IIRC. Probably already answered - just catching up.

ETA mine is in following format

YYYYMMDD_HHMMSS.MP4

 

[kkdj]

I'm going to check mine but I think it is usually part of the file name. Date and time IIRC. Probably already answered - just catching up.

Date and time I believe.

 

[tresir2012]

Date and time I believe.

Just edited my previous post. So they will have the exact time of the commencement of the crime. This should enable LE to place witnesses on the trail based on their accounts etc. Maybe they have caught some witnesses lying and hence the reason for going back to the 1st sketch. AJMO

 

[MDATCA]

Its super intersting how different people see or hear different things. I can't for the life of me hear the musical notes, but I hear "Oh my god, no" being screamed by one of the girls.

I heard that but then someone said they heard, Libby he has a gun, and now I can hear that also. It depends on which I am listening for.

 

[Rosegold68]

I’ve listened on the loop and can hear no music or girls talking

Had to switch it off it’s driving me crazy

To me he sounds authoritative, used to kids and there’s a familiarity I can’t put my finger on, almost like he knows they know him. And he sounds fairly young to me. 30’s/20’s

Just my thoughts. Wonder if LE have a bit more audio they aren’t releasing

I Really think they knew him