Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

[Jethro4WS]

Yes. For example everyone knew that RL was out that day and not back till 6:30 p.m. when the searcher knocked at his door to ask permission to search. So why don't we know that about the property on the other side of the creek, which actually is more important as that was closer to where the girls were last seen and where the girls apparently went missing from. MOO

There are more houses (including where Abby lived) on the side the girls were on at the time BG appears on the video - the south side. The house seen at the south in the attached image is actually about 200 feet closer to the bridge than the house at the end of the road seen to the right. But we haven't been told if any of the people that live in the homes to the south of the bridge were home at the time.

 

[Charlot123]

I believe this was a rumor debunked by Becky Patty (LG's grandmother) herself on one of GH Q&A interview sessions with her, if people need to check.

7 degrees celsius/44.6 degrees Fahrenheit on the 13th was the high. That's not warm. BG's layers of clothing was weather appropriate, but, in my opinion, ill-fitting and baggy on him - obscuring his true physique. I'm not seeing a beer gut or thickness on the torso at all. His arms and legs appear to be pretty skinny, too.

In terms of the audio, the "Guys" doesn't sound like a casual passing greeting. He's not saying "Hey guys" as he passes. There's a definite inflection upwards and an expectation behind it. Which, to my untrained ear, sounds like an attempt to get the two girls to focus on him, to give him their attention. For me, it's not so much the word itself, but how it's employed. I do think it implies a sort of casual authority and does remind me of youth leaders at camp or teachers/coaches dealing with a group of kids. JMO

I think “Guys” is at the very beginning. The “sounds” that people hear are erased words, the whole dialogue. The LE doesn’t want us to hear anything out of it. “Down the hill” sounds almost compressed to me; it is at the end of the sentence, but also, it is compressed because of the need for the LE to cut off the previous word. For some reason, the preceding conversation is so important that the LE can’t allow us to hear a single word from it.

How long did it last? No clue. Could be one minute, could be fifteen.

There are no ghost sounds, no screams, nothing, just erased words, normal manipulation with the recording.

 

[Annicade]

Is there hunting land nearby? Looking St Indiana state's hunting seasons it looks like rabbit, furbear, red/grey fox coyote, and striped skunk was in during that time frame. I wonder if there were hunters out there. I could see BG photo dressed like many hunting in the woods. Definitely having possible gun/knives/ weapons for skinning, etc. Maybe looking into hunting liscences, game commissioner info, etc.

 

[pepper 34]

Is there hunting land nearby? Looking St Indiana state's hunting seasons it looks like rabbit, furbear, red/grey fox coyote, and striped skunk was in during that time frame. I wonder if there were hunters out there. I could see BG photo dressed like many hunting in the woods. Definitely having possible gun/knives/ weapons for skinning, etc. Maybe looking into hunting liscences, game commissioner info, etc.

I don't know about nearby in the general area but the entrance signs at MHBT state, "No Hunting." If anyone were going to go ahead and hunt anyway, it wouldn't really have been the day for it, imo... with so many others in the park that day.

 

[kelleyrepair]

Marking myself safe, and still reasonably sane, from having followed this case on social media all weekend. All the logic, reason, discretion, and grammar! is here on WS. Craziness abounds outside of the decorum shown here in these threads.

 

[MassGuy]

Marking myself safe, and still reasonably sane, from having followed this case on social media all weekend. All the logic, reason, discretion, and grammar! is here on WS. Craziness abounds outside of the decorum shown here in these threads.

Yes. It’s like a competition to see who can come up with the most insane theory.

Facebook ain’t worth it.

 

[Ursamajr]

I think “Guys” is at the very beginning. The “sounds” that people hear are erased words, the whole dialogue.

I'm pretty sure that I have posted before so if you are reading again I apologize - I am 99% sure that the sounds between "guys" and "down the hill" are from the phone rubbing against the inside of a pocket or from holding the phone close to the body and rubbing against the fabric. I think getting stuck on the absence of actual words is causing us to go down a dead end rabbit hole. I think LE left the gap in there to prove they *arent* snipping words out. If they had there would be artifacts in the sound that would indicate the snip.

It would take us literally one minute to take a cell phone, turn on the record feature, put a jacket on or shove it in your pants and pace around outside or inside while saying a sentence or two. Also, It would be more accurate to walk through leaves or brush. This would recreate the conditions to some extent. I have done it as did a few last time I posted this silly little experiment and I would be interested to see what others think!

 

[Tiger Stripes]

My opinion - he had nowhere to go, he will do it, but the family prevents him from doing it (going to the police) because they are afraid of “prison justice”.

(This is why I am against “prison justice”, too).

Also, my opinion - they could have negotiated something for their relative, better conditions or whatever, but the longer they wait, the worse the result.

(Font colored blue for emphasis by me)
@Charlot123: As awful a thing as "prison justice" is said to be, I'm afraid that the real reason that the suspect/his family is afraid of (as another WS-er mentioned in an earlier post today) going to LE is the actual result of what.would.happen should their sterling reputation in the community be tarnished. MOO. (Loss of job, perhaps? Loss of...future trust? Feeling the need to move away? Finding it impossible to continue in whatever the trusting line of work currently is? {Shrug} All entirely speculation on my part.) As a very wise person once said, A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches...

And although LE may *not* have an actual suspect in hand yet, it seems possible (no guarantees) that at least one or more of local LE may have some suspicions regarding who the suspect is (obviously they aren't about to reveal any of that at this time, and we don't want them to until the time is right, much as we all want to see justice done for Abby & Libby). Thus, the sense (though not spelled out in the recent PCs) that LE has, perhaps, felt "betrayed", or that a person/individuals in a position/positions of trust (<-- operative word) within the community have somehow gone against that trust. Entirely JMOO.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Wasn’t it in the 40’s that day? That is not warm to me, even as a New Yorker. Still jacket weather.

Sure, 40s isn't "balmy", to be certain, but... after the brr-rr cold Midwestern winter that year, everyone was "ready" for it to be, to feel like, "spring".

 

[cluciano63]

(Font colored blue for emphasis by me)
@Charlot123: As awful a thing as "prison justice" is said to be, I'm afraid that the real reason that the suspect/his family is afraid of (as another WS-er mentioned in an earlier post today) going to LE is the actual result of what.would.happen should their sterling reputation in the community be tarnished. MOO. (Loss of job, perhaps? Loss of...future trust? Feeling the need to move away? Finding it impossible to continue in whatever the trusting line of work currently is? {Shrug} All entirely speculation on my part.) As a very wise person once said, A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches...

And although LE may *not* have an actual suspect in hand yet, it seems possible (no guarantees) that at least one or more of local LE may have some suspicions regarding who the suspect is (obviously they aren't about to reveal any of that at this time, and we don't want them to until the time is right, much as we all want to see justice done for Abby & Libby). Thus, the sense (though not spelled out in the recent PCs) that LE has, perhaps, felt "betrayed", or that a person/individuals in a position/positions of trust (<-- operative word) within the community have somehow gone against that trust. Entirely JMOO.

If they had a suspect...I don’t know why they make such a muddle about how he might look or what age he might be etc...they could not be any less clear or specific...jmo

 

[MassGuy]

If they had a suspect...I don’t know why they make such a muddle about how he might look or what age he might be etc...they could not be any less clear or specific...jmo

Agreed. We are working with an age range of between 15 and 20 years.

We also have a sketch that may vaguely resemble him.

This lack of specificity is likely because of one thing; they just don’t know.

 

[What if...]

Hi all, long time lurker, first time posting. I’ve been intrigued with this case from the start for several reasons. I’m from Indiana and the murders of these two young girls just hits too close to home for many of us here.
IMO, both the known and unknown make this case one of the most bizarre I have ever seen.

I came across Websleuths while searching for information shortly after the news story first broke. The thought provoking ideas and theories that get discussed here are generally very impressive, and unfortunately, rather addictive!

I wish I could throw out a complete and solid theory as to how all of the events unfolded, but there’s just not enough information for me to do so. However, I do have some thoughts / theories as to how some of the pieces may fit together.

I have not read every thread here, so my opinions may have already been discussed at length, or there may be evidence to the contrary, but here it is... (all of which is MOO)

1) I believe this is not the first time this person has committed murder.
Though it is not unusual for the FBI to get involved early in cases such as this, they have had a very noticeable presence from the onset, and as horrific as the murders of two young girls is, there are too many unsolved heinous murders of young people each and every year. SOMETHING about this case makes it different. IMO, either the crime scene, or the manner of death makes them believe they are dealing with a larger than normal threat and I wouldn’t be surprised if it ties back to the IA case. Irregardless, the posting of billboards nationwide is both impressive and concerning.

2) IMO, the released audio doesn’t occur at the bridge. I believe it takes place at the top of the hill above where they were found.
I say this for several reasons...
Firstly, it just doesn’t make sense to me. IF the killer is organized, then I don’t believe he would start an abduction at a point knowing that he would need to control two individuals through rough terrain to get them to his preselected location. IF he was disorganized, I don’t believe he would have the patience to take them to a destination that far away - his impulse and adrenaline would have overcome him and it probably would have occurred right there below the bridge.
Many have speculated that the manner in which he uses the term “guys” suggests familiarity. I don’t totally disagree, but IMO, it’s more of familiarity because he has already gained control- and he knows it.
How they ended up on the other side is anyone’s guess. Perhaps they chose to go a different direction because one of them didn’t want to cross the bridge again. Maybe they felt safer trying to distance themselves from BG. Maybe they were driven from the bridge to the graveyard. ???

3) In regards to the change from the old sketch to the new sketch, I firmly believe that OBG has been identified. There have been several arrests lately for other crimes in which many people believe the accused perpetrator(s) resembles OBG - perhaps one of them is. If he has been identified, it’s very possible that he had his own unrelated reasons for not being found. Once found, he may have provided additional information regarding BG or other elements of this case.

Sorry for such a lengthy post, it’s definitely not what I had intended!

ALL JUST MOO

 

[IAdoreDelano]

"The sketch isn’t a photograph. A sketch is a sketch and that’s really important for everybody to understand," Carter said. "I believe that the individual when we catch him, it will be a combination of those two.”

Is Carter saying that they believe the individual responsible for this is expected to physically resemble both sketches combined, or am I misunderstanding?

 

[Tripod]

Hi all, long time lurker, first time posting. I’ve been intrigued with this case from the start for several reasons. I’m from Indiana and the murders of these two young girls just hits too close to home for many of us here.
IMO, both the known and unknown make this case one of the most bizarre I have ever seen.

I came across Websleuths while searching for information shortly after the news story first broke. The thought provoking ideas and theories that get discussed here are generally very impressive, and unfortunately, rather addictive!

I wish I could throw out a complete and solid theory as to how all of the events unfolded, but there’s just not enough information for me to do so. However, I do have some thoughts / theories as to how some of the pieces may fit together.

I have not read every thread here, so my opinions may have already been discussed at length, or there may be evidence to the contrary, but here it is... (all of which is MOO)

1) I believe this is not the first time this person has committed murder.
Though it is not unusual for the FBI to get involved early in cases such as this, they have had a very noticeable presence from the onset, and as horrific as the murders of two young girls is, there are too many unsolved heinous murders of young people each and every year. SOMETHING about this case makes it different. IMO, either the crime scene, or the manner of death makes them believe they are dealing with a larger than normal threat and I wouldn’t be surprised if it ties back to the IA case. Irregardless, the posting of billboards nationwide is both impressive and concerning.

2) IMO, the released audio doesn’t occur at the bridge. I believe it takes place at the top of the hill above where they were found.
I say this for several reasons...
Firstly, it just doesn’t make sense to me. IF the killer is organized, then I don’t believe he would start an abduction at a point knowing that he would need to control two individuals through rough terrain to get them to his preselected location. IF he was disorganized, I don’t believe he would have the patience to take them to a destination that far away - his impulse and adrenaline would have overcome him and it probably would have occurred right there below the bridge.
Many have speculated that the manner in which he uses the term “guys” suggests familiarity. I don’t totally disagree, but IMO, it’s more of familiarity because he has already gained control- and he knows it.
How they ended up on the other side is anyone’s guess. Perhaps they chose to go a different direction because one of them didn’t want to cross the bridge again. Maybe they felt safer trying to distance themselves from BG. Maybe they were driven from the bridge to the graveyard. ???

3) In regards to the change from the old sketch to the new sketch, I firmly believe that OBG has been identified. There have been several arrests lately for other crimes in which many people believe the accused perpetrator(s) resembles OBG - perhaps one of them is. If he has been identified, it’s very possible that he had his own unrelated reasons for not being found. Once found, he may have provided additional information regarding BG or other elements of this case.

Sorry for such a lengthy post, it’s definitely not what I had intended!

ALL JUST MOO

Very good post, and glad you came out of lurker mode

 

[sunshineray]

LE will never say there’s danger in a community unless there’s a known active threat such as a lunatic walking the streets shooting at anyone who he crosses paths with.

Worst case scenario - an innocent person who vaguely resembles the suspect gets shot, stabbed or bludgeoned to death because somebody believes they have the right to defend themselves from danger. Creating an environment of panic, fear and pandemonium is far more dangerous to a community than simply asking them to identify and submit tips for an unsolved murder suspect.

Besides, it’s the role of LE to keep the community safe by arresting people who break the law, which is what everyone knows they’re seeking to do. JMO

It's also their responsibility to respond to emergencies, and provide support services.

 

[sunshineray]

“This is very personal to me. And maybe it’s because I’m in the sunset of my career, but it’s the epitome of evil," Carter said. "Those two girls, once we tell you all we know about them you might understand a little bit more about why it’s so emotional, but I think of Abby and Libby all the time. I have their names etched in my desk.

ISP: We're 'one tip away' from solving Delphi murders

The recording was earlier described as “the stuff of nightmares” and now DC describes the murders as the “the epitome of evil”. This makes my blood run cold.

Carter has obviously been deeply touched by this case and I applaud his absolute dedication to finding this monster.

In just the few times LE has spoken about the scene it's clear they're looking for a monster, less than human, hiding in plain site and relishing what he percieves as a game with LE. AJMO

 

[Theforeigner]

Has there ever been a timeline of all activity in the case based on LE statements and/or family interviews? If so, could someone point me there please? I started one, but have so much to catch up on (the 10th thread till the Apr 22 PC) and I’m sure I’m missing things.

I have a made a very detailed timeline for feb 13th, based on family interviews, from 10AM till 5:20PM.
Yesterday I PM'ed moderator Tricia and asked if I am allowed to post it, but I have not heard back from her yet, when I do, and hopefully get permission, I will post it.

Just got info that I will get answer from moderator tomorrow tuesday.

 

[Charlot123]

(Font colored blue for emphasis by me)
@Charlot123: As awful a thing as "prison justice" is said to be, I'm afraid that the real reason that the suspect/his family is afraid of (as another WS-er mentioned in an earlier post today) going to LE is the actual result of what.would.happen should their sterling reputation in the community be tarnished. MOO. (Loss of job, perhaps? Loss of...future trust? Feeling the need to move away? Finding it impossible to continue in whatever the trusting line of work currently is? {Shrug} All entirely speculation on my part.) As a very wise person once said, A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches...

And although LE may *not* have an actual suspect in hand yet, it seems possible (no guarantees) that at least one or more of local LE may have some suspicions regarding who the suspect is (obviously they aren't about to reveal any of that at this time, and we don't want them to until the time is right, much as we all want to see justice done for Abby & Libby). Thus, the sense (though not spelled out in the recent PCs) that LE has, perhaps, felt "betrayed", or that a person/individuals in a position/positions of trust (<-- operative word) within the community have somehow gone against that trust. Entirely JMOO.

@Tiger Stripes,

Your guess is as good as mine.

But either way, for those people, still, there is only one moral way out. And let us hope that justice for Abby and Libby, two young teenagers, slain on their day out of school, will prevail.

 

[tresir2012]

How familial DNA trapped a murderer for the first time

This article is interesting regarding how a murderer was tracked down via DNA in UK.

Eventually this killer will be caught as well. It seems you can't escape the DNA net but it may take some time.

 

[MDATCA]

Marking myself safe, and still reasonably sane, from having followed this case on social media all weekend. All the logic, reason, discretion, and grammar! is here on WS. Craziness abounds outside of the decorum shown here in these threads.

I have said it before and will say it again that many on Facebook make up facts, take rumors as fact and refuse to accept they are wrong on so many levels. Not to mention the off the wall aliens, wendigo and shapeshifter believers. I saw one person linking moon phases and possible werewolf attacks. Then we have the finger pointers after searching social media for so.eone who resembles the sketch. No wonder LE is frustrated with some of the tips.