Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

[Krwiley60]

I recall mention of a hitchiker and backpack very early on and I believe it was something said in a PC. I'll try to find it. Who hitchhikes these days, let alone, picks a up a hitchiker? It seems that was discussed in these threads early on, too, but I could be mistaken.

I could be mistaken too, but didn’t a woman say she pulled over for a hitchhiker the night of the murders? I feel like she said she only rolled her window down part way to ask if there was someone she could call for him. Was this a rumor? I remember thinking, who pulls over for a hitchhiker?

 

[Cutiekitty]

I’ll admit I can’t even watch the animated one.

But GH has another video, the route Kelsi took to drop off the girls. Best as I can tell, it appears they were not dropped off at the head of the Monon High Bridge trail. I notice a gate and it looks like the same place Libby’s dad went to pick them up.

I think this access beside the Gerard Nature Reserve is the same one mentioned in a later media report, about the landowners closing it to public access, something about their home renovations being complete and too many people hanging around there. I believe it’s the same landowner who’s barn has been mentioned many times in the past (not RL’s).

Does anyone remember what I’m referring to or help me find it because I’d really like to read it again.

They were having their home renovated? Did not know this. Just when I think I’m kind of caught up I realize I’m still so far behind.

 

[IceyIllusion]

I'm not buying the whole Satanist thing. That relies on the fact that he had every intention to go after Abby and there would have been many other opportunities to get her alone. I believe this was a crime of opportunity (with regards to the actual victim), I am still not sure where I stand on whether he was there for the sole purpose of murder that day...

 

[MassGuy]

Well, we know they were murdered and left in the middle of a cold park by themselves. That's pretty much the work of a monster to me, even with a COD that's not particularly unique.

Yeah, how the girls died is irrelevant to the characterization of this guy being “a monster.”

However he did it, he murdered two young teenage girls. That’s the definition of monstrous.

That doesn’t happen with any regularity, not in major cities, and certainly not in small rural towns.

Not with these circumstances anyways.

 

[steeltowngirl]

That just doesn’t happen.

That whole Satanism hysteria of the 80s and 90s, derailed countless investigations, and led to several false convictions.

I blame Maury and Geraldo for feeding that frenzy.

It caused a lot of harm, and was mostly baseless.

Was baseless, and still is. But I’m quickly speed reading the pages with this topic, because I have a feeling they will all have been mass deleted by tomorrow morning. Lol

 

[x_files]

We had pages and pages about this early on in the discussion. They may have been removed since then.

I can't imagine an actual Satanist committing such a crime just because of her name; for starters, the Satanists I've known have a pretty sympathetic attitude towards the women who were killed in Salem (as well as for any small group that bucks the system when it comes to religion) and the consensus has always been that they were innocent victims who weren't "witches" at all. Satanism, Wicca, Paganism, and a lot of the more nature-based religions aren't the violent groups that you see on television. That's Hollywood. (As well as part of the Satanic Panic of the 1980s.)

Maybe I should clarify not a Satanist part of an organized group but someone who thinks they are chosen either by God or Devil to carry out their bidding (delusional).

 

[pepper 34]

What if the hitchhiker was the witness?

What if he saw BG prior to the crime face-to-face and that's why LE asked early on if anyone had seen a hitchiker?

LE needed to have someone else confirm the hitchiker's story that the hitchiker had been in the area.

I think that maybe the hitchiker was the person whe 'saw something that needed to be reported' and early on...LE followed this up.

I don't think that the hitchiker was ever a suspect....perhaps due to height or build.

The sketch came approx. 4 days later and the shout-out to see if anyone saw a hitchiker was about a week after the murders.

They were checking out the hitchikers story...and at the time, they dismissed what the hitchiker said.

This is one of the things that I can think of that they were 'onto something early on' per Carter.

JMO

I've never read anywhere in MSM, anything about a hitchhiker actually being in the area that day. LE asked the public if anyone had seen a hitchhiker or someone walking along any of the roads in the area that day. I'm not aware of any MSM articles or statements from LE verifying a hitchhiker. Has anyone read something different? Are there any links to MSM articles?
ETA: Catching up and found that CutieKitty found an article... that was how I remembered it and I appreciate that someone found the MSM article.

 

[anotherjenny]

I mentioned this in a reply earlier - during the PC (I believe it was the PC could’ve been another recent interview) Carter said we were on to something in the beginning/early on (or something along those lines). He also said to BG, for the past two years you didn’t think we’d change direction and we did (paraphrasing).

What were they looking at before the first sketch was released? What would they be looking at in the very beginning of the investigation? I know they were looking for a hitchhiker and at social media. Anything else?

Backpack

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Or, the guy was given a ride just to where the driver parked at the (now) abandoned building where the driver reached his destination, and hh continued on his way down the highway. They know the vehicle was gone by 5:00 because people were searching for the girls by that time and didn't notice the car there. Sorry, I just keep going back to what they knew early and are circling back to now. Plus, the strange mention of the car at the last PC and giving no description of it. Just asking about the driver.

Boy do I know the feeling of going back to the same stuff time and time again.

I have been on that same dizzy merry-go-round too and I am gonna need a motion-sickness pill soon!

This is my logic:

The key to this second sketch seems to point back to where the perp was most likely sighted, which is the abandoned building. JMO

To the best of my understanding, only one person saw the perp, and I personally don't think it was on the trail that he was seen.

I believe that anyone who saw someone on the trail that they thought was the suspect contributed to describing the person in sketch number one.

It wouldn't make sense (to me) that the perp was the one hitchhiking, as he would need to keep a low profile...so my conclusion is that the hitchiker saw the perp and the car. "They were on to something early on."

Again...JMO....LE needs someone else to validate the hitchikers story about the car before they close in on making an arrest.

They know who it is.

JMO

 

[Nerissa]

yeah not disputing 'monster' label: just gut feeling here: think something truly heinous was done...however, maybe having just read Stephen King's 'the Outsider' & the term 'monster' is influencing me here Anyone who has read it will know that stuff out of the ordinary was done....
sorry to open the pandora's box about Abigail Williams..it IS weird though...and my gut feeling is this guy is into history - and probably loves all that repressive stuff....the judgments & such that allows him to justify his own rage...
Having once been a young gal: breaks my heart they died on Valentine's Day...I think I'll start a tradition of remembering them: with love & lots of hearts
(well, they were found on Valentines day, I should edit)

 

[Cutiekitty]

Boy do I know the feeling of going back to the same stuff time and time again.

I have been on that same dizzy merry-go-round too and I am gonna need a motion-sickness pill soon!

This is my logic:

The key to this second sketch seems to point back to where the perp was most likely sighted, which is the abandoned building. JMO

To the best of my understanding, only one person saw the perp, and I personally don't think it was on the trail that he was seen.

I believe that anyone who saw someone on the trail that they thought was the suspect contributed to the person in sketch number one.

It wouldn't make sense (to me) that the perp was the one hitchhiking, as he would need to keep a low profile...so my conclusion is that the hitchiker saw the perp and the car. "They were on to something early on."

Again...JMO....LE needs someone else to validate the hitchikers story about the car before they close in on making an arrest.

They know who it is.

JMO

Yep

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I've never read anywhere in MSM, anything about a hitchhiker actually being in the area that day. LE asked the public if anyone had seen a hitchhiker or someone walking along any of the roads in the area that day. I'm not aware of any MSM articles or statements from LE verifying a hitchhiker. Has anyone read something different? Are there any links to MSM articles?

Correct.

To my knowledge, LE has not confirmed that there was hitchhiker.

But they sure stopped asking very quickly after the flyer/announcement went out.

JMO

 

[JDough]

I'm sorry if this was already talked about earlier. Has the ISP held every PC in the local Medodist Church? Just that last one?

If I am not mistaken, it was only the first press conference. However; the church has hosted vigils/food drives and remembrance ceremonies for both girls, as a well as funeral services for Libby. (Abby's family elected to have a private ceremony).

 

[Nerissa]

Bradfordsleuth - I sure hope you're right

 

[steeltowngirl]

Correct.

To my knowledge, LE has not confirmed that there was hitchhiker.

But they sure stopped asking very quickly after the flyer/announcement went out.

JMO

In all fairness, LE hasn’t confirmed a lot of things. We are left to interpret much of the info that has been released.

And yes, I understand why... but just sayin’...

 

[rosesfromangels]

That's if his parents/family have a conscience. What if they aren't a functional normal family? What if generational abuse is at play here?

We have example after example of people who were horrifically abused as children who have gone on to contribute significantly to society. Joyce Meyer and Dale Pelzer ("A Child Called It") come to mind, but there are many others, and many we don't know about who have become incredibly compassionate adults because they understand the pain of others.

This being said, those with organic brain disorders who have criminal tendencies or behavior, are a very challenging issue to society. The laws that protect their civil rights and privacy are also the laws that put the general public at risk. It's a complex and very difficult societal issue.

Here's a good article from Psychology Today from 2012 that is quite good in explaining some of the behaviors of those most threatening to society. (Caution: some foul language when quoting Ted Bundy):

The Making of a Serial Killer

As far as the killer/s of Abby & Libby, I don't care whether his head is messed up or whether he has abuse in his background. Put him on a chain gang and see if that helps regulate his brain functioning. Remove him from society!

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[OldLadyBlues]

Yep

I agree whole heartedly agree that LE is to verification of something known; whether it's the car, BG or something we don't even know about. And when that happens, this case will speed up greatly.
IMHO

 

[rosesfromangels]

Or if they're in complete denial? Or, like many killers' wives/mothers/partners/children, they legitimately do NOT suspect anything is wrong?

Or, they are trying to avoid the incredible shaming and ostracizing that is inevitable, and maybe even worse. The Perp's family will have to leave town, no doubt. He is destroying three families, not just Abby and Libby's.
What a Coward.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Jabarn]

Or, the guy was given a ride just to where the driver parked at the (now) abandoned building where the driver reached his destination, and hh continued on his way down the highway. They know the vehicle was gone by 5:00 because people were searching for the girls by that time and didn't notice the car there. Sorry, I just keep going back to what they knew early and are circling back to now. Plus, the strange mention of the car at the last PC and giving no description of it. Just asking about the driver.

If there is anything I don’t think has been examined thoroughly is the underbelly of the town. Transients, hitchhikers, the disenfranchised, homeless, drug users. (Nothing against any of these people who have found themselves in a hard place).

Any of these could have been around the scene at the time and would not be thought of as a great witness, especially compared to the actual evidence caught on Libby’s phone. Hindsight and IMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

They were having their home renovated? Did not know this. Just when I think I’m kind of caught up I realize I’m still so far behind.

The home was at the trail access that was later closed, if my memory is correct, because it went through private property.