Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

[missmargot]

Perfect analogy! And, I tend to agree with you on your point, being, he was not initially linked to the bridge at all and now something has changed that?

Yes, that’s what I’m leaning towards. Beyond that, I have no clue.

 

[Rocky1]

Hi all, long time lurker first time posting. This is probably going to be a really long post, as I want to get everything I’ve been pondering on here to see what you guys think.

Everything below is my amateur opinion and speculation, nothing is to be taken as fact.

I wonder with the new sketch, if NBG is towards the younger end of the age range given by investigators. I’m thinking somewhere around 18 at the time the murders were committed, as he would possibly be more free to come and go from his parents house without having to explain where he’s going or what he’s doing. Following this train of thought, the following is just me trying to think of a different possibility that I have not seen posted. (This case is what brought me to websleuths, so I’ve read a good majority of the earlier threads, but could have missed some of this being discussed or forgotten about it as we are on thread #103 now...)

Maybe BG was a high schooler that had the day off as well. I wonder if he had been playing around with different nefarious fantasies in his head and the day the girls were murdered, was him acting out on these fantasies.

As far as his disguise, if he was a high schooler, I could see him borrowing dad’s clothes to disguise himself as being older than he actually was.

I wonder if he went to the bridge with the intention of kidnapping someone, as it would be a popular hangout spot for teens. I also wonder if he had an extra change of “just in case” clothes in his car.

I don’t believe that he would have parked at the old abandoned DCS building, as that would have been a bit of a walk for him to get to while controlling whomever he ended up trying to abduct. To me, the spot that makes the most sense for him to park his vehicle is somewhere along the highlighted road that TL4S was kind enough to post. (I had to steal your picture and upload it myself because I couldn’t figure out how to reply to your thread and include the picture. Sorry if this is not allowed, I wanted it to be easier for you guys to see the image I was referencing. Again thanks TL4S for uploading the image.)

I believe that he passed the girls going NB on the bridge and then turned around as some have speculated. This is what makes the most sense to me. If his car was parked somewhere along that path, it would be easier to get someone back to the vehicle without being spotted by other trail goers, plus it wouldn’t arouse suspicion from the girls immediately as they could have thought it was someone that had been walking the trails and was going back over the bridge to get to their car and leave.

I believe LG’s hinky meter went off as he turned around on the bridge and she was able to think quickly about getting her phone out and recording him. I believe she was waiting on AW to get off of the bridge before they ran, as it has been stated by family that the girls would not leave each other. I also don’t think AW was aware of the urgency that she needed to get off of the bridge, as she would have had her back to BG and not seen him turn around, and LG couldn’t really say anything without tipping BG off that she knew he was going to do something.

With LG being aware enough to get video, I believe they knew the rule of not letting your abductor get you to a second location.

I believe he caught up to AW and LG at the south end of the bridge and was trying to get them to go right towards his parked vehicle along the highlighted path. Instead, I believe the girls took off to the left, as it would be impossible for them to run back across the bridge due to its instability.

I believe their intention was to run the way they went, over the river and through the cemetery to get back to the main road and head towards the drop off location, hoping to find someone to help them, and having the video to show LE the perpetrator that attempted to abduct them.

Unfortunately, I believe BG caught up to them at the cemetery and forced them back down the hill, to where they were found. I believe that’s when the audio that was released was recorded, and I believe that will be all that will be released audio-wise as the video could be nothing but the girls trying to make their desperate escape, which no one needs to hear.

I believe what was supposed to be a smooth abduction turned into a chase to prevent the girls from IDing him and then a rage killing as how could they even have the audacity to think they could escape from him.

I believe that the BG went back the way they came after washing up a bit in the river, and went back to his parked car, changed into his backup clothes and left.

I believe the reason they released a sketch and not a picture is because the only clear shot they have of his face, that AW was in the frame at an angle that it would be impossible to crop or edit her out. I believe this was at the south end of the bridge right before they made a run for it.

I don’t believe that BG had a gun, I tend to lean more towards a knife as it wouldn’t seem odd for someone to be carrying a knife on their person. I live 1 1/2 hours away from Delphi and it wouldn’t strike me odd at all if I saw someone carrying a knife on them. Most of the guys I know have at least a pocket knife on them for multiple uses.
It would make sense to me that he could have slit their throats and left them in the river to drown. I believe AW wasn’t fully deceased so she tried to crawl towards the cemetery to get help, and succumbed to her injuries in the process.

I believe the hair on NBG in the newest sketch is just a generic hairstyle, much like how they “plug in” hair and eye color when doing a facial reconstruction on a John/Jane Doe’s skull. As he was wearing a hat in the video, it would make sense that they would have the face, but have to “plug in” a generic hairstyle to make the sketch look complete. I believe they left the hat off to give a “cleaner” look to the sketch and make it look more like what BG looks like normally.

I also believe that the request for the information about the vehicle was an appeal to the witness that came forward a few days after the girls were discovered. I believe the witness was one of BG’s friends that was hanging out at the freedom bridge with other teens most of the day. I believe that BG came and met up with them after the murders to create an alibi. I could see BG acting weird once there were searchers out there so quickly, and it striking the friend as odd enough to call in a tip.

I believe his story was dismissed early on as either BG had someone to give him an airtight alibi as to where he was before he met up with his buddies, or because there were more witnesses on the trail that were describing someone that looked more like OBG. As the case seems to have more investigators going back over it with “fresh eyes”, I believe someone caught this information that had been previously disregarded or forgotten, and now they are smacking theirselves in the face as to why it was overlooked earlier. I also believe that the friend came back in and was requestioned with LE taking their statement more seriously this time, since they are no longer requesting information on the vehicle.

I believe them saying that they’re “one tip away” is them appealing to whomever has given BG their airtight alibi. I believe it is them telling the person to stop covering for him, can’t you see he is a monster? Look at what he did to these poor girls.

I believe the reason that no one is jumping up and pointing a finger to him is because he, in a way, is similar to Ted Bundy, in the sense that he seems like a completely normal person in his day to day life. I believe he is one of those kinds of people that the locals are looking at his similarities to the sketch, but then saying “oh it couldn’t be him, he’s the nicest guy in town, always going out of his way to help others. He’s smart and is going places, there’s no way he would be behind something so heinous.”

I also agree with other posters that he is the kind of person that can lie seamlessly, without anyone ever questioning his lies. I believe he is someone that has worked hard on his everyday appearance to people so that when he did act out on his fantasies, no one would ever think to question him. I believe that when he is caught, there are going to be a lot of people that are completely flabbergasted that he was behind it.

Everything above is MOO. Just throwing my thoughts out there, please feel free to pick it apart because it seems like every other avenue has been exhausted.

Praying today is the day we catch this monster.

Welcome. I like your post.
Everything you posted may be true, however...
One thing I had thought of is if this guy was still in school, or around the 18 year old mark, and had someone back up an alibi that was the same age bracket, then it would no longer be a secret because kids that age talk.

 

[Rocky1]

No problem on the photo...glad it could help!

I like some of your points. One thing, though, IMO, if the "down the hill" was said after a chase, I think you'd hear more anger and breathlessness in his voice? JMO

I'd be willing to bet that LE knows due to the time passed between the photo snap and the recording.

 

[Angelcat13]

It appears the FBI have been managing the tips, other than for the first few days.

Feb 23, 2017
“The toll free, anonymous phone number to call in tips hasn’t changed, but calls will now be answered at the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Major Case Contact Center. Also, callers will have to follow a few prompts to report their information.

The people working at the Delphi call center were dispatchers from Carroll County and surrounding counties that were volunteering their time, whereas the FBI call center has hundreds of workers. Indiana State Police Sgt. Dave Bursten says the switch to the FBI call center allows local workers to focus on their other duties and get some rest...”
FBI now handling Delphi double murder tip line


“Every tip received about Libby and Abby’s murders gets entered into the FBI system called “Pyramid.” That system stores information like names, descriptions and motives so it can be cross-referenced with other tips...
...When certain violent crimes occur anywhere in the country – like murder or assault – police departments enter very specific information about those crimes into a secure system run by the FBI.

That system then looks for potential connections to other crimes.”
Delphi investigator: We wont leave any stone unturned

Great post! I especially appreciate your info about the FBI "Pyramid" system!

 

[Jamie737]

I'd be willing to bet that LE knows due to the time passed between the photo snap and the recording.

I must still wonder if they actually did cross the river at all.

Only LE can know from roughly where the command to go down a Hill was given. We have no idea what the time delay is between the new gift of “Guys” and “down the hill”. It could be minutes.

 

[Angelcat13]

yes, that as well..completely and absolutely clueless. Have zero idea he is a killer.

I think his family has probably had several instances where they feel a sudden, intense feeling that stops their heart and feels like an icy wave rushes through their mind. It is in this instance that they KNOW. But I also believe that their thinking isn't completely "normal" (the apple doesn't fall far from the tree) and they are able to convince themselves that either he didn't do it or, if he did, he won't do it again and he has "so much to give this world" that it is better to not turn him in so he can continue with his "amazing calling".

 

[Cutiekitty]

I'm willing to get on board with this for a minute. So let's say the vehicle wasn't BG's. And he didn't walk the trail. Where did he come from?

He either had a vehicle somewhere else, or he lived within walking distance of the trail. But how did he know the girls were there?

Snapchat. We know they posted at least one pic to LG’s story. If she added him he’d see exactly where she was at 2:07.

Just a bit of background info on SC so the board won’t get clogged up. Per SC’s law enforcement guideline, SC can not search for users by profile name. They have to have a user name which is created by the user. The first name can be uytfdQ445 and the last name can be grgfgfgd.

If LG was SC friends with BG and he put in a ridiculous name she can change his name to whatever she wants to so on her end she sees first name John last name dough. It’s like adding contacts in your phone. You assign a name to a number. With SC the phone number is the user name and the name you assigned it is the profile name. LE can see your contacts and see who looked at your story, but they are going to see whatever you have listed as the profile name. At one time my ex was three poop emojis (I was mad at the time - it has since been changed to something appropriate).

Edit: typo

 

[Cutiekitty]

The cemetery does not provide good access to the NW end of the bridge.

No it doesn’t, but the DPS/CPS building does not provide good access to the crime scene either. BG wasn’t exactly risk averse so who knows.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Yes, that's it. Thank you! Like many other things, it is somewhat convoluted.

The importance of the car also ties into why police now believe the killer is local. Riley said after reviewing many tips, investigators determined he was able to get around quickly on the day the girls were killed, and seemed to know the area.

I wonder if witnesses spotted the car in more than one location that afternoon.

We are definitely thinking the same

 

[carbuff]

Great post! I especially appreciate your info about the FBI "Pyramid" system!

This is probably how the shooting in St. Louis was tied to the girls' murder. It would have immediately flagged the match in the suspect's clothing.

 

[TL4S]

Sorry if this has been asked, but what about the storage place across the street from where the girls were dropped off? Was that there in Feb 2017?

 

[Cutiekitty]

Yeah convoluted it is. I don’t know what “get around” is supposed to mean because a car parked from noon to 5pm isn’t dashing anywhere, in or out, quickly.

I thought the suspect was considered local because of his knowledge of the trails? But if so, LE should’ve known that from the beginning. My only other guess is it comes from what this witness noticed, whatever it was they thought LE should know at the time the tip was initially made.

They didn’t say it was there from noon to five they said between the hours of noon to 5. Could’ve been there from noon to 3 or any other time span between those hours.

The witness that noticed something might have nothing to do with the car. I’ve been assuming they were related since the PC, these might actually be related to 2 different tips.

 

[sumzero]

its all getting a bit farcical now....i don't think the LE have a clue anymore.....i think mistakes have been made over the years meaning its nigh on impossible now to make head or tail of the supposed goings on

In my experience, when a case goes cold and info is scarce, the theories get wilder and more far-fetched.

I cannot help but think of the Closs case. LE was hampered by the fact that JP had no prior association with JC. He was a loner, living "off the grid," outside Barron County. I wonder if something similar is true of BG. No prior association with the girls. No cell phone or social media trail. Maybe BG's a loner and, though he has a past connection with Delphi, now lives outside the general area. If so, LE may not even be close to IDing him.

 

[Backstroke10]

I wonder if biking in Delphi is a normal thing. The past two cities I have lived in you throw on 2 layers (which BG looks to be wearing at least 2) and you grab your bike and go. No matter what time of the year. A bike would be easy to stash behind a tree or brush without it ever being spotted.

I was wondering about the same thing and posted in an earlier thread about a bicycle. I agree with you. A bike is easy to hide, makes no sound and he could quickly hop on it and ride away. MOO

 

[Blue Amethyst]

The Indiana State Police made it as clear as they could, imo.

Excerpt from the ISP Bulletin:

New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect

"Look at the sketch, listen to the audio, watch how this coward walks on the high bridge and send your tip to this email: byandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com "

"This is the face of the suspect that goes with body of the video captured on Liberty German's cell phone minutes before she and Abigail Williams were murdered"

So this face goes with the body wearing the blue jacket and blue jeans. If the sketch of the OBG was put together from several witnesses wouldn’t one of them have said..that is not what he was wearing when the posters went out. How could they have been wearing identical clothes if they are two different people?

Back in 2011 a young Asian man arrived in Canada from Hong Kong. However he had boarded the plane wearing a thin latex mask that made him appear to be an elderly Caucasian man. What gave him away? The old man had young hands. Far fetched but is it possible?

 

[Boxer]

I’m wondering how busy would the cemetery have been between 12 and 5 on a Monday?

If BGs vehicle was the one parked at the CPS/DPS building there are a lot more people that could’ve seen it. People coming to walk the trails, people just driving by, people on the highway. That seems like a riskier spot than the cemetery.

MOO both places seem too public
for a premeditated plan.

 

[BlueShoe]

The importance of the car and tying into why they believe the killer is local... sounds like they believe the car belongs to the killer, at least to me. It allowed them to move around quickly, versus a hitchhiker or someone on foot.

Maybe they know who the car belongs to, but they couldn’t match it up to anyone on the trails that day. Maybe all other persons on the trails were matched to their vehicles, except that one. I hope this makes sense, because now I'm confusing myself. :/

What to make of it, maybe the owner / driver claimed to be elsewhere, if so the car was left there for what reason?

The person apparently gave them the information they were looking for..... Apparently? Maybe regarding their alibi?
Idk, about the time I think I have it figured out, then I don’t.

 

[Cutiekitty]

MOO both places seem too public
for a premeditated plan.

I don’t think it was premeditated. This could change depending on the next PC or interview though.

 

[BlueShoe]

The importance of the car and tying into why they believe the killer is local... sounds like they believe the car belongs to the killer, at least to me. It allowed them to move around quickly, versus a hitchhiker or someone on foot.

Maybe they know who the car belongs to, but they couldn’t match it up to anyone on the trails that day. Maybe all other persons on the trails were matched to their vehicles, except that one. I hope this makes sense, because now I'm confusing myself. :/

What to make of it, maybe the owner / driver claimed to be elsewhere, if so the car was left there for what reason?

The person apparently gave them the information they were looking for..... Apparently? Maybe regarding their alibi?
Idk, about the time I think I have it figured out, then I don’t.

I'm also stuck on the "move around quickly" bit. Could it be something like BG lives in the area but not close by. Maybe he had an alibi for part of the time in question, but then was back at his home sooner than seemed possible. Maybe his alibi was a place that others thought he had walked to, so could not have been at the bridge, but really he drove? Maybe family thought the car was in the garage, or parked somewhere else when really it wasn't. Just another theory which is MOO.

 

[Cutiekitty]

What do you mean? The first sketch does not resemble the suspect, but that does not mean he does not exist.
Unless you mean maybe someone just made up the description based on the video?

I think the photo still from the video heavily influenced the sketch. They could’ve taken a description from the 2 witnesses (they said more that one witness participated in created the OBG) and combined that with what they thought they saw in the photo still and created OBG. May be a mush mash of all that therefore not an actual person.