Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

[gregjrichards]

Several times a year for the past 39 years, but we have older family buried there and have visited at various times of the day and year. My aunt and cousin live less than 5 minutes away and go up there often to clean off the graves.

I mean, I'm not going to argue about it. I'm just sharing personal experience that I have with that specific cemetery. Other cemeteries may be different. I have no idea where BG parked or why he parked where he did.

Thank you for sharing your personal experience mtnlites it is valuable and much appreciated.

 

[MuddyTires]

Thank you mtnlites. I never meant to even remotely imply any bias to any religion or even to religion in general. I also feel that the parents - or whomever may have even an inkling that he is the killer - may not even necessarily be consciously denying that their son/loved one could be a killer. The mind is a powerful thing and it can sometimes work in ways to protect us from what we cannot bear at a particular time.

I'm sorry for misinterpreting where your post was coming from.

Here's another opinion about a post on this thread - my response to yours could fairly be criticized as a knee-jerk reaction that ultimately has little to do with your post.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Well the last time I went was during the day and I guess there just happened to be two police cars there. It's not that LE would necessarily check during the day, but the risk involved on the part of the person parking their car for any length of time. It's a place where one could be seen by others, and I wouldn't think the perp would risk that, especially if parking is only allowed for people visiting.
There are always people coming and going, at any given time, so why take the risk?
I just think this guy made every effort to avoid being seen. At least at an abandoned building there are not usually people parked there, and it was along the road so drivers would be less likely to notice the car. Imo

I don’t have a large frame of reference regarding cemeteries so I’m not sure how LE patrols them. I’m guessing they only patrol if they have received reports of issues.

BBM - I don’t think BG made any effort to avoid being seen.

He parked at an abandoned building visible from both the road and highway. I believe I read is was an unofficial parking spot for people going to the park/trail.

He walked down the bridge totally potentially exposing himself to people bridge level and below.

He didn’t cover his face when approaching the girls which I would think he would’ve done if he was planning on killing them. He had no a way of knowing that he’d be successful. If he only got one the other would’ve been a good witness.

He allowed himself to be captured on video. If LG and AW are anything like my kiddo they didn’t just snap a pic and stop. Mine would’ve had that camera out taking pics or at the very least have the phone in hand totally visible the entire time. This is an assumption based on what I experience all the time. So, just speculation.

Someone else saw him that day doing something weird and they made a sketch. (NBG)

Two other people may have seen him on the trails per GH (OBG influenced by the photo IMO).

 

[MassGuy]

I don’t have a large frame of reference regarding cemeteries so I’m not sure how LE patrols them. I’m guessing they only patrol if they have received reports of issues.

BBM - I don’t think BG made any effort to avoid being seen.

He parked at an abandoned building visible from both the road and highway. I believe I read is was an unofficial parking spot for people going to the park/trail.

He walked down the bridge totally potentially exposing himself to people bridge level and below.

He didn’t cover his face when approaching the girls which I would think he would’ve done if he was planning on killing them. He had no a way of knowing that he’d be successful. If he only got one the other would’ve been a good witness.

He allowed himself to be captured on video. If LG and AW are anything like my kiddo they didn’t just snap a pic and stop. Mine would’ve had that camera out taking pics or at the very least have the phone in hand totally visible the entire time. This is an assumption based on what I experience all the time. So, just speculation.

Someone else saw him that day doing something weird and they made a sketch. (NBG)

Two other people may have seen him on the trails (per GH) video (OBG influenced by the photo IMO).

Yeah, I don’t think he made an effort to avoid being seen either.

If he did, he failed miserably. He did nothing particularly brilliant here.

He knew what he wanted, he knew what he wanted to do, and he did it.

Sometimes bumbling buffoons look like geniuses. He isn’t.

 

[BNA]

Can anybody point me to a link that shows what the prosecutors who might eventually be prosecuting this case are saying or have said?

 

[Krwiley60]

Dear missmargot,

You did say it perfectly.

Someone described features to the police sketch artist that were similar to the B.G. photo - whether "intentionally" misleading the police or not.

Unfortunately the L.E. went with the "misleading" sketch instead of the sketch done by the police (from a witness) a few days after the murders.

I think this is the reason there was anger in Doug Carter's voice during the recent press conference.

They were misled by someone who just described what he/she saw in the B.G. photo which had been released by L.E.

It was like releasing a sketch of someone in costume instead of the person who is in the costume - i.e. showing his face.

There was more than one witness who helped with the sketch of OBG. How could they have all misled LE?

 

[wgram]

No problem on the photo...glad it could help!

I like some of your points. One thing, though, IMO, if the "down the hill" was said after a chase, I think you'd hear more anger and breathlessness in his voice? JMO

BBM Yes I agree. The "Down the Hill" was too calm. I wonder if somehow he had them in his control and was just guiding them to go down the hill. We know they use tactics like.... "Oh hello girls, I need help my dog (fell, ran, or is trapped." Maybe the phone was put in the pocket facing the BG. He might have even not noticed the phone and she ditched it wherever she knew a search team would be.These were two beautiful young ladies and I certainly hope they will get to the truth soon.

 

[gregjrichards]

Can anybody point me to a link that shows what the prosecutors who might eventually be prosecuting this case are saying or have said?

Mr. Nicholas McLelland the Carroll County Prosecutor spoke for the first time about the case at the press conference for the second anniversary on February 13th 2019. We didn’t learn anything new or significant at that one it was basically thanking everyone working the case and asking for tips. Myself and others here were disappointed with it. Mr. Robert Ives was also the lead Prosecutor for a while he retired but he has come back working under Mr. McLelland.

Link to what Mr. Ives has said about the case Indiana teens' killer may have met police, prosecutors say

 

[zencompass]

There was more than one witness who helped with the sketch of OBG. How could they have all misled LE?

No. Just one witness.

Sheriff Leazenby is quoted in the following article:

"Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said the portrait was drawn by an FBI sketch artist and was based on "recent information" from a witness who saw the suspect about the time of German and Williams' deaths."



Police unveil composite sketch of Delphi double homicide suspect

 

[zencompass]

One question I have is why did the L.E. choose the July 2017 sketch (OBG with cap) over the one that was created by a different witness (which is the young clean cut newly released sketch) in February 2017?

What convinced them to go with the sketch of OBG with cap? Was it because of who the witness was?

I hope an answer to this is given when this case is solved - but perhaps they won't be able to explain some of this for confidentiality reasons.

ETA: It doesn't really matter if this is never explained.

All I want is what everyone wants - this monster arrested and behind bars so he can never ever kill again. Justice for Libby and Abby.

 

[Jerrod]

No. Just one witness. Sheriff Leazenby is quoted in the following article: "Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said the portrait was drawn by an FBI sketch artist and was based on "recent information" from a witness who saw the suspect about the time of German and Williams' deaths." Police unveil composite sketch of Delphi double homicide suspect

But investigators also said this in August, 2017, which is why it could be referred to as a composite:

"Sgt. Holeman tells us several people have come forward and said they saw the killer walking on the trails the day Abby and Libby were killed. Those people helped develop a composite sketch that was released last month [July 2017]."

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence

 

[LeeLeeBird]

No. Just one witness.

Sheriff Leazenby is quoted in the following article:

"Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said the portrait was drawn by an FBI sketch artist and was based on "recent information" from a witness who saw the suspect about the time of German and Williams' deaths."
Police unveil composite sketch of Delphi double homicide suspect

And in MOO, that witness, the one person that gave info to the FBI sketch artist that resulted in the first released sketch, is BG.

 

[kkdj]

I totally agree.

That wasn’t about the public, atleast as far as we are concerned.

That was an effort to rattle the killer, and anyone who may harbor suspicions that they know who BG is.

ITA. Plus messages for the family. But basically, to let the killer know they're coming to get him and they know much more than he realizes. And, a message to the person(s) who know.

 

[steeltowngirl]

And in MOO, that witness, the one person that gave info to the FBI sketch artist that resulted in the first released sketch, is BG.

Many threads back, this interview was posted. At 11:10, When Carter is asked if there were any witnesses that saw BG, he responds with “No, there were not”. When exactly did this sketch witness come forward?
Families of murdered Indiana teens open up about still-unsolved case

 

[zencompass]

Composite just means compiling features into a sketch. Police composite sketch artists work with either one witness or many.

The Police Composite Sketch

There have been more than a few discrepancies in the wording of L.E. statements.

I read another quote that the sketch also incorporated parts of the features of the video still (from Libby's phone). I will search for this and post the link. There have been a few quotes but I feel that the link I provided has the strongest and clearest wording.

I find the link I stated to be more solid because it is more specific to what the witness saw and that it was based on "recent information".

"Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said the portrait was drawn by an FBI sketch artist and was based on "recent information" from a witness who saw the suspect about the time of German and Williams' deaths."

Police unveil composite sketch of Delphi double homicide suspect

 

[kkdj]

Yeah, I see what you see.

He doesn’t look particularly fit, nor is he lean.

The only runs this guy goes on, are “beer runs.”

I can't tell his physique with all that garb on.

 

[MassGuy]

I can't tell his physique with all that garb on.

I can only tell that he’s not skinny, but not much more than that. Baggy clothes can make someone look heavier, but not that dramatically.

Ignoring the image, law enforcement is looking for a man that would be borderline overweight, with the physical description they have put out:

► THE SUSPECT: Police continue to look for a white male between 5-foot-6 and 5-foot-10, weighing 180 to 200 pounds, with reddish brown hair

This “runner theory,” appears to be an effort to make the image fit a particular person.

If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work.

And it doesn’t.

 

[sumzero]

And in MOO, that witness, the one person that gave info to the FBI sketch artist that resulted in the first released sketch, is BG.

Some news articles mention "witnesses" (plural) contributed to the sketch. The article linked below identifies one of the witnesses as a woman.

Police release sketch of man accused of murdering Delphi teens Liberty German and Abigail Williams

 

[kkdj]

I can only tell that he’s not skinny, but not much more than that. Baggy clothes can make someone look heavier, but not that dramatically.

Ignoring the image, law enforcement is looking for a man that would be borderline overweight, with the physical description they have put out.

This “runner theory,” appears to be an effort to make the image fit a particular person.

If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work.

And it doesn’t.

BBM
They haven't told us the physical description they had put out is to be dismissed, but they did tell us the 1st sketch of BG is to be ignored, which included physical description. So, are we to assume the height, weight, eyes, hair color are to remain? I'm not sure.

 

[Charlot123]

The odds are that someone knows something, but you’re right, there’s no guarantee that is the case.

This guy, like all killers, will exhibit concerning behavior.

Sometimes people put the pieces together, and sometimes they don’t.

It’s not like in the movies where a predator dons a perfect facade. That doesn’t happen.

But context is important, and sometimes this behavior doesn’t present itself in a way where a member of the public is able to put two and two together.

There’s always other ways to catch him though.

Hopefully there are other ways...

I wonder if the person is from Delphi and no one recognizes him...and LE spoke to over 1000 people, this means, 1/3 of Delphi population.

So either their concept (that he is local) is wrong, or he has unbelievable histrionic skills. Let me ponder over this thought.

There are actors that have this talent of mimicry. (Dustin Hoffman, Marlon Brando, Russell Crowe.) Average people may have it, too. (Not necessarily they are social. In fact, some are the opposite). But the talent to look differently, to be different in different clothes, to stand straight, to hunch, to look different with different haircuts - is a talent.

As to voices, unless it is your friend, voice is usually less memorable. There are voices who sound “younger” or “older” than their age.

I think this person changes because there are several “persons” he plays, or in whose skin he lives. Maybe the voice is different from his real one because he “plays” the killer at this moment.

Hence, what DC said, can probably work both ways. He can look younger, older, hunched, straight, shy, angry, he is probably talented, in a way. Just used talent in the wrong way.

My feeling is, he probably did kill before, but it was a smaller kill, an animal, maybe, in preparation for the “killer’s” role.

He may kill again.

He probably has several roles; not personalities, but roles. Outside of them, he is empty and shallow.