Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

[ab01]

I think part of the reason that BG wasn't seen actually abducting the girls was largely due to the fact that the bridge was at the end of the trail

Couple that with the fact that he cornered them at the far end of the bridge and the chances of being scene are reduced even further

He then quickly got the girls down the hill on the opposite side of the creek away from any trails

They were definitely isolated from normal every day trail traffic IMO

I think there were probably multiple people walking the trails that day, but I'm leaning towards the impressions I get that many people walk the trails but don't actually cross the monon high bridge or even hike all the way to it

There's somewhat of an intersection near the bridge where at least one other trail ( I think two of them) breaks off and heads down toward the creek on the west and east side of the bridge

I think any sightings of BG were either before the crime when BG was heading west from the CPS parking area

Or when he was returning via the trails back to the cps building after committing the crimes

Unfortunately at the time I don't believe that anyone had much reason to be suspicious of BG

I still lean towards the girls being suspicious bc they had likely already passed him once at some point and he was walking up on them towards the end of the bridge

I don't believe he is wearing an type of disguise, I think that people just see what they want to see in the pixilated video images

I think the most recent sketch is probably fairly close to the face that we see in the blurry bridge images

What still baffles me is that as far as we know nobody has been able to tie, the sketch, the audio, and the body of BG from libbys video on the bridge to a specific individual

Thats 3 possible identifying factors that just baffles me that nobody has come forward to say, Thats my neighbor,my delivery guy, coworker, family friend, etc etc

We have seen people come forward and identify a perp with much fewer identifying characteristics

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

There is no honor amongst thieves. I think they’d rat him out in a second if they were colleagues. If they got incarcerated they’d talk to get a reduced sentence. If not, there is a large reward. It’s possible they are so incapacitated by drugs that they weren’t/aren’t even aware of the situation and if they are they just don’t care. JMO

I’m not so sure they’d have a reason to talk. For one thing drugs such as meth are typically gang related and secondly people who push illegal drugs don’t care if they kill the users so is murder really any different. I could imagine somebody who’s high, hanging around with others “all hours of day or night” (according to that media report) on a warm winter day noticing the two girls, going after them, propositioning them or inviting them to join “the party” and becoming outraged and violent at their refusal. Meth users are known for the potential to display volatile rage.

Who would know the bridge better than those who hang out there? The challenge with that type of scenario is it could be someone who wasn’t originally from Delphi and has since moved elsewhere who’s traceable identity was never known by others, even if they reported him. The other challenge LE might be facing is so many people are going after the reward it’s impossible for LE to tell apart one “story” from the next without some type of factual and direct evidence.

 

[FinePrint]

Passed through Delphi last Friday on my way to Indy for the Mecum car auction. Gotta tell you I saw a lot of guys who fit the description of OBG and NBG sketch walking around town. I saw some younger guys wearing similar baggy jeans as seen in the video (they were also wearing those orange reflective work vest). Hate to say it but BG can easily be hiding in plain site, blends right in.

 

[MDATCA]

It is confusing. I wonder if they changed from saying a female witness to witnesses simply as a precaution. Perhaps she or they were worried that her encounter with OBG would have been memorable and that he could come after her to silence her. But if they said there were multiple witnesses, he wouldn’t know who he needed to silence.

I wonder if it is the lady with her dog or the one who stopped to see if someone needed assistance. Because I think it is one of those two.

 

[Angelcat13]

Thanks Angel. <3 Yeah, it's a pretty crappy club to belong to. Definitely not one I'd wish membership upon anybody. Don't know that my husband and I'd still be here without the other two little ones. Sometimes I look at these families whose children have died as a result of crime and I wonder how they're doing it, how they're getting through the day. And then I think, well, probably the same way I did. It's not like you have much of a choice. World keeps spinning, sun keeps coming up, people keep going on with their lives-and that's one of the crappiest things of all. When a child dies it feels like the world SHOULD just come to a complete stop. I spent the first few years being pretty pissed off that it didn't. I can completely understand why many of these families devote their lives to seeking justice or helping others.

I have always been interested in crime, even before my son died (which wasn't a result of a crime). My interest in it has always been in the way investigators doggedly follow leads until they can get justice for the victims and their families. It has also been in making sure that people see the human side of a victim that some may feel deserved less sympathy than some other victims.

I loved Ann Rule's book "Green River, Running Red" because she focused a lot on the human side of the victims that many people only saw as numbers because the majority of them had been involved in prostitution, drugs, etc. Ann humanized many of them so you could see that many of these women had been victimized long before they turned to drugs and prostitution, only to finally become a victim of the the Green River Killer. One story in particular stuck with me - one of the girls was in 8th grade and babysitting when some boys from her school came to the house she was babysitting at. She was raped and was never able to cope with what happened and started to use drugs to self-medicate. Prior to that she was a great student, was in the school band (clarinet, I think), etc. She wasn't a statistic! She was someone's daughter, sister, friend.

None of us ever know how we would deal with some of the things others have to go through. We all come from different places and have different minds, strengths, weaknesses, support systems, etc. "There but for the grace of God go I."

Lastly, although I miss my son dearly and wish he was still here, I am forever grateful that I was with him when he died, I know where he is and what happened, etc. I am not saying that the loss of any child is more tragic than another, but for me I feel so fortunate that I don't have the added pain of wondering what my child may have endured, who did or, like in the case of missing children, are they dead or live?

 

[Angelcat13]

MOO both places seem too public
for a premeditated plan.

On the surface this seems likely. However, if this person is truly "hiding in plain sight" then it seems like he feels he is viewed by others as being "good" and that if anyone did see him AND they saw through his attempt to disguise himself, he would still be able to convince people he couldn't have done something so horrible because he is GOOD.

 

[SilentRogue]

I don’t think that PC was for the public. I think it was directed by numerous INTELLIGENT and INFORMED LEO who have done profiling and know way more about this case than we do. I think they were speaking directly to the perp and/or those who may know him. I could be wrong, but they don’t owe me or the public anything. They want justice more than any of us do. JMO

ETA:spelling

Why would profiling influence the investigation of an identified suspect?

There's really no argument regarding the purpose of the press conference.

A meeting, a phone call, a text message, an email... that's how you communicate with individuals. A press conference is by its nature a communication with the public.

If they were speaking to the assailant, or those who knew him, they'd be doing it directly not through the press.

 

[ab01]

On the surface this seems likely. However, if this person is truly "hiding in plain sight" then it seems like he feels he is viewed by others as being "good" and that if anyone did see him AND they saw through his attempt to disguise himself, he would still be able to convince people he couldn't have done something so horrible because he is GOOD.

I’m not so sure about him being seen as necessarily good

Hiding in plain sight can simply mean that investigators don’t believe that BG moved away and or has deviated from his normal daily activities

I don’t believe the perp will be some outstanding citizen as seen by friends and family

I don’t believe he will have committed any previous serious crimes though either, although I do believe there will be things in his past that will demonstrate that he could possibly be leading up to something like this

Jmo

 

[ab01]

Why would profiling influence the investigation of an identified suspect?

There's really no argument regarding the purpose of the press conference.

A meeting, a phone call, a text message, an email... that's how you communicate with individuals. A press conference is by its nature a communication with the public.

If they were speaking to the assailant, or those who knew him, they'd be doing it directly not through the press.

Yah I don’t believe there has been any communication with LE that they can pinpoint.

They say they have likely interviewed him or someone close to him

That’s based merely off of an fbi profile and the belief that BG is somewhat local imo

 

[Angelcat13]

I'm sorry for misinterpreting where your post was coming from.

Here's another opinion about a post on this thread - my response to yours could fairly be criticized as a knee-jerk reaction that ultimately has little to do with your post.

That's OK. One of the things I absolutely love about Websleuths is that there are so many people from so many different backgrounds and beliefs. All of this diversity allows people to post thoughts, theories, etc from so many perspectives that can be different from mine. We all tend to view things through the lens of our life experiences and it is always good to keep an open mind because someone else may think of something that I had never even thought of or considered, etc. For me, the key is to keep my mind open and this will always be how I can grow.

 

[Krwiley60]

No. Just one witness.

Sheriff Leazenby is quoted in the following article:

"Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said the portrait was drawn by an FBI sketch artist and was based on "recent information" from a witness who saw the suspect about the time of German and Williams' deaths."



Police unveil composite sketch of Delphi double homicide suspect

Thank you for the clarification. I have always heard the sketch was based on an eyewitness and “witness tips”.

 

[TheVisual]

Has anyone thought that MAYBE LE would create a sketch to throw everyone off the sketch of OBG ? Just look at their eyes, nose, forehead book and do this to throw off OBG so that he would think he's in the clear and then maybe make a mistake? (maybe they are watching him already)Yes, it would create work for them but they could just throw all of those tips out the window and they could do their work without us bothering them.

 

[Angelcat13]

Thank you insearchoflight for that links. There are definitely some similarities but most noticeably different to me is it's obvious that Lyric and Elizabeth were snatched from their bikes and taken in a vehicle elsewhere, many miles away.

As far as what I think is the kind of personality that makes the kind of decision BG did, I'm leaning towards him being a bold one, very confident in his ability to get away and very much a planner. I think he most likely was looking for just a single victim that day but Abby's small stature and his own inflated view of himself convinced him he could handle two instead of one. AJMO

There are definite similarities and differences between the cases of Abby & Libby and Lyric & Elizabeth. I am not convinced either way that they are or are not related. A lot of people point to the fact that Lyric & Elizabeth were removed from the probable abduction site and their bodies were found several miles away. However, I have never been convinced that whatever happened to Abby and Libby went like the killer wanted it to go. At this point I don't know if his intent was to kill and get the hell out of there or did he possibly intend to abduct them so he could have more time before disposing of their bodies in another location. If he did intend on abducting them from the park he very well may have been interrupted by family members calling out for them and this caused him to abort his plan and just leave the bodies where they were.

If this is the case, then I still feel there is a possibility the Indiana and Iowa crimes could be connected - but I'm far from convinced either way.

 

[IQuestion]

Hi ‘guys!’ Just wanted to add my two cents on what kind of work the BG may do for a living that would give him the same time off as the kids. School bus driver. I am a school bus driver, and because I’m horrible with names, I use the term ‘guys’ all day long.

COLUMBOWWANNABE Hey there....great to hear from you! I think people who work with young teens use the term "guys" more than anyone else I have ever heard. My office near a "middle school" and I dread the time the "youngins" get out of school. (They can be so loud, silly and unpredictable.... young and stretching their wings of independence for the first time. I cringe as they run across the street, or take a short cut through the alley...ugh. I'm not strange.... just an aging Mommy who can't stop thinking about their safety.) Back to my point... they (teachers, coaches, hall monitors, counselors, school police, office staff, classroom aids etc.) don't use terms like, girls, gals, fellas, boys, young men, young ladies etc..... it is always "gender neutral GUYS"
whether addressing 2 or 20 . (It has always surprised me btw.)

 

[Krwiley60]

But investigators also said this in August, 2017, which is why it could be referred to as a composite:

"Sgt. Holeman tells us several people have come forward and said they saw the killer walking on the trails the day Abby and Libby were killed. Those people helped develop a composite sketch that was released last month [July 2017]."

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence

Ahhh, thank you. I knew I had read this somewhere. Now I’m wondering, who were the “several people”?

 

[janesmith787]

Why would profiling influence the investigation of an identified suspect?

There's really no argument regarding the purpose of the press conference.

A meeting, a phone call, a text message, an email... that's how you communicate with individuals. A press conference is by its nature a communication with the public.

If they were speaking to the assailant, or those who knew him, they'd be doing it directly not through the press.

To clarify...I know it was for them to reveal the new sketch and they're also asking for more tips. But, I more so meant the specific things that he said I believe were for a reason. We don't need to know the reasoning behind everything he said (ex: the shack, you never thought we'd go this direction, etc.) I could very well be wrong, but I trust they know what they're doing, and have done things the way they are for a reason. JMO.

 

[Charlot123]

Yeah, I can’t find a double murder case that has the elements that we have here.

If we take away the incredibly unusual fact that he killed two victims at once, and just focus on the fact that he committed murder, then I can find similarities.

That’s how I’m approaching it, because I believe we are seeing a variation of the same thing.

As a model, I look at killers who target joggers on jogging trails. They tend to share a lot of traits with serial killers, even if they haven’t yet met the criteria for being one.

They see their victim, they make contact with their victim, they drag her off the trail, and commit their grotesque acts under the cover of trees and brush.

There is plenty of precedent for that particular MO.

I think this guy was looking to commit rape, and unfortunately found the girls.

The case I’ve come back to a million times (because it happened near me), is the Vanessa Marcotte murder.

Her killer had no previous criminal history, and simply came upon her jogging.

He pulled over, attacked her, dragged her into the woods, sexually assaulted her, and ultimately beat and strangled her to death.

It was a rural area, and everyone assumed that he must have had a reason to be there (he was likely from there).

Thanks to an accurate physical description (in part) from Parabon, and an alert state police officer who spotted a vehicle that matched one seen in the area, he was ultimately arrested.

It turned out that his delivery route went through that town, and although he was off work that day, he likely (my opinion) drove from his neighboring city to this area where he had previously seen joggers running.

He was probably hunting, and came across a target of opportunity.

I think that’s what we’re looking at here. He just killed two instead of the usual one.

Just because one part of the crime is particularly unusual, doesn’t mean that all of it is. That’s how I see it anyways.

So this is different, but likely the same.

It all makes sense. However, if this is a person familiar with Delphi because of delivery route, would we not expect him to change his route now, to bypass Delphi?

Straight MOO - say, a mailman who suddenly asked to serve a neighborhood city, something like this?

 

[oh my cats]

Just a random thought I have....

It would be interesting from the POV of BG if he was to visit websites such as this, FB groups in relation to the Delphi murders, YouTube vids, etc to see everyone's theory of what he did. He is the only one that knows what, why, and how it happened. I wonder if he gets enjoyment out of seeing all these theories and what he makes of the sketches. He's the only one who knows if someone has hit the nail on the head or come very close to it. Would he be amused by all of it or does he go out of his way to avoid the subject at all cost.

I know it's like who really cares what he thinks but just a thought.

 

[BNA]

In my experience, most buildings housing government offices are owned by private entities. Do we know who owned the CPS building/property?

 

[wary]

Ahhh, thank you. I knew I had read this somewhere. Now I’m wondering, who were the “several people”?

Considering the things that people fantasize and put into print, I hope that the police shelter them and don’t let their names get out to the public.