Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

[tresir2012]

Let's hope that doesn't start a new string of theatrical theories.

And anyway, I don't see anything odd about the way BG was dressed. It seems perfectly normal for the time of year, rural America.

There had to be something strange as they were apparently talking about him on the audio.

 

[TL4S]

There had to be something strange as they were apparently talking about him on the audio.

My guess is his behavior is what struck them as strange, not his clothing. JMO

 

[Cutiekitty]

I was shocked as hell to find out that there was zero online connection between Jayme Closs and JP. I thought for sure that there would be something in SM. There wasn't. And that guy actually did target her.

I didn’t follow that one other than I saw when it happened and saw that they recovered her. Of course I read up on the recovery and motive. Very strange case.

Honestly, the Delphi case is the only case I’ve actually followed outside of ones in my area. I don’t live in a small town so there has definitely been no shortage of cases over the years. When I think about SM and this case I base some of my thoughts on having a kid the same age as the girls, being around young adults, and seeing how the SM angle developed in cases in my area. Just not able to let it go. The next PC or interview could change that though.

Edit: Just wanted to add prior to the April PC this case wasn’t on my radar. I knew about it, but assumed it had been solved. Still working through things that people who’ve been following since the beginning have already worked through.

 

[tresir2012]

My guess is his behavior is what struck them as strange, not his clothing. JMO

My guess both. If you compare how the girls were dressed to him he is overdressed IMO.

 

[Charlot123]

I am just trying to figure out what causes a person to find "power in murder" as opposed to a person who finds power in personal, professional, financial, academic, athletic sector etc. accomplishments? Does this person look for "power in taking a life" because they feel powerless in their life? Or are their brains so jumbled they can never understand that life is precious?

MOO - I think they start daydreaming about sex, and maybe in some sadistic, violent forms, as testosterone kicks in. Perhaps sadism comes from *advertiser censored* sites? Not sure. Several of them had possible first kills around that age, 13 or 14, or sometimes it is suspected but never confirmed.

There are many adult people who are involved in sexualized play and that is all; but serial killers, if anything, are repressed, and don't have normal sex experience. Often their first experience is with prostitutes. Some get STDs from prostitutes and get angry with them (or all women); some simply can't ask what they really want even from prostitutes. So they start hunting real women, alone, off the beaten path. Often SA includes torture or rape. Some kill and return back to the place later. Some just kill and get so scared that they run away. With time, I think, they get more adept at what they want.

[In fact, there probably is the time when they want to stop. They enjoy the kill, but they don't enjoy the fact that they kill. For those who want to stop, the first thing is to remove anything that would remind them of the ritual (e.g. computer if they visit *advertiser censored* sites, or are somehow turned on by violent games - go to the library if you want to get online). Also, one must find something that would take their mind off the obsession (like, get a dog, and each time your mind gets on that path, take a dog for a walk, or play with the dog; leave the house). In fact, there should be the whole list of "favorite" things to do to distract. If people are in colleges, it is better to join a frat, or share an apartment with someone, not to stay alone. There are groups, that may not be related to the obsession (as far as I know, there is nothing like "Killers anonymous", but something like "gamers anonymous", or "gamblers anonymous" would do - something that would create a "club" and a support group). And of course, if someone really wants to stop, they have to burn their "sets" or "kits" or whatever they have].

(It is just my idea, in the context of OCD component. I don't know if it really works).

 

[tresir2012]

Good question. Seems highly risky and I can't think of a good answer unless somehow the suspect thought he'd make a mistake by trying to dispose of it somewhere else. Perhaps he just knew he could at some point later? Does anyone remember someone around the investigation (possibly Leazenby) that talked about the suspect moving around a lot? I can't remember, but I'll look.



Thanks MsBetsy. I wasn't sure how many towers were located around the area and if their positions/equipment would provide data for triangulation or not.

Pinging around town was mentioned by MP on the evening of the day the girls went missing. Is that the quote you meant?

 

[MistyWaters]

My guess is his behavior is what struck them as strange, not his clothing. JMO

The “mention” could’ve been as simple as “somebody’s behind us on the bridge, hope he turns back”. That he didn’t is why I think the girls continued walking to the end, even if they hasn’t intended to. There was something about him that caused them not to want to walk back, which would’ve required them to pass him midway on the high, narrow bridge.
JMO

 

[Cutiekitty]

I've seen it quoted as 40 minutes (which I believe came from a rumor and isn't verifiable at all) and 8 minutes. The problem is that several of Libby's family members have answered questions about some of these things outside of MSM so finding a MSM link to back it up is difficult.

Regardless, the original question that I was replying to asked if there was additional audio/video and the answer to that is yes. Here are the sources:

In this article more audio is mentioned. It would appear that this audio was recorded before their attack.

Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family





And this one points to more.

ISP: More audio recovered from slain Delphi teen's phone



And this one is interesting because it says that the audio may say something about the crime, but it doesn't specify if the additional video referenced was taken before Libby started recording BG or after. It IS interesting that he states that BG "approached them" on the bridge. I don't think I've seen that before.

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence




It doesn't specify how long here, but it is said that there is more. I'll keep trying to find the other link.

Started watching the Holeman interview last night and I thought it was very interesting. Early on LE was having issues with the side by sides, blogs, etc....and how they influenced tips.

 

[mtnlites]

My guess both. If you compare how the girls were dressed to him he is overdressed IMO.

He actually doesn't look that overdressed to me. We keep hearing that it was a "nice" day, but that's in the context of February's weather. It was still 40s, low 50s. That is not warm weather to me-that's jacket, long-sleeve wearing weather. To my kids, however, it's a heat wave and they're throwing on the shorts.

He may very well have been trying to cover up to avoid being recognized, but if I'd passed him on the trail that day he wouldn't have stood out to me as being overdressed. It's windy on the bridge.

 

[MistyWaters]

Pinging around town was mentioned by MP on the evening of the day the girls went missing. Is that the quote you meant?

To the literal definition of “pinging”, that’s how LE are able to locate a victim with a cellphone. But in this case the phone went dead before LE could ping her phone, about the same time the missing persons report was made iirc.

“Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said crews began canvassing the area and tried pinging the girls' cell phones into the evening hours but had no success in finding them. The sheriff said they believed the girls' phones were either dead or turned off.”
DELPHI TIMELINE: The search for Libby & Abby's killer

 

[nearsouth]

Pinging around town was mentioned by MP on the evening of the day the girls went missing. Is that the quote you meant?

Yep I remember MP saying it, but wondered if it was said by anyone in LE at all? I know there was a lot of anecdotal stuff out there that night (13th).

The 'around town' part makes me think it's possible that it was, but it could just be the way he said it meaning the phone was still powered for a while. I'd love to know for sure, it would add a crazy wrinkle to the case...

 

[Cutiekitty]

I also have appx 2:30pm in my head as well, when the video was taken. I’m almost certain the information came from a media appearance by the family members but I’ve not been successful in locating the exact source.

In one of the GH videos he talks about someone seeing something at the bridge at 2:30 (he didn’t seem to believe whomever it was). Maybe that’s where it came from?

 

[Charlot123]

I am starting to question whether the case being so personal for Carter is good or bad for the investigation.

I don't care how he presents, people are different; the question is, were there any mistakes made during the investigation, and what is the net result?

 

[mtnlites]

Yep I remember MP saying it, but wondered if it was said by anyone in LE at all? I know there was a lot of anecdotal stuff out there that night (13th).

The 'around town' part makes me think it's possible that it was, but it could just be the way he said it meaning the phone was still powered for a while. I'd love to know for sure, it would add a crazy wrinkle to the case...

The phone was found with the girls at the crime scene:

ISP: More audio recovered from slain Delphi teen's phone

Sgt. Holeman tells us investigators recovered more audio from Libby’s phone, which was found with the girls at the crime scene.

And it was Mike Patty who stated it, not LE:

Community continues to search for missing teens in Carroll County

"Missing, abducted, we don't know for sure,” said Patty.” The cellphone has been pinging around town – and here there is a cellphone tower – but the ping was last noted around five to six hours ago. And they say the phone is now dead.”

The phone may have pinged "all over town", but that does not mean that the phone itself was all over town; just that the phone was pinging off different towers. And that's not uncommon.

 

[MDATCA]

Is there a known time that CE the witness who was on the south side of the bridge that afternoon? I seem to remember seeing 247 or 347 but not from where or who I read it from.

 

[tresir2012]

Yep I remember MP saying it, but wondered if it was said by anyone in LE at all? I know there was a lot of anecdotal stuff out there that night (13th).

The 'around town' part makes me think it's possible that it was, but it could just be the way he said it meaning the phone was still powered for a while. I'd love to know for sure, it would add a crazy wrinkle to the case...

I'm sure the specifics will be kept close to the vest by LE.

 

[IQuestion]

I do not want to keeping posting the same video but this is a Major Media Link to the May 23 Carter video from the ‘Morning Express’ hosted by Robin Meade on the HLN webpage:

Robin Meade Speaking to Carter on HLN Thursday May 23 Morning Express:
Are you going to CrimeCon in New Orleans? HLN's SusanHendricks will be there moderating a panel on the Delphi Murders, Saturday June 8th: She's scheduled to be joined on stage with some people very close to the case.
Link to Video
www.facebook.com/HLN/posts/185392105711412/

I apologize if this is a duplicate.

No apologies MizStery required....this is the first video of this HLN snippet. It is not what DCarter said that interested me....it was THE LAST 6 seconds spoken BY THE INTERVIEWER: "The families of those girls have not spoken publicly since that last sketch has been released."
Any thoughts???? Heretofore the families have been open, accessible and done many interviews to keep the case in the news. What's going on? Thoughts??
www.facebook.com/HLN/posts/185392105711412/

 

[HockeyMom330]

Murdered Indiana Girls’ Families Describe Search Efforts The Day Their Teens Disappeared

Per Dr. Phil interview:
1:30 drop-off
2:07 pictures posted
2:30 approximate time of BG video
3:11 DG called Libby
3:14 DG started walking the trails
3:30 DG could not find, other family called
4:00 MP was called
5:15 Police were called by MP
6:00 Search was on
- per post #1194
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #76

(Snipped by me for brevity & BBM)

Based on the 2:07pm SnapChat photo it would appear that the girls were about 1/3rd of the way across the bridge. Locals have said (IIRC) that you could cross the bridge in 5-10 minutes. Assuming their goal was to cross the bridge fully and they were not dawdling, Libby and Abby could have been off the bridge at the SE end by 2:15pm. But they recorded BG on the bridge walking SE towards them from an estimated 60-70 ft away at 2:30pm. Maybe the girls explored at the SE end for a while before planning to re-cross the bridge to get back to their pick up spot on time. I'm not sure it really even matters, but just curious about the girls movements that day. Wondering if it was every reported in an interview with the family or LE if they had a planned route?

 

[dub]

HI Hatfield bbm-above...just about every college campus requires students get photo ID's when they register. (Campus security is a big issue at colleges, now.)

RSBM

I've attended three different universities (undergrad plus grad school twice, including currently) and I've only had to get a photo ID at one out of three.

Undergrad I had a student ID but no picture, they didn't require photos unless you lived on campus (that was in the early 2000s though so probably a function of the times).

First time in grad school I did have to get one.

At my current school I don't have a student ID at all haha it's completely optional at least for grad students (not sure about undergrad).

 

[TL4S]

I didn’t follow that one other than I saw when it happened and saw that they recovered her. Of course I read up on the recovery and motive. Very strange case.

Honestly, the Delphi case is the only case I’ve actually followed outside of ones in my area. I don’t live in a small town so there has definitely been no shortage of cases over the years. When I think about SM and this case I base some of my thoughts on having a kid the same age as the girls, being around young adults, and seeing how the SM angle developed in cases in my area. Just not able to let it go. The next PC or interview could change that though.

There's just so little that hints at this being SM related, IMO. All we know in reality is that BG was behind them near the end of the bridge, then at some point said, "down the hill," and an indeterminate number of minutes later, killed them.

The fact that two teenage girls were using a SM feature prior to their murders does not automatically mean they were being followed online by BG. We don't know that they weren't, either, of course.

And this is probably far reaching, but if BG had seen their SC photo or something, than he would have known Libby was taking pictures on the trail. I'd then be more apt to expect him to take and destroy her phone.