Found Deceased UK - Leah Croucher, 19, Emerson Valley, Milton Keynes, 14 Feb 2019 #2

[Scorpiette]

Yes dormant is the term that was used. So was there any last pings that LE have traced is what I am wondering? Especially if she was on the phone when witnesses saw her (assuming that was her if nobody else had come forward). Wouldn't TVP be able to determine who she was on the phone to at that time?

Apparently when a phone is switched 'off' it sends a 'goodbye' ping to nearest mast. So was the phone actually switched off, as opposed to 'dormant'? I'm finding the information given to the public very confusing...

 

[tresir2012]

Apparently when a phone is switched 'off' it sends a 'goodbye' ping to nearest mast. So was the phone actually switched off, as opposed to 'dormant'? I'm finding the information given to the public very confusing...

I think you are right. There is no dormant status AFAIK.
If she was using it, as stated by possible witnesses, it would be pinging. I think TVP either are keeping that info back or they haven't got the phone info back yet or they haven't even requested it yet. Family and friends need to question TVP about this. MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

Have TVP issued any warnings for people to be on their guard on the paths? MK is well known for these paths across the city so am just wondering if people are staying off them now because of this at all.

 

[BrianJohnson]

Everything points towards the fact she had a second phone, one used purely for communicating with someone close to her, if that crying girl was Leah then she has a second phone

 

[tresir2012]

Everything points towards the fact she had a second phone, one used purely for communicating with someone close to her, if that crying girl was Leah then she has a second phone

I think it's more likely something has happened to her than she has a second phone that no-one knows about. There is seemingly nothing to suggest deceptive behaviour in her past up to now but MOO.

 

[Plod]

I think it's more likely something has happened to her than she has a second phone that no-one knows about. There is seemingly nothing to suggest deceptive behaviour in her past up to now but MOO.

Well if it was her spotted later around the lake area, then she must have a second phone. We don’t really know what was going on in the weeks or months before her disappearance but there is nothing we know of to indicate that she was abducted by a complete stranger - hence I agree with Brian it is very possible that there was a second phone and she knew her abductor or gone with someone she knew, or had some arrangement to meet.

 

[wary]

Well if it was her spotted later around the lake area, then she must have a second phone. We don’t really know what was going on in the weeks or months before her disappearance but there is nothing we know of to indicate that she was abducted by a complete stranger - hence I agree with Brian it is very possible that there was a second phone and she knew her abductor or gone with someone she knew, or had some arrangement to meet.

But the ‘witness’ seeing her by the lake is the only ‘evidence’ of a second phone, I think? And eyewitness evidence is notoriously unreliable.

If the girl crying by the lake was not her—there’s a lot of plausible explanations for why she hasn’t come forward. She could not want to get involved. She could be completely unaware that there’s anything to come forward about. (Or, by the time she heard about it, have completely lost track of what day she was by the lake.)

All IMO, of course.

 

[Plod]

But the ‘witness’ seeing her by the lake is the only ‘evidence’ of a second phone, I think? And eyewitness evidence is notoriously unreliable.

If the girl crying by the lake was not her—there’s a lot of plausible explanations for why she hasn’t come forward. She could not want to get involved. She could be completely unaware that there’s anything to come forward about. (Or, by the time she heard about it, have completely lost track of what day she was by the lake.)

Yes and we’re would Leah have been in the time between cctv sighting and crying girl lake sighting

 

[Miss_French]

Yes dormant is the term that was used. So was there any last pings that LE have traced is what I am wondering? Especially if she was on the phone when witnesses saw her (assuming that was her if nobody else had come forward). Wouldn't TVP be able to determine who she was on the phone to at that time?

LE can only request mobile providers to give phone records for victims, witnesses and suspects, so they have to know the owners of the phone to get that info. Phone records for Leah would have shown when the phone was last used and it wasn't reported for the time the witnesses saw. A phone will ping off masts, but depending on the type of mast, the phone can be within a radius of several miles of it. There may not be sufficient masts to triangulate and give and exact position, or a short-range mast that would show Leah within, say, a mile radius of it.

 

[Miss_French]

Apparently when a phone is switched 'off' it sends a 'goodbye' ping to nearest mast. So was the phone actually switched off, as opposed to 'dormant'? I'm finding the information given to the public very confusing...

It says 'remaining dormant' so they could mean it was turned off and it's not been turned back on. Normal phone calls and texts would be traceable, as would posting on certain sites, but someone might want to check certain websites, eg for travel or news, or use apps where you can communicate with encryption.

 

[tresir2012]

LE can only request mobile providers to give phone records for victims, witnesses and suspects, so they have to know the owners of the phone to get that info. Phone records for Leah would have shown when the phone was last used and it wasn't reported for the time the witnesses saw. A phone will ping off masts, but depending on the type of mast, the phone can be within a radius of several miles of it. There may not be sufficient masts to triangulate and give and exact position, or a short-range mast that would show Leah within, say, a mile radius of it.

Have you got the link for it not being reported at the time the witness saw or is that opinion? Have LE stated that as I may have missed it. Just because they havent stated it doesn't mean they haven't got the info. Eg absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
AJMO

 

[tresir2012]

Yes and we’re would Leah have been in the time between cctv sighting and crying girl lake sighting

Those locations are not far apart so she may have taken a route that avoided them or arranged to meet someone or was abducted out of sight of CCTV IMO. You think she has left voluntarily then?

 

[tresir2012]

Is there CCTV video of the witnesses and the girl crying by the lake? If not then that's why there's no CCTV of Leah in that area either. If there is CCTV, why don't TVP show it and ask the girl to come forward if they have it.
MOO.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Is there CCTV video of the witnesses and the girl crying by the lake? If not then that's why there's no CCTV of Leah in that area either. If there is CCTV, why don't TVP show it and ask the girl to come forward if they have it.
MOO.

There's no cctv sightings reported from the lake. Not many houses in MK have cctv and there are few businesses near the lake, easily avoided. No warnings from TVP to be on guard etc.

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

Do people really bother with second phones these days? Isn’t it just too much hassle?

 

[Plod]

There's no cctv sightings reported from the lake. Not many houses in MK have cctv and there are few businesses near the lake, easily avoided. No warnings from TVP to be on guard etc.

I don’t think she went off alone. I think she went with someone she knew. Hence no warnings to be on guard of abductors.

 

[Miss_French]

Have you got the link for it not being reported at the time the witness saw or is that opinion? Have LE stated that as I may have missed it. Just because they havent stated it doesn't mean they haven't got the info. Eg absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
AJMO

There isn't a link because it wasn't reported that Leah's phone was being used at that time the girl on the phone was seen by witnesses....

 

[Plod]

There isn't a link because it wasn't reported that Leah's phone was being used at that time the girl on the phone was seen by witnesses....

St the very beginning it was reported the phone was turned off or stopped working at 830, but not sure where that was reported. It was discussed in the first thread, it may be in there.

 

[tresir2012]

There isn't a link because it wasn't reported that Leah's phone was being used at that time the girl on the phone was seen by witnesses....

St the very beginning it was reported the phone was turned off or stopped working at 830, but not sure where that was reported. It was discussed in the first thread, it may be in there.

I'll do a search to see if I can find it.

ETA have searched both threads for "phone stopped working" but could not find anything. If anyone comes across it please repost.

 

[cherrytree9]

St the very beginning it was reported the phone was turned off or stopped working at 830, but not sure where that was reported. It was discussed in the first thread, it may be in there.

I think the first source for this was the BBC radio interview, which has since been deleted from their website. I did a summary of all the info from the radio interview in the first thread if that counts as a "source".