GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #12

[dancinunderthemoon]

I think if we could narrow down the time the perp/s arrived, that might help, very very early or if dark, I dont think they would answer unless they knew them.......since their stomachs were empty and assuming they had an early supper on Fri, we'll say 5 pm, I dont know their habits completely in this regard but most their age eat about this time .......8 hours to digest food and before breakfast the next morning sounds about right........8 hours from 6 pm after partaking would be 2 am, before coffee and toast or whatever at 7 am.......I wouldnt open the door to someone I didnt know at this hour or before sunrise.......

their sons said they were religious about the alarm so that tells me they were religiously cautious...............just some thoughts.........

I would love to know more about the couples past. I recently listened to the True Crime Garage episode.

From what I learnt they had many fast food franchises over the years.
Had they ripped off someone many years ago?
Reported someone for fraud or given evidence years ago against someone.

Being so wealthy and owning many businesses over the years, surely they would have pissed off some people.[/QUOTEi w

One point I'd like to address. One conclusion that has been made (I believe even by SS) is that the Dermonds probably knew their killer or killers. Since there was apparently no forced entry, everyone assumes the Dermonds answered the door (because they knew who was behind that door.) I believe that they very well just answered the door. Many people live in very safe neighborhoods and the elderly, esp. are trusting people (I have opened the door to complete strangers in the past but no more.) Home invasions happen fast. I think they also had other points of entry i.e. porch door off the kitchen, etc. where someone could have easily just walked in. What if one of the D's was accosted while coming out to fetch the paper or mail or just to sit outside with a cup of coffee? I am not convinced they knew their killers, at all. JMO

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Mark died on his birthday buying drugs in Atlanta

SS suggested his parents probably gave him money for his bday that he spent on the drugs.........or intended to but was killed

Mark Dermond lived with his parents in Sandy Springs sometimes, I found his address online to be the same as his parents

Im not sure we know much more other than the Dermonds' didn't even go to the murder trial

Theories:
The True Crime Garage episode host, Nic, laid out his theory that the D’s were killed by two or more locals, the type of men who have guns and knives, likely blue collar jobs, and feel entitled and perhaps even wronged by “rich people.” They likely planned this in order to get something they perceived that the D’s had (and they might have gotten it, we don’t know).

A pet theory of mine, that I like to entertain even though I think it’s extremely unlikely, is this: Mark D had spent 5 years in Sing Sing and also did a number of stretches in prisons in GA. There he must have met some sketchy types. His parents had written him off after years of him stealing from them and forging checks and flunking rehab - SS indicated this. Isn’t it possible that while in prison, Mark had a bestie that he vented to about his parents? Maybe saying they were awful/betrayed him/were rich/he hated them, and this Bestie exacted revenge on Mark’s behalf after Bestie got out? Weirder things have happened. And if it was a GA prison mate, he could very well know Lake Oconee - many in Atlanta do. Anyway, I know it’s far out there, and this isn’t the movies, but as I said, weirder things have happened!

 

[wildebeest]

I think if we could narrow down the time the perp/s arrived, that might help, very very early or if dark, I dont think they would answer unless they knew them.......since their stomachs were empty and assuming they had an early supper on Fri, we'll say 5 pm, I dont know their habits completely in this regard but most their age eat about this time .......8 hours to digest food and before breakfast the next morning sounds about right........8 hours from 6 pm after partaking would be 2 am, before coffee and toast or whatever at 7 am.......I wouldnt open the door to someone I didnt know at this hour or before sunrise.......

their sons said they were religious about the alarm so that tells me they were religiously cautious...............just some thoughts.........

After reading your thoughts, dancin, something occurred to me. I think the perps probably arrived by boat under the cover of darkness, and waited until dawn to either knock on the door, or enter through an unlocked door. Generally speaking, I don’t think people have their guards up in the early daylight hours. We just don’t worry about the bogeyman at the beginning of a new day. There was a recent break in of an upscale home in my area, at 7:30 in the morning. A mother and daughter were going about their routines, and preparing to leave for the day. Fortunately, they weren’t hurt, and the perps were caught.

IMHO

 

[Deleted member 162919]

These are expensive homes and I would think most would be wary of alarms or video cameras but the alarm which they were apparently religious about setting wasn't set.
So how did they get in? Some say an unlocked door but I think that would be a reach since they always set their alarm tells me they made sure all doors were locked too. So who would they open a door for? Someone wearing a work uniform, Law Enforcement, neighbor, clergy ( yup I said it again). my thought is that the killers knew the alarm was off and they knew there weren't any video cameras. If they knew or thought there was a camera they would have checked

I don't believe this was extortion gone bad because it would be rare that a person tries to extort someone and when the person refuses they kill, also the coincidences of the alarm being off, the guard shack camera not working, lack of any cameras in a million dollar house, and an unlocked door which someone just happened to guess correctly that on this night a certain door would be unlocked

Things i'd like to know

1 who was the last known person to be in the house
2 who was the man on the lawn
3 who were the last few people to speak to the Dermonds on the phone

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I beleive they came at dark by boat too Wilde.........no one saw a thing.......by car, they'd have to pass by so many people, homes and cars and run the risk of a car being spotted in the driveway......run the risk, not that people frequented but someone may have seen it, neighbors lawn guys, mailman, a friend from the derby party, whatever..................by boat, so dark, my experience of 20 years on sinclair, you dont pay attention to fisherman in boats with trolling motors, you dont alway see them or hear them in the daylight, much less by nightfall and middle of the night

I get ya about the boogey man early on, but I do, I never open my door NOW until I check outside before opening my door, they felt hidden from harm on the cove and cul de sac maybe

SO maybe they didnt think anything would occur, not expecting it anyway, especially in the screened porch, like the gate at the entrance, it's a false sense of security..........

but someone went to the greatest links to avoid detection........I dont think a psycho killer or a robber would be so concerned, nor a mob hit, they'd not dragged her off or beheaded him

Thanks Wilde, good points

After reading your thoughts, dancin, something occurred to me. I think the perps probably arrived by boat under the cover of darkness, and waited until dawn to either knock on the door, or enter through an unlocked door. Generally speaking, I don’t think people have their guards up in the early daylight hours. We just don’t worry about the bogeyman at the beginning of a new day. There was a recent break in of an upscale home in my area, at 7:30 in the morning. A mother and daughter were going about their routines, and preparing to leave for the day. Fortunately, they weren’t hurt, and the perps were caught.

IMHO

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

oh oh.........you're right Hockey, bolded below.........since they went to great lengths to not be discovered, that would have been a major mistake if they'd been videoed

These are expensive homes and I would think most would be wary of alarms or video cameras but the alarm which they were apparently religious about setting wasn't set.
So how did they get in? Some say an unlocked door but I think that would be a reach since they always set their alarm tells me they made sure all doors were locked too. So who would they open a door for? Someone wearing a work uniform, Law Enforcement, neighbor, clergy ( yup I said it again). my thought is that the killers knew the alarm was off and they knew there weren't any video cameras. If they knew or thought there was a camera they would have checked

I don't believe this was extortion gone bad because it would be rare that a person tries to extort someone and when the person refuses they kill, also the coincidences of the alarm being off, the guard shack camera not working, lack of any cameras in a million dollar house, and an unlocked door which someone just happened to guess correctly that on this night a certain door would be unlocked

Things i'd like to know

1 who was the last known person to be in the house LESLIE? and kids?
2 who was the man on the lawn....SS NEVER TOLD
3 who were the last few people to speak to the Dermonds on the phone..........

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I’ve spent some time over the last few weeks thinking some on this case and I’m starting to wonder whether the Dermonds were victims of mistaken identity. The reason I wonder that is that nothing makes sense. Nothing seems to connect. Just random pieces that don’t mesh.
Nothing that happened beforehand that might have triggered this. No financial entanglements. Mr D is brutally decapitated, Mrs D is brutally beaten. No sense as to why he remained in the garage and she was spirited off in a boat and put in the lake. Nothing the police have fits anything about the Dermonds.
What if these killers went to the wrong house? The pieces don’t fit for the Dermonds but maybe they would have fit perfectly if the correct target had been attacked? I could see someone arriving by boat in the middle of the night might get confused and end up in the wrong cove. I think maybe LE needs to check out some of the Dermonds neighbors and others in that community with the idea that someone else may have been the intended victim.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I’ve spent some time over the last few weeks thinking some on this case and I’m starting to wonder whether the Dermonds were victims of mistaken identity. The reason I wonder that is that nothing makes sense. Nothing seems to connect. Just random pieces that don’t mesh.
Nothing that happened beforehand that might have triggered this. No financial entanglements. Mr D is brutally decapitated, Mrs D is brutally beaten. No sense as to why he remained in the garage and she was spirited off in a boat and put in the lake. Nothing the police have fits anything about the Dermonds.
What if these killers went to the wrong house? The pieces don’t fit for the Dermonds but maybe they would have fit perfectly if the correct target had been attacked? I could see someone arriving by boat in the middle of the night might get confused and end up in the wrong cove. I think maybe LE needs to check out some of the Dermonds neighbors and others in that community with the idea that someone else may have been the intended victim.

There was another Russell derminds, Olympic something or other, might have been dead before RD,

On the other hand, I always thought rd looked like SS a tad, lol..... Crossed my mind too, I can see the group of York going for him but surely they aren't that dumb to not be able find SS, IDK


We can make heads or tails of the why it was as it was Discovered but whether cirrect or not, we may never know

And now I'm singing that song starry!! Lol, stuck in my head

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Keep in mind SS said he has 2 people he suspects of being involved someway in the killings. This leads me to believe he knows the who and the why of this case but isn't saying for some reason. For SS to believe these 2 suspects are someway involved tells me they were part of the puzzle and for SS to believe that he must have good reason. Both of them also know they are suspects and also have refused to be polygraphed and refused questioning. I keep going back to when KD said his mother wanted her ashes spread over lake Oconee and think he gave her her wish in a way.

 

[jggordo]

I believe that SS knows exactly who was involved. Knowing that and proving it beyond a reasonable doubt is two different things. If the suspects were very close to the Dermonds, it would be very plausible that their DNA would be naturally all over the house. IIRC correctly the food franchises were sold to family members. I am sure that there must be or have been notes payable to the Dermonds for carrying the notes.

JMO

 

[wildebeest]

I’ve spent some time over the last few weeks thinking some on this case and I’m starting to wonder whether the Dermonds were victims of mistaken identity. The reason I wonder that is that nothing makes sense. Nothing seems to connect. Just random pieces that don’t mesh.
Nothing that happened beforehand that might have triggered this. No financial entanglements. Mr D is brutally decapitated, Mrs D is brutally beaten. No sense as to why he remained in the garage and she was spirited off in a boat and put in the lake. Nothing the police have fits anything about the Dermonds.
What if these killers went to the wrong house? The pieces don’t fit for the Dermonds but maybe they would have fit perfectly if the correct target had been attacked? I could see someone arriving by boat in the middle of the night might get confused and end up in the wrong cove. I think maybe LE needs to check out some of the Dermonds neighbors and others in that community with the idea that someone else may have been the intended victim.

Good thoughts, Starry. It has happened many times before, remember the horrific Sharon Tate murders by the Manson gang? The Mansons went to Terry Melcher’s (Doris Day’s son) house to settle a score. Unbeknownst to them was the fact Melcher no longer lived there, but had rented it out to Sharon Tate. It didn’t seem to matter to Manson, as they proceeded to slaughter everyone there. So, yes, this should be carefully considered.

IMHO

 

[wildebeest]

I believe that SS knows exactly who was involved. Knowing that and proving it beyond a reasonable doubt is two different things. If the suspects were very close to the Dermonds, it would be very plausible that their DNA would be naturally all over the house. IIRC correctly the food franchises were sold to family members. I am sure that there must be or have been notes payable to the Dermonds for carrying the notes.

JMO

Interesting! Do you have a link for that? If true, that would be a motive...

 

[jggordo]

The original article was published by the Eatonton Messenger. This article refers to it:

"The sons had sold 20 Wendy`s restaurants back in 2009; I wonder if this huge sale was completely spotless (that word crops up once again)? Moreover, what bearing does this sale have on the bad things that ultimately happened to their parents? How did the parents` proceedings go? That is, how and when did they sell their money-making franchise chain? Better yet, we`ll need to know, did someone get burned along the Yellow Brick Road that leads to Living the American Dream?"

thesop.org/story/20140509/who-would-do-harm-to-successful-retirees-russell-and-shirley-dermond.html

 

[Deleted member 162919]

the last podcast by levi he talks about what I mentioned

 

[wildebeest]

The original article was published by the Eatonton Messenger. This article refers to it:

"The sons had sold 20 Wendy`s restaurants back in 2009; I wonder if this huge sale was completely spotless (that word crops up once again)? Moreover, what bearing does this sale have on the bad things that ultimately happened to their parents? How did the parents` proceedings go? That is, how and when did they sell their money-making franchise chain? Better yet, we`ll need to know, did someone get burned along the Yellow Brick Road that leads to Living the American Dream?"

thesop.org/story/20140509/who-would-do-harm-to-successful-retirees-russell-and-shirley-dermond.html

Thank you! This does seem like an interesting path to follow. I’ve always thought the motive revolved around $$$.

 

[TJtennispro]

I’ll drop a nugget. The Dermond’s didn’t allow house guests outside of family. I’ve not heard of anyone that ever visited that house, no friends, no clergy, just family.

One occasion two neighbors knocked on the front door and heard multiple people in the house. Shirley came to the door but didn’t invite the neighbors inside. Russ drove up and the neighbors left. This event was late April of 2014.

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Another thought. I've known of a few parents who sold or gave the family business to their kids but they stayed on as consultants and were paid X amount each year. Wonder if the Dermonds had this type of deal

 

[deugirtni]

Another thought. I've known of a few parents who sold or gave the family business to their kids but they stayed on as consultants and were paid X amount each year. Wonder if the Dermonds had this type of deal

It seems only the 2 sons were involved in the fast-food franchises, and not the one daughter, so it would be important to know exactly how that/those franchise deals worked, and perhaps for SS to have delved deep into the D's finances for much longer than 8 years.

To end up with only the family home and a million and a half dollars in your estate, after having owned some 19 (was it 19?) popular franchises, with no seemingly extravagant vacations, vehicles, hobbies, vices, or other properties, seems like something (like a great big chunk) is missing, to me at least. Would it have taken all of the proceeds of selling 19 franchises to initially purchase their family home and retire? Would the sons at that time have been able to purchase 19 of them outright? If not sold to the sons at full value, then how was the daughter compensated to equalize that 'gift' amongst all their children - should she have perhaps received that 'equalization' after their deaths - but yet it was said the proceeds of the estate were split equally amongst the 3 kids when they died, and another time SS stated the one grandchild had received a small amount too. Franchises were expensive to buy even back when the RD sold his 19 locations!

In the 1990s, they moved to Georgia, where Mr. Dermond acquired 19 Atlanta-area Hardee's franchises. Their two sons, Keith and Bradley, worked with their dad.
....
The Dermonds were now officially retired. Their sons took over the the restaurants.
....
Their parents' wills divided their estate equally between the three.

The Murders of Elderly Georgia Couple Russell and Shirley Dermond: A Beheading and No Leads
-----
Though Sheriff Howard Sills says they had retired, they earned a living in the fast food business. Records show the Dermonds owned Wendy's and Hardees franchises as recently as the late 1990's.

Two of their sons, Bradley and Keith, followed in their parents footsteps. They own Florida-based Ramsey Development, which operates fast-food restaurants. According to the Florida Secretary of State's Office, the firm employs 700 people and generates more than $14 million in revenue a year.

Previously, the brothers owned and managed Dermond Food Services, a family business that legal documents show dissolved voluntarily in 2001 with all fees paid and no signs of outstanding debt.

Bradley Dermond is also a real-estate agent at Sotheby's International Realty, according to his profile on sothebysrealty.com.

Another son, Mark, was fatally shot at age 47 in August 2000 as he was buying drugs near the Atlanta University Center. The man convicted of the murder, Troy Major, is serving a life sentence at the maximum-security Georgia State Prison in Tattnall County, according to the Department of Corrections database.

As for Russell and Shirley Dermond, a search of online tax records doesn't show any other property holdings.

Dermond family established in restaurant business
-----
A couple of previous posts to same effect:

GA - GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #11

GA - GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #11

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Well statement analysis goes a long way, like I've been saying for at least a year now, just read KD statements and watch BD interview and, I'm sure it's money,it don't have to be billions to get someone killed

I have no clue how but I hope SS is having someone look deep into the forensics of the accounts from the past and family


A lot of the podcast brought up all of our points

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

It seems only the 2 sons were involved in the fast-food franchises, and not the one daughter, so it would be important to know exactly how that/those franchise deals worked, and perhaps for SS to have delved deep into the D's finances for much longer than 8 years.

To end up with only the family home and a million and a half dollars in your estate, after having owned some 19 (was it 19?) popular franchises, with no seemingly extravagant vacations, vehicles, hobbies, vices, or other properties, seems like something (like a great big chunk) is missing, to me at least. Would it have taken all of the proceeds of selling 19 franchises to initially purchase their family home and retire? Would the sons at that time have been able to purchase 19 of them outright? If not sold to the sons at full value, then how was the daughter compensated to equalize that 'gift' amongst all their children - should she have perhaps received that 'equalization' after their deaths - but yet it was said the proceeds of the estate were split equally amongst the 3 kids when they died, and another time SS stated the one grandchild had received a small amount too. Franchises were expensive to buy even back when the RD sold his 19 locations!

In the 1990s, they moved to Georgia, where Mr. Dermond acquired 19 Atlanta-area Hardee's franchises. Their two sons, Keith and Bradley, worked with their dad.
....
The Dermonds were now officially retired. Their sons took over the the restaurants.
....
Their parents' wills divided their estate equally between the three.

The Murders of Elderly Georgia Couple Russell and Shirley Dermond: A Beheading and No Leads
-----
Though Sheriff Howard Sills says they had retired, they earned a living in the fast food business. Records show the Dermonds owned Wendy's and Hardees franchises as recently as the late 1990's.

Two of their sons, Bradley and Keith, followed in their parents footsteps. They own Florida-based Ramsey Development, which operates fast-food restaurants. According to the Florida Secretary of State's Office, the firm employs 700 people and generates more than $14 million in revenue a year.

Previously, the brothers owned and managed Dermond Food Services, a family business that legal documents show dissolved voluntarily in 2001 with all fees paid and no signs of outstanding debt.

Bradley Dermond is also a real-estate agent at Sotheby's International Realty, according to his profile on sothebysrealty.com.

Another son, Mark, was fatally shot at age 47 in August 2000 as he was buying drugs near the Atlanta University Center. The man convicted of the murder, Troy Major, is serving a life sentence at the maximum-security Georgia State Prison in Tattnall County, according to the Department of Corrections database.

As for Russell and Shirley Dermond, a search of online tax records doesn't show any other property holdings.

Dermond family established in restaurant business
-----
A couple of previous posts to same effect:

GA - GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #11

GA - GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #11

DG, OH MY GOSH, NOT THE DAUGHTER ? THE DIVORCE RIGHT AT THE TIME OF THE D'S DEATHS. . BOTH ARE DOCTORS, CREEPY THOUGHTS IN MY HEAD