Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #104

[Charlot123]

I have followed this case closely since the beginning and still cant believe this multiple murderer has not been caught yet. It sounds like they need him to walk into a Police Station and confess?

I thought so, too. Then I read about Ted Bundy and GRK’s cases, and especially, Chikatilo’s case. Even the recent JC case. In hindsight, it is easy to criticize the police, or say, “what were they even thinking?” But I don’t think we would have acted any better.
Most serial killers are of average intellect, however, when they become known, they already have committed a few crimes so they perfect their skills. They have the advantage of thinking about it day and night, of planning. And mainly, on the day of the disappearance in Delphi, and the next day, the police reaction was probably catastrophic one. I read about major catastrophes, war- and nuclear- related, and there, too, initially, lots and lots of mistakes were made. Later, people learned. My explanation- our brains are simply easily overwhelmed in cases of catastrophes, unless you are constantly trained to deal with them, but such killings constitute 1% of all crimes, so police is surely not trained for them, it is not daily occurrence.
And then the burnout. This is psychological, but a powerful factor. DC and his team have been on it for two years, and their own burnout might slow down things significantly. It is not criticism, lots and lots of books have been written about professional burnout. The fact that in free time he watches movies like “Shack” does not look positive to me, as it is locks his mind in tragic crime. I would send Delphi police to vacation, one by one, and forbid to think of the case for a week, this could probably help.
ETA. Most psychological profiles are not precise, as people making them don’t think like the killers do.

 

[Charlot123]

I will try to explain better:

Firstly, the police have not specified whether or not the crime occurred due to a sexual motive. This leaves two broad, general possible motive clusters:

- Sexual (cannot be ruled out)

- Other criminal (vengeance, fear the victims would disclosure something, a personal dispute with somebody close to the victim, dispute with the victim etc.)

And now the possible “gamer” aspect in regards to the "other criminal motive" possibility:

Perpetrator is inherently violent and in day to day reality is a second string, small town criminal or “bad news” type. In the alternative gaming universe, however, the perpetrator is a powerful and violent mafia don, narco lord, street gang leader etc.

The perpetrator’s gaming ultra-ego solves problems through overload violence. Thus he thinks his real world personage should use the same tactics to “solve” real world “problems”. The perpetrator then commits a horrible crime over trivial reasons.

I think, 99.999% of gamers are not serial killers, but among serial killers, a lot might be gamers. So just saying that a killer was gaming does not throw the suspicion on the group as a whole. The statistic is simply not reversible. But in this case, i think your idea is good.

 

[BlueShoe]

I wonder if they had a lead early on but that guy's alibi stuck or they uncovered some evidence that pointed away from their initial ideas. I'd also like to know what they were thinking in the beginning.

Just wondering along with you. Could it have been something as simple as the initial sketch appearing so young, and the voice recording (which LE would have, even if they only released it later) seeming so much older? That, combined with the blurry video image also appearing older (as the original age description of OBG indicated) could have led to discarding the initial sketch, if so, a foolish mistake. LE are human and do the best they can, but maybe it was not something as significant as an alibi, but just heading off in the wrong direction because of things they thought they heard of saw, age-wise. Just my opinion. MOO

 

[Krwiley60]

DBM

 

[MistyWaters]

I'm sure this has been answered a million times but, does anyone hunt within the immediate vicinity of Monon? Was daydreaming the other day about a scenario in which BG was hunting with a partner (who had no idea about the crime/wasn't involved at all) who gave him an alibi, and the LE's appeal was targeted towards their conscience. Which I'm sure is completely unlikely - but BG was certainly dressed the part! And I wonder is there anything hunting related in 'The Shack'?

I’ve wondered about hunting too. The Delphi trail system ends before the Monon High bridge, which we know was at one time a railway bridge. What of the abandoned railway bed that heads eastward toward the rural area? It would seem that parking off that little road that runs beneath the bridge provides access to the SE end of the bridge, but also for fishing on the river and maybe even rabbit hunting along the abandoned railway bed. Because I vaguely recall someone posting here early on that it wasn’t unusual to see cars parked along the side of that narrow road in the past but now it’s gated and posted as private, although I have no way of knowing if that’s true.

It seems rabbit hunting is legal on abandoned railway beds in other areas within Carroll County.

Carroll County man shot while rabbit hunting

JMO, access from the SE side, as to why nobody seen this guy is just as plausible as him boldly walking through the trail system to the bridge in disguise, now that we know Carter didn’t say the suspect was the driver of the car parked at the abandoned building.

 

[FinePrint]

Bumping this forward
18:03 mark

Yep, there it is and it was also in a MSM article.

 

[TL4S]

I will try to explain better:

Firstly, the police have not specified whether or not the crime occurred due to a sexual motive. This leaves two broad, general possible motive clusters:

- Sexual (cannot be ruled out)

- Other criminal (vengeance, fear the victims would disclosure something, a personal dispute with somebody close to the victim, dispute with the victim etc.)

And now the possible “gamer” aspect in regards to the "other criminal motive" possibility:

Perpetrator is inherently violent and in day to day reality is a second string, small town criminal or “bad news” type. In the alternative gaming universe, however, the perpetrator is a powerful and violent mafia don, narco lord, street gang leader etc.

The perpetrator’s gaming ultra-ego solves problems through overload violence. Thus he thinks his real world personage should use the same tactics to “solve” real world “problems”. The perpetrator then commits a horrible crime over trivial reasons.

The violence could have simply come from a sick mind, IMO. He didn't necessarily need gaming influence or vengeful intentions to act out in a power-driven manner. JMO.

 

[TL4S]

I’ve wondered about hunting too. The Delphi trail system ends before the Monon High bridge, which we know was at one time a railway bridge. What of the abandoned railway bed that heads eastward toward the rural area? It would seem that parking off that little road that runs beneath the bridge provides access to the SE end of the bridge, but also for fishing on the river and maybe even rabbit hunting along the abandoned railway bed. Because I vaguely recall someone posting here early on that it wasn’t unusual to see cars parked along the side of that narrow road in the past but now it’s gated and posted as private, although I have no way of knowing if that’s true.

It seems rabbit hunting is legal on abandoned railway beds in other areas within Carroll County.

Carroll County man shot while rabbit hunting

JMO, access from the SE side, as to why nobody seen this guy is just as plausible as him boldly walking through the trail system to the bridge in disguise, now that we know Carter didn’t say the suspect was the driver of the car parked at the abandoned building.

I thought about this, too. The main reason I see trapping over rabbit hunting is the size gun he'd likely carry concealed on the trail. Rabbit hunting, possibly a .22, but trapping, a handgun? JMO

 

[Cryptic]

The violence could have simply come from a sick mind, IMO. He didn't necessarily need gaming influence or vengeful intentions to act out in a power-driven manner. JMO.

I agree, such an individual would not need gaming hype per se to commit the crime. Rather, the gaming aspect is simply a possibility.

 

[Cryptic]

Rabbit hunting, possibly a .22, but trapping, a handgun? JMO

I believe that trappers also prefer .22s because they do not want to damage the pelts.

The .22 can either be a rifle (sometimes cut down on the barrel to make it easier to carry and the fact that long range accuracy is not a concern) or a .22 pistol. With either a rifle or pistol, I think the emphasis would be on something small.

 

[puppyraiser]

I’ve wondered about hunting too. The Delphi trail system ends before the Monon High bridge, which we know was at one time a railway bridge. What of the abandoned railway bed that heads eastward toward the rural area? It would seem that parking off that little road that runs beneath the bridge provides access to the SE end of the bridge, but also for fishing on the river and maybe even rabbit hunting along the abandoned railway bed. Because I vaguely recall someone posting here early on that it wasn’t unusual to see cars parked along the side of that narrow road in the past but now it’s gated and posted as private, although I have no way of knowing if that’s true.

It seems rabbit hunting is legal on abandoned railway beds in other areas within Carroll County.

Carroll County man shot while rabbit hunting

JMO, access from the SE side, as to why nobody seen this guy is just as plausible as him boldly walking through the trail system to the bridge in disguise, now that we know Carter didn’t say the suspect was the driver of the car parked at the abandoned building.

In one of the early videos (not sure which one) there was a tree stand shown. I believe it was on the same side of the creek that the girls were found. The person shooting the video was following a path.

 

[MistyWaters]

I thought about this, too. The main reason I see trapping over rabbit hunting is the size gun he'd likely carry concealed on the trail. Rabbit hunting, possibly a .22, but trapping, a handgun? JMO

Yes could be trapping too. Somebody who was in a diabolical killing frame of mind and noticed two girls, nobody else around.

It possible he didn’t come all the way from the other side of the bridge, might’ve came from the SE end while the girls where near that end of the bridge. So instead of turning to cross back with him following right behind, they waited on a platform as he passed but soon he abruptly turned around and began walking towards them. That’d be enough to raise Libby’s alarm IMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

In one of the early videos (not sure which one) there was a tree stand shown. I believe it was on the same side of the creek that the girls were found. The person shooting the video was following a path.

Yes I recall that too.

 

[raja]

Bumping this forward
18:03 mark

Ok after watching that again I ask myself knowing now that a car may have been seen at the CPS it seems most possible and easiest that the killer went straight through the cemetery and down the road to his car. All the other ways risk more of a chance of being seen by someone. I also think he may not have even had a car parked at the CPS. But it is the easiest way out of the park if the killer went through the cemetery car or no car. Someone saw him with a backpack walking down the road and not in the park. The YBG sketch is from this sighting. I don't think any of the witness that may have seen someone after the murders actually saw YBG. They saw OBG.

 

[TL4S]

I believe that trappers also prefer .22s because they do not want to damage the pelts.

The .22 can either be a rifle (sometimes cut down on the barrel to make it easier to carry and the fact that long range accuracy is not a concern) or a .22 pistol. With either a rifle or pistol, I think the emphasis would be on something small.

You said it a heck of a lot better than I did. Yes, I know from a lot of friends that they use pistols for trapping, but rifle for rabbit hunting. Not always, of course, but it has to do with carrying. IMO, if BG had a gun, I would think it was a handgun because we can't see him carrying a rifle. It's just a thought. Not sure about any of it.

 

[MistyWaters]

Ok after watching that again I ask myself knowing now that a car may have been seen at the CPS it seems most possible and easiest that the killer went straight through the cemetery and down the road to his car. All the other ways risk more of a chance of being seen by someone. I also think he may not have even had a car parked at the CPS. But it is the easiest way out of the park if the killer went through the cemetery car or no car. Someone saw him with a backpack walking down the road and not in the park. The YBG sketch is from this sighting. I don't think any of the witness that may have seen someone after the murders actually saw YBG. They saw OBG.

I don’t think we can jump to the conclusion the suspect was seen at the old CPS building. Carter’s ask for the driver of the car parked there between noon to 5pm, or anyone who knows who parked there to please contact the officers at the command post isn’t suggestive of anything specific at all. His voice tone and facial expression make it appear they are just reaching out to someone, perhaps someone who they already spoken with who they’ve lost contact with. As this request is not being repeated by him during his subsequent media appearances it seems as though it was satisfied.
@1:30

 

[Boxer]

MOO I have always thought he has a shortened rifle over his left shoulder. There is an independent little black thing that moves on that shoulder near his neck, the way it moves as he walks looks me like the tip of a barrel. Not that it matters really. The real question is "who?"
Police have stated they have enough evidence from scene to convict, once that evidence is tied to an individual.
Maybe back to social media, which fits a younger suspect.

 

[Charlot123]

You said it a heck of a lot better than I did. Yes, I know from a lot of friends that they use pistols for trapping, but rifle for rabbit hunting. Not always, of course, but it has to do with carrying. IMO, if BG had a gun, I would think it was a handgun because we can't
see him carrying a rifle. It's just a thought. Not sure about any of it.

And this is the question I'd like to get an answer about.

Balaclava won't let us anywhere as it is generic. Too many people wear them. Likewise, a scarf. Purdue shirt? Sorry, I don't see it. But I would like to know if anyone thinks there is a gun in his pocket and if so, which pocket, right or left? There are self-admitted hunters here, ex-military people, does anyone see a gun?

 

[CrimeDawg123]

MOO I have always thought he has a shortened rifle over his left shoulder. There is an independent little black thing that moves on that shoulder near his neck, the way it moves as he walks looks me like the tip of a barrel. Not that it matters really. The real question is "who?"
Police have stated they have enough evidence from scene to convict, once that evidence is tied to an individual.
Maybe back to social media, which fits a younger suspect.

You say he has a rifle on his back and that "not that it matters really"?

 

[Boxer]

You say he has a rifle on his back and that "not that it matters really"?

MOO I would say not overly relevant unless there is way to trace ownership. And its really just the hint of a suggestion that there might be a short rifle slung over his left shoulder. It is what I see it as.