Found Deceased UT-5 -Year-Old Elizabeth Shelley Found Deceased (UNCLE ARRESTED) #4

[Ebeccare]

Thanks. I didn’t consider Alex wanted kids or responsibilities.
I do think we’ll learn a lot more in the near future.

no, attention is attention. Stay strong, good luck.

I don't know that he wanted kids or responsibilities. I guess his behavior and demeanor remind me of the type of people who are angry when they don't get what they want, or are envious of those who have things but aren't willing to do any work to change themselves. I agree that we'll learn a lot more in the future. MOO

 

[Trudie]

I don't know that he wanted kids or responsibilities. I guess his behavior and demeanor remind me of the type of people who are angry when they don't get what they want, or are envious of those who have things but aren't willing to do any work to change themselves. I agree that we'll learn a lot more in the future. MOO

He does not seem the type that would want to settle down, work consistently & be a provider. His temper was probably a detriment to a long term relationship.
I think he’ll learn to control his anger cuz I don’t think where he’s going it will be accepted.
Bet he’s sobbing like a baby right now.
I’m glad DP is off the table, he’s young, I’d like him to live to 100, looking over his shoulder every moment he’s out of his cell, experiencing the same fear little Lizzy endured.

 

[otto]

The suspect wanted one child that night, and that is the child he murdered. He murdered a family member, perhaps hoping that it would stay under the radar.
Given the escaliating history, it seems possible that he would do it again.

There must be a reason he was so angry earlier in the evening when he vandalized his mother's home. Did he get fired? What set him off?

 

[wary]

I'm jumping ahead here so if the answer is further upthread I apologize.

Was it ever reported that HRD dogs (cadaver dogs) were used in the immediate neighborhood? I've seen reports that they were used in the search south of the area but I can't find anything about the streets around the home.

I don't know much about search dogs but I know they're trained to do specific "sniffing" jobs. So maybe apart from some exceptional dogs the ones trained in trailing may have missed Lizzy's body. And yes, rain and soggy, tall weeds probably hampered efforts too.

Police: DNA evidence suggests 5-year-old Lizzy Shelley was hurt

My thought was that since they knew he was on foot, a good tracking dog should have been able to follow his trail to where the cameras picked him up without her.

And then, backtrack all along that route, with cadaver dogs, and search everywhere, thoroughly, for her.

Obviously, it didn’t work.

 

[Seattle1]

'Anger, hatred and evil': Family of Elizabeth Shelley talks possible motive in her murder

“He told me one time, he asked me. ‘Grandpa, am I crazy?’ I looked at him and I said ‘Yeah, I think you are, we need to get you help.’”

But he said Alex would never get that help.

“We can get you counseling. We can get you medication. We can get you on track. He would have nothing to do with that, and he would run away," Bill said.

Regarding his granddaughter Jessica, Bill says she is a good mother and Lizzy was her whole world.

“She was just trying to help her brother," he said. "She is a kind little gal; she’s the sweetest thing you ever met.”

 

[Ebeccare]

He does not seem the type that would want to settle down, work consistently & be a provider. His temper was probably a detriment to a long term relationship.
I think he’ll learn to control his anger cuz I don’t think where he’s going it will be accepted.
Bet he’s sobbing like a baby right now.
I’m glad DP is off the table, he’s young, I’d like him to live to 100, looking over his shoulder every moment he’s out of his cell, experiencing the same fear little Lizzy endured.

I agree that he probably wanted nothing of the sort. I'm probably not explaining myself well tonight. What I mean is the type who feel like the world owes them a living. They resent anyone who has any type of success and ignore the work and effort it takes for those people to have that success.

Those types of people tend to be the ones who won't follow any rules unless they have those rules forced upon them, like AW will in prison. I don't think he would ever be safe to let out. It's going to be a long, miserable existence which is nothing short of what he deserves. I do feel bad for the child he was and the bad life it sounds like he had, but that's still no excuse for murder. MOO

 

[otto]

My thought was that since they knew he was on foot, a good tracking dog should have been able to follow his trail to where the cameras picked him up without her.

And then, backtrack all along that route, with cadaver dogs, and search everywhere, thoroughly, for her.

Obviously, it didn’t work.

Yes, cadaver dogs used in recent searches are beginning to look like false claims about dog abilities.

 

[Alexsea]

I totally agree with @otto.
He wasn’t there on purpose. This was a deranged mind in an unfortunate and impromptu spot that just went awry. Big time. I have all love for mama.

 

[pepper 34]

As for all the chances he had and blew away as a young adult...

It's my opinion that there is a time in life when it's absolutely necessary and essential for healthy mental development to receive chances; and that's when a child is very young. From infancy on... Given a chance to feel love, security, and feelings of acceptance and being encouraged to feel special and appreciated for him or herself for who they are. Children need the chance to feel like they are a valuable addition to and cherished member of a family who loves them very much.

All the chances in the world after they are older and in trouble and already have learned to hate who they are, are too late in coming. Way too late. There are emotional and development steps that must be experienced during childhood in order for a child to develop a sense of a positive self image, a sense of burgeoning responsibilities, empathy for other people and animals, self-assurance through accomplishments, the beginnings of early independence, a strong self esteem, etc. All the good stuff that makes a person feel happy about themselves.

There is no way to recapture the time when these steps must take place. Have we all seen the difficulties of children who grew up in orphanages and who are not held and hugged enough when they were infants? Later in life; they often pull away from physical touch and display a myriad of personality and emotional problems and abnormalities. It's too late to make up for what was missed, imo.

All the chances AW was given were "given" too late, imo. I excuse nothing he's done... in fact, killing his innocent little 5 year old niece makes me feel sick... she appeared to be having exactly the kind of childhood which could have taken her so far in life. Is there even one picture where she isn't beaming a smile like the brightest star in the sky? If there is; I haven't seen it. Imo, her mother and fiance are totally blameless. Anyone can look at photos of her happy little face and see that she was a very loved and cherished child, imo. A moment in time when a mother made a decision to try to help another family member is all it took. Nobody should ever be blamed for trying to be kind.
All jmo.

 

[otto]

'Anger, hatred and evil': Family of Elizabeth Shelley talks possible motive in her murder

“He told me one time, he asked me. ‘Grandpa, am I crazy?’ I looked at him and I said ‘Yeah, I think you are, we need to get you help.’”

But he said Alex would never get that help.

“We can get you counseling. We can get you medication. We can get you on track. He would have nothing to do with that, and he would run away," Bill said.

Regarding his granddaughter Jessica, Bill says she is a good mother and Lizzy was her whole world.

“She was just trying to help her brother," he said. "She is a kind little gal; she’s the sweetest thing you ever met.”

Nope.
I think it's more likely that he has FAS and the entire family always knew that he was messed up, but did not seek effective treatment because they preferred to keep the secret that a family member was not normal.

 

[kgreg2529]

Who was where ?
The uncle took the child from her bedroom.
He left her body down a dark path.

Prior to murdering the child, he was angry and vandalized his mother's house. Why was he so angry earlier in the day?

I didn’t see where it was mentioned he vandalized his moms house. But I’ve read a ton of articles. Maybe I missed that part.

 

[Trudie]

He told me one time, he asked me. ‘Grandpa, am I crazy?’ I looked at him and I said ‘Yeah, I think you are, we need to get you help.’”

Omg, I can’t imagine an adult telling a child he’s crazy.
Glad he spoke out, it confirms the family knew he was troubled. I expect many more acquaintances to talk any day now.

 

[Dontknow?]

Maybe grandpa is right, maybe he took his anger/revenge out on his half sister for revenge of the way he had to live his life. Same with almost step-brother. He didn't have a cell phone so he beat up his almost step-brother, he didn't have a mate and his sister and her boyfriend had each other, so he took his half-sister's daughter. He had anger towards them, maybe all of his family for what he didn't have even if he was the one that screwed up his adult life maybe his childhood with lot's of trouble too (probably, imo).

Was it said what drugs he was found with? I know there was a pipe and drugs. Could be meth but this guy had deep problems without that. jmo

(sorry about the font size, it's from copying news articles today, I guess)

 

[FleurQualia]

Omg, I can’t imagine an adult telling a child he’s crazy.
Glad he spoke out, it confirms the family knew he was troubled. I expect many more acquaintances to talk any day now.

(Sigh) I have seen a psychiatrist since age 11 for depression. When my mom would get mad at me, she would tell me that I need to go see my "crazy doctor".

Adults are often aholes to children for some reason. Easy targets, I guess?

 

[Seattle1]

There must be a reason he was so angry earlier in the evening when he vandalized his mother's home. Did he get fired? What set him off?

We know at least two things about AW prior to his allegedly killing Lizzy: he attended a function hours earlier where he dressed up in a shirt and tie.

Was he mingling, and rejected that evening -- setting him off in a rage?

Second -- a warrant had been issued for AW for failure to appear (FTA) about 3 weeks earlier. We know he was drinking and most likely using substances again for at least 3 weeks after being compliant for at least a year. (i.e., Probation required AW drug and alcohol free, and he didn't report for probation check knowing he'd fail screening).

I believe JW, DB, and infant are lucky that AW didn't slit all their throats that evening -- he was clearly capable of doing so.

MOO

 

[MsMarple]

Copy of the 911 call:

‘We woke up and the front door’s wide open’ – Listen to the 911 call placed after Elizabeth Shelley’s disappearance

BTW, listening to the 911 call is a great example of what we expect to hear when a child is missing. The caller (DB) is nervous, apprehensive but neither hysterical nor dead calm.

The first thing he says when asked what the emergency is - "My daughter is missing." Straight to the point. Then he goes on to say the circumstances: "We woke up and the front door is wide open and we can't find Lizzy."

He answers all the dispatcher's questions without adding unnecessary information - IOW, not building an alibi to "prove" why they don't know where she is. He uses Lizzy's name. It's all very straightforward and the tension level in DB's voice is about what you'd expect.

I've listened to dozens of 911 calls over the years and it's amazing how predictable they can be. More times than not the hysterical calls, the long, rambling too much information calls, the flat effect calls - these are the ones that are made by someone involved in the disappearance. It's quite a view into human nature.

Anyway, thanks for the link smucklecrumble!

 

[otto]

Twisted out of his mind.
Tossed out of the wedding, so he took it out on family?

 

[pepper 34]

Maybe grandpa is right, maybe he took his anger/revenge out on his half sister for revenge of the way he had to live his life. Same with almost step-brother. He didn't have a cell phone so he beat up his almost step-brother, he didn't have a mate and his sister and her boyfriend had each other, so he took his half-sister's daughter. He had anger towards them, maybe all of his family for what he didn't have even if he was the one that screwed up his adult life maybe his childhood with lot's of trouble too (probably, imo).

Was it said what drugs he was found with? I know there was a pipe and drugs. Could be meth but this guy had deep problems without that. jmo

(sorry about the font size, it's from copying news articles today, I guess)

From the arrest warrant:

"A search incident to arrest discovered a pipe consistent with drug use in his right coat pocket and in a left pocket a silver container with thick residue that had an odor that due to my training and experience was consistent with marijuana. Also located on his left side was an unopened can of beer. Dispatch confirmed a no alcohol clause as part of probation. Alexander was taken into custody for..."

http://kslnewsradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Whipple-PC.pdf

 

[borndem]

Yes but that doesn’t make him legally insane. That’s a different ballpark. He has to have not known what he was doing was wrong. And there’s no way he qualifies under that umbrella. He took steps to cover what he did an was elusive with LE until he got something in return for the info he gave. That is not the markings of an insane person.

Yep. And if he tries to act insane, I think he will fail. Certainly his defense team will find some professional to find what they what him or her to find, and the defense probably should have two such professionals to make it look more solid.
The prosecution will have their professional(s) as well, and that should make a sound impression on a jury, since the defense's prof's will have, IMO, a much more difficult time in showing more than just personality defects and rough treatment growing up. He may indeed have had a tuff life, but that's not why most truly insane people get that way from the trials I have seen and researched that have had to do with an insanity defense, however few and far between.
And probably one of the ones who knows him best is the mother of the sweet little human being that he abused and killed.
Nope, no way they'll pull that off, and a smart defense attorney will know that from the get-go. IMHO.

 

[YellowCat11]

No ability to cope, no ability to self soothe/regulate emotion, no apparent ability function or make decisions from own experience. Sounds like executive functioning network is completely irregular - caused by things from depression to TBI to reinforced negative behavior. Here is also the chicken egg question as many will turn to substances as outside coping mechanism or tool to numb/regulate/give false notion of self. Which in turn, makes deficits worse.