Found Deceased UT-5 -Year-Old Elizabeth Shelley Found Deceased (UNCLE ARRESTED) #4

[Knox]

“He came into the house inebriated, angry, mean and hateful, and he lashed out at the family and that’s what happened,” he said of Alex.
'Anger, hatred and evil': Family of Elizabeth Shelley talks possible motive in her murder

This is the first description of his demeanor that I've seen? It wasn't mentioned in the probable cause statement at least.

 

[Trudie]

Second -- a warrant had been issued for AW for failure to appear (FTA) about 3 weeks earlier. We know he was drinking and most likely using substances again for at least 3 weeks after being compliant for at least a year. (i.e., Probation required AW drug and alcohol free, and he didn't report for probation check knowing he'd fail screening).

I believe JW, DB, and infant are lucky that AW didn't slit all their throats that evening -- he was clearly capable of doing so.

Iirc he started missing his treatment program & counseling sessions in January & by April stopped checking in with his PO, then warrant was issued. In
January he told PO he was having problems, or something.
I have thought the same thing, miraculous he didn’t let himself back in the home & kill everyone. He had an opportunity, for sure.

 

[Knox]

No ability to cope, no ability to self soothe/regulate emotion, no apparent ability function or make decisions from own experience. Sounds like executive functioning network is completely irregular - caused by things from depression to TBI to reinforced negative behavior. Here is also the chicken egg question as many will turn to substances as outside coping mechanism or tool to numb/regulate/give false notion of self. Which in turn, makes deficits worse.

Your description is so much better than Grandpa William's "Yes I think you are crazy". Thank you Yellowcat11, please share more of your observations.

 

[Trudie]

This is the first description of his demeanor that I've seen? It wasn't mentioned in the probable cause statement at least.

The night of the murder he came in inebriated & angry & was allowed to stay?

 

[notallfloridiansarecrazy]

I am so confused!

I thought I was doing a pretty good job of keeping up with this horrific crime, but after reading a few posts this evening... I am not so sure.

Vandalism, fetal alcohol syndrome? I thought the story about a wedding was not validated. I didn't realize that JW was his "step" sister. Also, I thought they played video games and were having a pretty good time when he went to JW's, but now I'm reading that he came in inebriated and angry.

I guess I should just call it a night and reread this thread in the morning.

 

[borndem]

I think (not a mental health professional) that AW is absolutely damaged and has mental health issues. I also think he is not legally insane.

His abducting Lizzie from the home, his hiding of her bloodied clothes, his hiding her body, his lies about whereabouts to LE, his attempts (uggh) to lick the dried blood evidence from his hands while sitting in the interview room, are all IMO evidence of his consciousness of guilt both during and after the crime. ie. He knew what he did was wrong and therefore took pains to hide it and try to distance himself from it.

I think he is an angry young man. I think he may have been intensely jealous of Lizzie's childhood, his sister's little family, where from all reports there was love. I think little Lizzie represented to him all he had been denied as a child. She was loved, she was protected. Nobody ever did that for him. Why should she get that?

My heart breaks for Lizzie's mama.

bbm
Hmmmm, good point, tlcya, I hadn't thought of it the way you just expressed it.
Could very well be that that was the trigger. Maybe he had seen her that night being happy, healthy and well-fed, well cared-for and obviously loved and treasured by her mom, and then put to bed in her little room, safe and happy -- another thing he might not have had. It certainly wasn't fair that he didn't have that, but "fair" is a true crap-shoot for all of us. But not fair wasn't the fault of anyone in that house that night. Maybe a rage just built up in him and he took it out on Lizzie. Did it make him feel better -- did it make him happy? -- maybe for a few minutes.
And he's now tucked into his little bed in jail -- free place to stay, free clean clothes, meals, a warm shower, free medical care.
And Lizzie's mom may not even be asleep at this very moment. A good night's sleep for her will be hard in coming, for a long time.

 

[Trudie]

Maybe he had seen her that night being happy, healthy and well-fed, well cared-for and obviously loved and treasured by her mom, and then put to bed in her little room, safe and happy -- another thing he might not have had.

Wasn’t it stated Lizzy was sleeping when he arrived & he never had contact with her?

 

[Ebeccare]

Wasn’t it stated Lizzy was sleeping when he arrived & he never had contact with her?

It was. They had already put the kids to bed and Alex arrived later. It was in one of the documents.

 

[YellowCat11]

Your description is so much better than Grandpa William's "Yes I think you are crazy". Thank you Yellowcat11, please share more of your observations.

That was quite a quote . I commend Grandpa William’s honesty in addressing the problem but following up with a solution that was inclusive rather than exclusive is important next step in the conversation. Saying someone should be sent to professional outside of the family to be fixed rather than saying we will figure this out together can be isolating message.

This murderer was an extremely sick individual. I have no idea what could have prevented this horrific escalation and don’t want to try to suggest any “if only”s here. What I do observe in the history are clear signs of mood disruption and acting out followed by limited consequences or limited follow through of threatened consequence (again - this is just based on limited info reported). With a disregulated brain - this can be twisted to mean “I can and will try to get away with...” or “I can do whatever I want if I just rage” because it’s been reinforced from times or worked for him in the past. It’s all about him, his impulses, his inability to empathize in his moments of acting out, and his lack of regard for logical consequences.

 

[foleybrau]

Agree completely! I think he’s a selfish depraved psycho who saw an opportunity and took it. I just wish there would have been some sort of intervention before he escalated to this. That poor child died because of so many preventable failures MOO

Preventable failures. Its like the swiss cheese model used for risk management and safety. The biggest being:
- Poor upbringing (Whipple)
- Child being left exposed to clearly unhinged individual in own home
- Uncle not being in Jail already

 

[borndem]

I’m not trying to imply that his parents are to blame for him murdering an innocent young child. I’m merely stating that in 99% of cases like this the perpetrator will have had a difficult upbringing, child abuse/neglect, foster care etc and I also am not implying that all people brought up in bad situations go on to do heinous things, the vast majority don’t. But it can’t be denied that that there is a correlation between having a troubled background and growing up to become a troubled adult. I’m very sure lots of other factors came into play to turn AW into the monster he became. Who’s can say if he would have had it in him to do this if he’d grown up in a stable loving home who taught him right from wrong? None of us can but I’d put my money on his upbringing having a significant impact on the person he grew up to become MOO

bbm
Agree -- and also agree, because we've all seen great examples of personal victories of someone rising above a life like that and becoming a good citizen, parent, etc., etc.
Bu with this one, his upbringing and probable physical and mental abuse were more than this person could overcome -- no excuses, no "poor guy," etc.
But his history and personality were coupled with alcohol (not an excuse, by any means, but it can be a trigger) that night (and previous nights, I am sure, and who knows what else), and for him, and many others, it put him in an even more angry and cruel frame of mind, and the worst happened -- to the one who was least able to defend herself.

 

[pepper 34]

Wow! The way most of us understood it, his sister invited him over.

According to the probable cause statement, how you understood it is how LE understood it, too. There is no mention of AW having any kind of trouble before being invited to his sister's house or while visiting in the house.

Does the grandfather actually specify when that particular emotional explosion took place? Could he have been talking about earlier when AW was at his mother's house and got kicked out? If not, and the grandfather was talking about when he arrived at his sister's house, that information was not given to LE before the probable cause document was created, imo.
See below in Items #5 and #6.

https://gephardtdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/Whipple_PC.pdf

 

[Jo in Calif]

I am so confused!

I thought I was doing a pretty good job of keeping up with this horrific crime, but after reading a few posts this evening... I am not so sure.

Vandalism, fetal alcohol syndrome? I thought the story about a wedding was not validated. I didn't realize that JW was his "step" sister. Also, I thought they played video games and were having a pretty good time when he went to JW's, but now I'm reading that he came in inebriated and angry.

I guess I should just call it a night and reread this thread in the morning.

I don't think you need to reread, I think that some need to read what is going on in the case.

 

[borndem]

sun16 said: ↑
I’d at least like to hear his explanation of what happened. Although you probably can’t believe much of what he says. I’m assuming it’s a version of ... I was drunk or high or whatever and, I don’t know, I sort of blacked out, and when I came to she was dead, and I freaked.

Really? That’s an acceptable excuse? Good Lord!

No way an excuse, no way acceptable, but it's about all he's got, IMO.

 

[PiertotumLocomotor]

Apologies if this has already been pointed out, but did anyone else spot the pink kids’ bike on their front porch? I assume it was Lizzy’s and if so, it gave me the most haunting feeling.

I can’t imagine how JW is doing. My heart is completely broken for her... isn’t there an infant daughter? I know we are not supposed to sleuth, I only wanted to comment on how strong she would have to be to continue caring for her while dealing with this immeasurable grief.

God, bless this family and give them strength.

 

[lucylulu]

I am so confused!

I thought I was doing a pretty good job of keeping up with this horrific crime, but after reading a few posts this evening... I am not so sure.

Vandalism, fetal alcohol syndrome? I thought the story about a wedding was not validated. I didn't realize that JW was his "step" sister. Also, I thought they played video games and were having a pretty good time when he went to JW's, but now I'm reading that he came in inebriated and angry.

I guess I should just call it a night and reread this thread in the morning.

Your not the only one. I thought I was on the wrong thread.

 

[PiertotumLocomotor]

I am so confused!

I thought I was doing a pretty good job of keeping up with this horrific crime, but after reading a few posts this evening... I am not so sure.

Vandalism, fetal alcohol syndrome? I thought the story about a wedding was not validated. I didn't realize that JW was his "step" sister. Also, I thought they played video games and were having a pretty good time when he went to JW's, but now I'm reading that he came in inebriated and angry.

I guess I should just call it a night and reread this thread in the morning.

It’s not just you. It seems like there are some determined to believe that this could have been foreseen and prevented.

As I learned with the Watts case, sometimes there is just pure evil. We try to rationalize and understand, but there’s no understanding evilness.

*sigh* It just keeps happening though, doesn’t it?

 

[mickey2942]

It’s not just you. It seems like there are some determined to believe that this could have been foreseen and prevented.

As I learned with the Watts case, sometimes there is just pure evil. We try to rationalize and understand, but there’s no understanding evilness.

*sigh* It just keeps happening though, doesn’t it?

There really is no rational explanation or "big red blinking sign" that happens. Maybe Jessica didn't want her creep brother to spend the night, but didn't want to kick him out at 2am either. I can totally see that.

I did once know someone, who seemed "normal", he left work, went home, and killed his little neighbor girl, threw her body in the trash. I still think about him...he didn't seem like a psycho killer to me. It was completely random.

 

[Seattle1]

I am so confused!

I thought I was doing a pretty good job of keeping up with this horrific crime, but after reading a few posts this evening... I am not so sure.

Vandalism, fetal alcohol syndrome? I thought the story about a wedding was not validated. I didn't realize that JW was his "step" sister. Also, I thought they played video games and were having a pretty good time when he went to JW's, but now I'm reading that he came in inebriated and angry.

I guess I should just call it a night and reread this thread in the morning.

Actually, you are definitely spot on with what's been confirmed. Consider the variance as speculation by others not familiar with the facts as you are. MOO

 

[pepper 34]

I wonder if anyone knows the answer to my question about his parole. His jail sentence was pushed aside after serving some amount of time and he was let go on probation. But... isn't a prerequisite for being let out that he has a relative or friend or someone responsible who vouches that he'll have a place to live? That's my understanding but I'm not really sure. However, I can't see a court system letting him go with well wishing: "Go be homeless somewhere... oh, and good luck."

I think, since he was staying with his mother, she may have agreed that he must remain in residence at her home as part of his probation agreement (?) If he were my son and began drinking and knocking off on the counseling... all he'd have to do is throw one ashtray or punch one wall in my house and I wouldn't have thrown him out. I'd have called police immediately and had him arrested. I think there was too much tolerance shown and too many things ignored when it came to his behavior. Tough love, imo, would have worked a lot better than to turn a blind eye; wishing and hoping, for something to magically intervene and make it all go away and be better. If he had just been stopped as soon as he began to run his own show and probation be damned... last January... we probably never would have heard there was a missing little 5 year old girl in Utah named Lizzy.