Found Deceased UT-5 -Year-Old Elizabeth Shelley Found Deceased (UNCLE ARRESTED) #4

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PaulaDC said:
Problem is there are no programs in prison. Not all prisons are created equal. When they get out if they get a job in pre-release it's a job through the prison system at minimum wage. Then 90% of those earnings goes back to the state for room and board, court court fees, child support etc. When they get out they're still obligated to pay those exorbitant fees that are practically impossible to pay along with trying to get their lives in order. Saving to start all over from nothing is rough. They make failure the norm so it's just a viscious cycle. I do not feel sorry for them but our system is one giant failure.
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Agreed -- I saw a program on this type thing where 3 men, all under 25 years old, were followed -- what their crimes were -- all of them were serving 18 months or less -- for drugs, breaking & entering, and car theft.
One had a wife and child waiting for him -- when he got out they were there to meet him, and took him home.
One met his mother to take him home.
And the third had no one in that town that he could call on, and no family possibilities. He had the clothes he was wearing, $20.00, and he just walked outside the prison gates, bought a pack of cigarettes, and started walking down the street. He was the one who had stolen a beat-up old car. No one was there for him, and I thought -- Where will he sleep tonight? Even if he gets a job at minimum wage, where will he live, etc.? His first offense, not violent, and I truly felt sorry for him -- no family possibilities at all. He wasn't followed in the program past his walking out of prison, so I don't know how he ended up. Seemed like an okay guy. He had no training in prison other than working in the cafeteria, serving (not cooking) food and cleaning up. SMH. Failure had to be waiting around for him -- did he avoid it? No idea.
 
@otto -- I believe you are referencing an event that occurred several years ago 2015 when AW was a teen, and beat the walls and his step brother in-front of his step mom. MOO
notallfloridiansarecrazy said:
I am so confused!

I thought I was doing a pretty good job of keeping up with this horrific crime, but after reading a few posts this evening... I am not so sure.

Vandalism, fetal alcohol syndrome? I thought the story about a wedding was not validated. I didn't realize that JW was his "step" sister. Also, I thought they played video games and were having a pretty good time when he went to JW's, but now I'm reading that he came in inebriated and angry.

I guess I should just call it a night and reread this thread in the morning.
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I brought up FAS as a possible excuse for murdering his niece, and it now looks like the vandalism was from an earlier time. Apologies for my confusion.
 
PiertotumLocomotor said:
Apologies if this has already been pointed out, but did anyone else spot the pink kids’ bike on their front porch? I assume it was Lizzy’s and if so, it gave me the most haunting feeling.

I can’t imagine how JW is doing. My heart is completely broken for her... isn’t there an infant daughter? I know we are not supposed to sleuth, I only wanted to comment on how strong she would have to be to continue caring for her while dealing with this immeasurable grief.

God, bless this family and give them strength.
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Yes, I saw the little pink bicycle there during a news report early on. Two LE officers were standing on the porch and the bicycle was behind them in the corner. I noticed it was in the same spot tonight when I saw all the gifts that had been left for Lizzy and family. It made me very sad because, of course, it's little girl was brutally murdered and her toys and other possessions are reminders that she so recently lived there and is gone forever. I wondered how JW and her fiance will be able to stay there and how will they deal with all the things Lizzy left behind. I imagined Lizzy riding the bike along the sidewalk. Sometimes it's the littlest things that can really hit the hardest. To be honest, I think I often think too much. If we're so sad; how can we begin to imagine how the family feels or how they'll cope? What a nightmare. Thank God he'll never be free to walk the streets again.
 
Trudie said:
Wasn’t it stated Lizzy was sleeping when he arrived & he never had contact with her?
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I must have missed that part of the thread -- thanks.
Interesting -- he didn't see her -- so what put all that awfulness in his evil mind? Maybe they were talking about her & that set him off. Maybe he was trying to hurt those happy people in the room that night. Jealousy? Why should she be so happy -- I wasn't. What was it??
Damm.
 
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pepper 34 said:
I wonder if anyone knows the answer to my question about his parole. His jail sentence was pushed aside after serving some amount of time and he was let go on probation. But... isn't a prerequisite for being let out that he has a relative or friend or someone responsible who vouches that he'll have a place to live? That's my understanding but I'm not really sure. However, I can't see a court system letting him go with well wishing: "Go be homeless somewhere... oh, and good luck."

I think, since he was staying with his mother, she may have agreed that he must remain in residence at her home as part of his probation agreement (?) If he were my son and began drinking and knocking off on the counseling... all he'd have to do is throw one ashtray or punch one wall in my house and I wouldn't have thrown him out. I'd have called police immediately and had him arrested. I think there was too much tolerance shown and too many things ignored when it came to his behavior. Tough love, imo, would have worked a lot better than to turn a blind eye; wishing and hoping, for something to magically intervene and make it all go away and be better. If he had just been stopped as soon as he began to run his own show and probation be damned... last January... we probably never would have heard there was a missing little 5 year old girl in Utah named Lizzy.
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I believe you may have misunderstood AW's felony conviction, and resultant probation.

Probation typically occurs prior to and/or instead of serving prison time; and parole is an early release from prison. I believe AW was only held in jail pre-conviction awaiting trial/plea and sentencing.

Relative to housing, it's my understanding that a homeless person cannot be held to violate PCRS because if you have no money, you can't help not paying rent and losing the roof over your head.

However, if you're on parole, the convict is eligible for housing assistance and/or transitional housing. Essentially, an early released inmate is still the custody of the state, and eligible for housing whereas probation is not.

Other probation requirements are that you comply with certain court-ordered rules and conditions under the supervision of a probation officer. Typical conditions may include performing community service, meeting with your probation officer, refraining from using illegal drugs or excessive alcohol, avoiding certain people and places, and appearing in court during requested times.

MOO

More about probation at this link.

Probation FAQ - FindLaw
 
Is it possible that when dad (DB) went to bed (at 1 or 2am according to his 911 call), it jarred ES's sleep (it was said in the charging documents that ES's bed was right next to her parents' bedroom door), she ultimately fully awoke a bit later, went downstairs perhaps to watch TV (which may or may not have still been on and making some noise?), where unbeknownst to her, AW was supposed to be sleeping on the couch (presumably where the TV was, since he and the parents had earlier been playing video games together), and whatever happened, happened from there? It seems plausible to me based on the time (6:45am) that AW was first seen (AFAIK) on video, alone and after the fact.
 
I find it disappointing that people/property-owners in the immediate area at least, didn't better examine their own properties fully in the first hours/days after it was reported on the news? (And perhaps especially since other items had already been found in the vicinity of where ES's 'remains' were ultimately located.)
 
deugirtni said:
Is it possible that when dad (DB) went to bed (at 1 or 2am according to his 911 call), it jarred ES's sleep (it was said in the charging documents that ES's bed was right next to her parents' bedroom door), she ultimately fully awoke a bit later, went downstairs perhaps to watch TV (which may or may not have still been on and making some noise?), where unbeknownst to her, AW was supposed to be sleeping on the couch (presumably where the TV was, since he and the parents had earlier been playing video games together), and whatever happened, happened from there? It seems plausible to me based on the time (6:45am) that AW was first seen (AFAIK) on video, alone and after the fact.
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I've entertained such thoughts, and anxious to see layout of the house. Until then I'll just sit on my hands. MOO
 
This case has really gutted me. I think my last shred of hope for humanity has exited the door. Apparently killers don't even require motive any more. I thought there was no way this very young uncle could've/would've done this to his little niece, his sister's young child. One of my sons shares this fellow's birthday, and I also have an older daughter with a child around ES's age - her kids LOVE their uncle so much, and vice versa, so this whole thing when police suspected this guy was unfathomable to me. I thought for SURE they had the wrong guy. Impossible! I thought maybe AW had exited the home and little ES had followed him, unbeknownst to him, and subsequently been picked up by a predator, perhaps to be miles away by the time of the missing report. Gawd I feel so naive!

The whole thing about the knife and the pipe and the blood is SO disturbing. I will be interested to know if a SA took place (will police even release that info at this point?).

I could maybe even begin to imagine the possibility (only because we hear of it happening, at least with older uncles) if this was a sicko uncle that couldn't resist his deviant sexual urges, assaulted the child that way, and then, horrified at his own actions, strangled her afterward, or during.. but to think about the possibilities of what he must have ultimately done to her with the knife and etc., is just beyond comprehension at ALL. Just a great big WHY. He had to have actually taken the child, along with the knife and murderous intent, it just seems unreal. (Unless she was assaulted while still in the home, perhaps strangled, and then taken to be cut up and disposed of to remove the evidence afterward - but there was nothing said about any evidence of that sort of scenario inside the home.)

Where did the PVC pipe come from? What was the red substance in which AW's palm-print was found (other items were confirmed to be blood)?

As far as I have heard from police when they located ES, they said they believed they had located her remains. Maybe it's just me, but it stuck out for me that they didn't say they believed they had found her body.. but her remains. One news reporter is on video (from before ES was found) saying she had been dismembered (obviously the man got his words mixed up, or his meanings, from when police had charged AW with 'desecration of a body'). But I do wonder if indeed, that is what AW did to her body.
 
deugirtni said:
I find it disappointing that people/property-owners in the immediate area at least, didn't better examine their own properties fully in the first hours/days after it was reported on the news? (And perhaps especially since other items had already been found in the vicinity of where ES's 'remains' were ultimately located.)
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It was a holiday weekend. People may have been out of town.
 
Seattle1 said:
I've entertained such thoughts, and anxious to see layout of the house. Until then I'll just sit on my hands. MOO
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Just wondering this because sometimes people (including myself) will wake up out of the blue at some unreasonable hour.. only to perhaps later discover that something had occurred just prior to that, like someone had come into or out of the house, or spouse had woken up and gone to get water, or the pet had jumped on or off of the bed, or something had triggered that awakening. Not looking to 'blame' anyone if that had happened in this case, but makes more sense than AW seeking the victim out of a sleep in her own bed in the wee hours, right beside the parents' bedroom door... an entire evening/night full of unfortunate circumstances.
 
pepper 34 said:
I wonder if anyone knows the answer to my question about his parole. His jail sentence was pushed aside after serving some amount of time and he was let go on probation. But... isn't a prerequisite for being let out that he has a relative or friend or someone responsible who vouches that he'll have a place to live? That's my understanding but I'm not really sure. However, I can't see a court system letting him go with well wishing: "Go be homeless somewhere... oh, and good luck."

I think, since he was staying with his mother, she may have agreed that he must remain in residence at her home as part of his probation agreement (?) If he were my son and began drinking and knocking off on the counseling... all he'd have to do is throw one ashtray or punch one wall in my house and I wouldn't have thrown him out. I'd have called police immediately and had him arrested. I think there was too much tolerance shown and too many things ignored when it came to his behavior. Tough love, imo, would have worked a lot better than to turn a blind eye; wishing and hoping, for something to magically intervene and make it all go away and be better. If he had just been stopped as soon as he began to run his own show and probation be damned... last January... we probably never would have heard there was a missing little 5 year old girl in Utah named Lizzy.
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Yes, it is true that having a place to live is usually one of the conditions of probation, at least where I live. If you can't prove that you are residing somewhere legitimate, it is a violation and you can end up in jail. Whenever you go from one place to another, even if it is just for a few days, you have to report it to your probation officer.
So apparently he broke the terms of probation when he stopped going to treatment, starting using drugs again, and stopped showing up.
Maybe his stepmother took him in because he had nowhere else to go. Too bad she didn't just call the police. Imo
 
Has anyone been on google earth and looked at her house?.

I went on it to see the close proximity of her house and where she was located. There are children playing in the front garden. I wonder if this street view took place when lizzy lived there.

Im also glad in a way that he isnt to be given the death penalty. He wont be on death row where he will be kept seperate. If americas jails are anything like englands then he is in for a very rough time. English jails and prisoners are well known to make child killers and child sexual abusers lives a living hell. Even prison officers have been known to turn their back when attacks take place.

Rest in peace swert angel.
 
borndem said:
bbm
Agree -- and also agree, because we've all seen great examples of personal victories of someone rising above a life like that and becoming a good citizen, parent, etc., etc.
Bu with this one, his upbringing and probable physical and mental abuse were more than this person could overcome -- no excuses, no "poor guy," etc.
But his history and personality were coupled with alcohol (not an excuse, by any means, but it can be a trigger) that night (and previous nights, I am sure, and who knows what else), and for him, and many others, it put him in an even more angry and cruel frame of mind, and the worst happened -- to the one who was least able to defend herself.
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Agree completely, Also would not be surprised to learn some kind of drugs were involved that’s led to this horrific crime MOO
 
deugirtni said:
I find it disappointing that people/property-owners in the immediate area at least, didn't better examine their own properties fully in the first hours/days after it was reported on the news? (And perhaps especially since other items had already been found in the vicinity of where ES's 'remains' were ultimately located.)
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I am sure everyone involved in the case had the best intentions and went above and beyond to find sweet Lizzy.

I did have the same thought though. I would like to think that if something similar happened where I lived and I was out of town, I would call whoever I could. I’d call the police, the tip line, etc and give whoever I could permission to check my property. If I couldn’t give official approval verbally, then I’d get a neighbor or friend... but I suppose even then the police wouldn’t technically be allowed on the property so it would just be private citizens with no training on what to look for.

It’s possible someone who was out of town didn’t even hear about the news until they got back.

So many should’ve could’ve would’ve!

Like AW should’ve just NOT brutalized his niece!

hm I wonder how familiar AW was with that area given his family (FAMILY!) is nearby and he was a walker/wanderer.

I don’t think that area where Lizzy was found is a place where you’d stumble upon on happenstance. It seems like an alley between property lines. Sort of random. I’ve seen similar but usually it’s wide enough for a garbage truck to go through and collect trash (!) that way.

I bet he made a beeline there because he had come across it before and saw it was a good hiding spot.
 
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Hello :)
I would like to thank everyone that has posted on the threads for ES.
While I have been busy at work, I was able to keep up with the developments of the case through your hard work and diligence.
Needless to say, the outcome is was, more than likely, what we all expected but, not what we were hoping for.
Again, thank you for posting the information you gathered in your sleuthing.
I have only recently been approved and am looking forward to being a contributing member.
 
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