VA - 12 Dead including shooter, VA Beach Municipal Center, 31 May 2019

[human]

Virginia Beach shooter's kin offer condolences in note taped up outside home

Virginia Beach shooter's kin offer condolences in note taped up outside home

Seems like a good way to express their feelings. It would be really hard to be in the public eye

 

[Momof4RN]

Why would he use a suppressor?

I actually just got finished reading an article about that. Silence...so no one knows to run. No situational awareness...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.w...ach-sets-an-ominous-precedent/?outputType=amp

 

[Momof4RN]

Here’s another article about the suppressor. Seems it made it difficult for LE to pinpoint where he was in the building. I have been wondering when the first 911 call went in. Usually there r reports of multiple 911 calls from the start and that doesn’t seem to have happened here. According to this timeline it was 9 minutes before police were alerted and on scene. IMO the suppressor allowed him to move through the parking lot and through 3 floors before anyone really knew what was going on.

Virginia Beach shooting timeline

 

[Elley Mae]

Here’s another article about the suppressor. Seems it made it difficult for LE to pinpoint where he was in the building. I have been wondering when the first 911 call went in. Usually there r reports of multiple 911 calls from the start and that doesn’t seem to have happened here. According to this timeline it was 9 minutes before police were alerted and on scene. IMO the suppressor allowed him to move through the parking lot and through 3 floors before anyone really knew what was going on.

Virginia Beach shooting timeline

Absolutely.

Having heard a semi automatic 22 LR(long rifle) w/ suppressor it was the same as a beeman bb gun.

Shot in doors it is hard to hear outdoors, 3rd floor victims probably didn’t hear the shots on first floor.

Eta.

That could at least partially explain why survivors of the attack said they were caught off guard and initially puzzled by what was happening. One described hearing something that sounded like a nail gun.

Did 'silencer' make a difference in Virginia Beach carnage?

Iirc one victim said he thought it was a nail gun until the sheet rock was coming apart on his side.

 

[JnRyan]

All 17 of those years were likely not "good" years for retirement. Probably didn't have enough points to retire in 3 years, and he was only 40, so another decade or so of pretty low wage weekend drill national guard duty may not have been attractive to him, for a small pension after age 65. Or maybe he converted his years into government service equivalents to get more government retirement ("buy out"). Or maybe he had an injury. Who knows.

As an example, a former military person can buy out their years of service if they are currently, for example, VA employees-- to get a higher pension, when their military years alone aren't enough for a pension. The buy out rate is different for every person, based on rank, years of service, government job, etc. (Active duty 20+ years gets their retirement immediately regardless of age; reservists have to wait to age 65+ regardless of what age they retire, after 20 "good" years of points/ service.)

I think you hit it on that first one. I read where he was only a specialist and that is what, an E-4? He can get his pension from reserve or NG time at 60. But with only reserve time and no active duty time it would not be much as an E-4. I don't know if VA Beach employees can buy time using the reserve or active time. I know Federal employees can and maybe state employees.

 

[Elley Mae]

But he recently started showing serious behavioral problems and got into physical “scuffles” with other city workers, a source told The New York Times.

The source told the paper that the troubles had escalated in the week leading up to the mass shooting — and Craddock was involved in what it called “a violent altercation on city grounds.”

https://nypost.com/2019/06/02/deway...orkers-before-virginia-beach-shooting-report/

The city engineer was sitting quiet and still in his white Subaru just after sunrise outside the gray duplex where he lived alone. His neighbor, who lived directly below, saw him staring straight head in the driver’s seat. Unusual, she thought, since he typically had a later start on Fridays.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...ory.html?utm_term=.665710db412a&noredirect=on

Divorce records show that the couple split in 2017, about the same time neighbors noticed that the wife and the dogs no longer were around.

 

[JnRyan]

Absolutely.

Having heard a semi automatic 22 LR(long rifle) w/ suppressor it was the same as a beeman bb gun.

Shot in doors it is hard to hear outdoors, 3rd floor victims probably didn’t hear the shots on first floor.

Eta.

That could at least partially explain why survivors of the attack said they were caught off guard and initially puzzled by what was happening. One described hearing something that sounded like a nail gun.

Did 'silencer' make a difference in Virginia Beach carnage?

Iirc one victim said he thought it was a nail gun until the sheet rock was coming apart on his side.

A .22 with a quality suppressor is much like a pellet gun, but it isn't like that with a .45. And we have not heard if this was a commercially made suppressor or home made. Trying to locate a gun shot in a 3 story building is not easy with or without that suppressor. Walls muffle or deflect the sound. You have to realize it is not like looking for a non-deadly sound or smell where you can stroll around. You're trying to utilize cover, clear rooms and watch your back. AND you don't know if there is only one shooter.

 

[Elley Mae]

Maybe he thought Friday was going to be his last day.

Some places of employment have certain ways of letting ppl go. He may have thought at the end of the day the hammer would fall. If true he was in violent fight/physical scuffles with ppl at work he probably was right in his thinking.

 

[Elley Mae]

 

[JnRyan]

I don't believe a lot of the news is sorted out yet. In the beginning we heard Craddock had been fired, one article stated a rifle had been found, had been a member of the military and had been divorced. Then we later hear, yes, he had been in military but as a member of an artillery unit with conflicting statements that he had been deployed and that he had not been deployed. I believe it has been confirmed that he had a sound suppressor for his gun, but we don't know if he bought one legally or made it. I heard he had "extended" capacity magazines and I question that point. Did have 15-20 round magazines? Or, like in the case of Glocks for an example, was he using the magazines for the larger Glock 21 (13 rounds) in a Glock 30 (normally 10 rounds) and would that really be an "extended" magazine. This is a huge tragedy and I get concerned if the media sometimes tries to sensationalize it. Bigger news sells. But that is not what the friends and families need right now.

 

[AC4RD]

I don't want to seem argumentative, but I'm a quiet, mild-mannered, ordinary sort of person. One of my friends says I'm "an old hippie." And i've purchased firearms recently and I have multiple magazines. (I may be a hippie but I'm a heavily armed hippie.) One of my best friends, a target shooter, also has. So I'm not sure recent purchasing or multiple magazines are really relevant.

 

[JnRyan]

Here is another video. This a .45 with the Osprey suppressor. It basically makes the .45 sound more like a .380.

 

[Elley Mae]

I don't want to seem argumentative, but I'm a quiet, mild-mannered, ordinary sort of person. One of my friends says I'm "an old hippie." And i've purchased firearms recently and I have multiple magazines. (I may be a hippie but I'm a heavily armed hippie.) One of my best friends, a target shooter, also has. So I'm not sure recent purchasing or multiple magazines are really relevant.

The recent purchases for the 2 45’s were 2016 & 2018. The rifle was at his home and iirc another pistol.


....

Virginia has no law restricting large capacity ammunition magazines. Virginia law does prohibit the carrying of certain loaded high-powered firearms in public places in certain cities.

Large Capacity Ammunition Magazines in Virginia | Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence

 

[JnRyan]

I don't want to seem argumentative, but I'm a quiet, mild-mannered, ordinary sort of person. One of my friends says I'm "an old hippie." And i've purchased firearms recently and I have multiple magazines. (I may be a hippie but I'm a heavily armed hippie.) One of my best friends, a target shooter, also has. So I'm not sure recent purchasing or multiple magazines are really relevant.

The recent purchases for the 2 45’s were 2016 & 2018. The rifle was at his home and iirc another pistol.


....

Virginia has no law restricting large capacity ammunition magazines. Virginia law does prohibit the carrying of certain loaded high-powered firearms in public places in certain cities.

Large Capacity Ammunition Magazines in Virginia | Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence

But we don't know yet what this killer was carrying. And what is a "large" capacity magazine. When the so-called Assault Weapons Ban came out Congress arbitrarily decided it was anything over 10 rounds. Even those states that do restrict the capacity don't all agree. One state may state anything over 10 rounds for an AR-15 is illegal and then you have CA which states anything over 5 rounds for an AR-15 is illegal. I also still want to hear more about what this guy was using and I haven't seen that yet.

 

[JnRyan]

OK, maybe CNN has a clarification on Craddock's military service. I read where he had 17 years in the National Guard, left as a specialist (E-4?) and conflicting reports of whether he ever deployed. This article states he only stayed for about 5-6 years (got out in 2002) and there is no record of overseas deployments.
Virginia Beach gunman DeWayne Craddock was a longtime city engineer - CNN

 

[human]

The bottom line is that he killed 11 people so far with his weapon (s).

I doubt if the relatives care with what kind of gun their loved one was killed.

 

[Elley Mae]

Heard on radio he sent boss resignation letter friday morning.

Wbal radio

 

[Jax49]

Virginia Beach gunman gave 2 weeks notice Friday but was in 'good standing' in his job

The longtime Virginia Beach public works employee behind the nation's latest mass shooting put in his two-weeks notice on Friday morning, hours before he carried out an attack that killed 12 and wounded four, city officials said Sunday.

Four victims of the shooting were recovering Sunday at two area hospitals. One at Sentara Virginia Beach General Hospital was downgraded from fair to critical condition following a surgery and two others there remain in critical condition, hospital officials said.

 

[Sweetsbeach]

The bottom line is that he killed 11 people so far with his weapon (s).

I doubt if the relatives care with what kind of gun their loved one was killed.

He killed 12.

 

[JnRyan]

The bottom line is that he killed 11 people so far with his weapon (s).

I doubt if the relatives care with what kind of gun their loved one was killed.

More important than the weapons - and I do believe the media is confusing the issue with things like 'suppressor' and 'extended magazines' - is who is DeWayne Craddock? And not so much about him for the sake of being curious, but what characteristics did he display in the days, weeks and even months leading up to the event? What can the rest of us take from it as warning signs to avoid this in the future? Guns are only one form of tool. Such a disturbed individual can make a bomb and do an untold amount of damage. Removing one tool treats the symptom. The Boston Marathon bombers are a case in point. I want to know what to look for, if that is even possible. Professionals in the fields of human behavior have given us some things to look for or listen for in preventing suicides. What can we learn and look for to prevent mass homicides? Maybe those professionals will throw their hands up and say, 'We don't know.' But I would still like to try.