Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #105

[sunshineray]

I would agree that it's quite likely the killer has provided LE with detailed info, maybe a description, to throw LE off base. And they know that now.

It could also explain the discounting of a single witness's description just a few days after the crime in favor of multiple witnesses descriptions a ways after the fact. It's also possible just by nature of who they are, credence was given to them over the other who was actually describing them. That could explain that feeling of anger, almost betrayal, during the April PC.

 

[janewall]

I'm not tech savvy at all (and often not quite logically thinking too ), therefore maybe my question is verrry stupid: Is it possible, that BG changed time stamps on Libby's phone, so it wouldn't be identifiable later on, which was first: Abby's pic or video of BG? Abby's snapchat pic was sent to a friend, so the time is really 2:07h and confirmed by a person. But what is with the time of recording? Perhaps BG is a genius in changing/mixing/moving the content of a phone? He had time enough for doing something like that (if makeable), because afaik the phone was found the next day only.

That is a terrifying idea. I hope not, and unless he's someone who works in telecommunications at a highly specialized level I can't imagine he'd be able to manipulate her phone network's data - I don't think the timestamps would just be on her phone. But I don't know that for sure, and if it is possible, that is a huge security liability for pretty much everyone who's plugged into any sort of connective device.

Now I'm thoroughly creeped out, and I have questions for my son who actually does this stuff for a living, but I'm not calling him at this hour! 'Night folks.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The empty bridge photo is the one I was talking about above. Will try to find the searcher photo. I’m sure there have got to be some pics out there from the south end of the bridge showing the alleged path they took. I don’t think any of this means anything. I’m just curious about it.

End of bridge, looking down the hill.
(I saved it without mention of the source.)

 

[Charlot123]

(Snipped by me for focus)
2 quick ideas (already discussed here on WS):
a.) LE maybe received a very useful tip in the last 4-5 months, changing their focus from the older-looking suspect to the younger-looking suspect (i. e., perhaps a tip came in that confirmed or refuted another possible suspect's alibi) , or...

b.) LE finally received back a super-detailed DNA analysis (maybe from Parabon?), including a "facial sketch", or "sketches" of a possible suspect (JMO speculation here, since I know nothing about the whole DNA submission process, though I have heard/read that it takes "awhile" for detailed results to come back).

Would be interested to read from other WS-ers here about the actual length of time it takes, from submitting DNA samples, to LE's receipt of, say, facial sketch(es), a forensic family tree, etc. TIA.

They are backlogged. Things have become more difficult now that Gedmatch has introduced the need to opt-in. However, we don't know their DNA situation.

I have a horrible suspicion that the perpetrator, BG, knows about the DNA. And perhaps since Libby put up so much fight, he has done everything possible that his DNA could not be left on her body.

I am almost positive that I am right. Initially I thought that he was simply angry with her for resisting, but now I wonder if his actions were meant to protect himself.

So, maybe he really attended the same criminology class at Purdue? Perhaps not at the same time, as she would have remembered him. But makes sense to check.

Also, it is not some methhead who is constantly high and psychotic. This person is aware of the new scientific advances. He reads. Probably Googles, too.

 

[sunshineray]

(Snipped by me for focus)
2 quick ideas (already discussed here on WS):
a.) LE maybe received a very useful tip in the last 4-5 months, changing their focus from the older-looking suspect to the younger-looking suspect (i. e., perhaps a tip came in that confirmed or refuted another possible suspect's alibi) , or...

b.) LE finally received back a super-detailed DNA analysis (maybe from Parabon?), including a "facial sketch", or "sketches" of a possible suspect (JMO speculation here, since I know nothing about the whole DNA submission process, though I have heard/read that it takes "awhile" for detailed results to come back).

Would be interested to read from other WS-ers here about the actual length of time it takes, from submitting DNA samples, to LE's receipt of, say, facial sketch(es), a forensic family tree, etc. TIA.

The Sheriff said in mid-January this year, in Radar Online article, that they'd sent DNA to FBI for "DNA testing research" in late December last year. I do believe they found out some useful things from that and started re-investigating early tips and alibis. AJMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

View from end of bridge/platform to driveway underneath.

 

[Charlot123]

Regarding the usage of DNA to approximate facial features and characteristics, does anyone know if it is the similar method the 23andme DNA kits use? If so, and if that is where the 2nd sketch came from, I find it very concerning.

I had a 23andme kit done and it's assessment of what I most likely look like is so incredibly inaccurate. I would even say it's the EXACT opposite. I pray that's not an issue in this case.

@Sugarcane18 , they are getting better. It is all about percentages. If 75% of people with your genome have detached earlobes, they'd go with that. Keep in mind, they know all human genes, but they have no clue what most of them are responsible for, and how they interact. They are just learning.

 

[gitana1]

This video was very illuminating to me. It shows that the path to the bridge was longer than I thought, and makes me think they first came across BG there as mentioned in an earlier thread. This would also explain to me why Libby was uncomfortable enough to start filming the guy on the bridge.

Either they just passed by the guy and noticed him start following them, or there was an exchange that made them uncomfortable, then concerned them more when they noticed him coming toward them on the bridge.

I think he waited to follow them, considering the bridge is empty in the pic of Abby, maybe to make sure they were isolated on the other side.

So in the photo he is behind them, walking toward them away from the north west end? And given the length of the approach on the trail to the northwest end, he likely had to have passed them?

I know in the case of the murderer of Amber Dubois and Chelsea King, the woman who got away from him reported that she was running on the trail and noticed him drinking not beers on the side of the trail. They said hi to each other. On her way back he came at her from the brush and pulled her into the brush.

In the case of Hannah Graham they pass each other and then the perp does a u turn and doubles back to get to her.

Are you thinking he was either loitering on the trail or coming back from off the bridge, saw them, they passed and he turned around and went back (if he came from there) onto the bridge after them?

So they say this weird dude and we're leery when they saw him rushing back toward them on the bridge?

Scary images to ponder.

They were probably frozen with fear if they saw him suddenly there, having followed them fast. Terrified.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

...
(snipped by me for focus)

So, maybe he really attended the same criminology class at Purdue? Perhaps not at the same time, as she would have remembered him. But makes sense to check.

Also, it is not some methhead who is constantly high and psychotic. This person is aware of the new scientific advances. He reads. Probably Googles, too.

And also: He probably "Websleuths" (with a nod to Tricia, who must love that WS/WS-ing has moved into "verb" status), too -- creepy, that thought. (If the suspect is reading this now, please, just #turnyourselfin. The sooner the better.)

p. s. Yes, @Charlot123 -- have for a long time thought that he & L attended the forensic class at Purdue at the same time. JMO. Though W. Lafayette is not the size of, say, NYC, Toronto, LA, or Chicago, for an Indiana city, it's a good-sized town, and it's a college town, so a higher possibility that students from a small town might meet in person when taking an on-campus class -- during lecture breaks, or after class. Thus, should 2 students from the same small town (i. e., Delphi) meet, and in a West Lafayette classroom, therefore, it wouldn't be surprising at all for them to chat a bit (Say, do you like the coffee shop in town?, Ever go to the high school basketball games [at Delphi HS]?, Ever been on the High Bridge Trail?, etc.). MOO; just a theory -- nothing but my own experience attending classes in larger cities, and meeting others there who were from, or near, my little "cow town".

 

[Charlot123]

I'm not tech savvy at all (and often not quite logically thinking too ), therefore maybe my question is verrry stupid: Is it possible, that BG changed time stamps on Libby's phone, so it wouldn't be identifiable later on, which was first: Abby's pic or video of BG? Abby's snapchat pic was sent to a friend, so the time is really 2:07h and confirmed by a person. But what is with the time of recording? Perhaps BG is a genius in changing/mixing/moving the content of a phone? He had time enough for doing something like that (if makeable), because afaik the phone was found the next day only.

I doubt he was in the frame of mind to do it after the murder. Honestly, I don't think he was in awe of what he had done. I think he was probably scared and got away from that place rather quickly. Someone could have done it, but this guy is neither James Bond, nor Rodion Raskolnikov. He is just a sicko who should be taking his meds.

 

[Charlot123]

And also: He probably "Websleuths" (with a nod to Tricia, who must love that WS/WS-ing has moved into "verb" status), too -- creepy, that thought. (If the suspect is reading this now, please, just #turnyourselfin. The sooner the better.)

p. s. Yes, @Charlot123 -- have for a long time thought that he & L attended the forensic class at Purdue at the same time. JMO. Though W. Lafayette is not the size of, say, NYC, Toronto, LA, or Chicago, for an Indiana city, it's a good-sized town, and it's a college town, so a higher possibility that students from a small town might meet in person when taking an on-campus class -- during lecture breaks, or after class. Thus, should 2 students from the same small town (i. e., Delphi) meet, and in a West Lafayette classroom, therefore, it wouldn't be surprising at all for them to chat a bit (Say, do you like the coffee shop in town?, Ever go to the high school basketball games [at Delphi HS]?, Ever been on the High Bridge Trail?, etc.). MOO; just a theory -- nothing but my own experience attending classes in larger cities, and meeting others there who were from, or near, my little "cow town".

Purdue has excellent reputation for some of its schools.

Why I think they have not met? Had they met, Libby would have recognized him on the trail. She probably had good memory for faces and looks. No, I think he took the same class, but at other time. But I assume if Purdue has such classes, and Libby took them, and he is from Delphi, chances are, he used the same source for education. He must have asked questions about DNA, too.

(I believe he is horribly scared now, btw).

I don't think he always follows everything written about him. Of all the people under this sun, he now cares only about the opinion of Doug Carter.

He won't turn himself in because to do so, one has to be a mensch. And he, who tried to prove his manliness by killing two teenage girls, does not have it in him, to turn himself in. He probably feels empty, rotten, and easily deflated.

 

[Sugarcane18]

@Sugarcane18 , they are getting better. It is all about percentages. If 75% of people with your genome have detached earlobes, they'd go with that. Keep in mind, they know all human genes, but they have no clue what most of them are responsible for, and how they interact. They are just learning.

Fascinating points, thank you for the clarifications!

 

[susiQ]

View attachment 187464
View from end of bridge/platform to driveway underneath.
View attachment 187465 View attachment 187466

Great pics! I really wonder about that road/laneway beneath the bridge. Was there a car down there for an escape? Admittedly, I haven't been here that long and that may have been discounted already. Feel free to bring me up to date

 

[Boxer]

dbm duplicate

 

[Sneaker33]

Purdue has excellent reputation for some of its schools.

Why I think they have not met? Had they met, Libby would have recognized him on the trail. She probably had good memory for faces and looks. No, I think he took the same class, but at other time. But I assume if Purdue has such classes, and Libby took them, and he is from Delphi, chances are, he used the same source for education. He must have asked questions about DNA, too.

(I believe he is horribly scared now, btw).

I don't think he always follows everything written about him. Of all the people under this sun, he now cares only about the opinion of Doug Carter.

He won't turn himself in because to do so, one has to be a mensch. And he, who tried to prove his manliness by killing two teenage girls, does not have it in him, to turn himself in. He probably feels empty, rotten, and easily deflated.

I think Libby studied forensics via a summer program designed for children and teens. Many colleges have programs for kids on Saturdays and during school vacation.

 

[tresir2012]

Thank you! It does look difficult to see from the bridge. Like I said, someone might’ve been able to see a flash of bright color, but not anything substantial.

I can’t attach the news photo from the scene side facing the bridge because it’s too large of a file and I can’t just copy the pic and save it because it’s copyrighted. Not sure if we can post twitter links and it was on an ABC newscaster’s twitter feed.

You can post links to MSM Twitter feed.

 

[Jax49]

In this interview Indiana State Police Superintendent Carter clears up his opinion on the two sketches. About the 4:10 mark, he talks about when the perp is caught, he will be somewhere between the two sketches.

Reposting this link after receiving Tricia's permission. Thanks T.

 

[kkdj]

In this interview Indiana State Police Superintendent Carter clears up his opinion on the two sketches. About the 4:10 mark, he talks about when the perp is caught, he will be somewhere between the two sketches.

Reposting this link after receiving Tricia's permission. Thanks T.

Yes, I found that interesting. So, how would one recognize a person from either sketch?

 

[Jax49]

Yes, I found that interesting. So, how would one recognize a person from either sketch?

SMH. It makes me dizzy. I have a high opinion of Carter, but he can be confusing. moo

 

[Jax49]

dbm