GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #72

[DaisyKenny]

And at the very end we hear DA Rourke saying what he has always said about Watts' motive being to get a fresh start with his mistress. So how does that fit with their expert claiming he snapped like many other family annihilators moments before in the same program?
It's like the producers of these shows can't even recognize the glaring inconsistencies in their own programming.

 

[Kittybunny]

So...maybe y'all have dissected and discussed this already, but one thing I personally had not seen was the moment where Detective Tammy Lee switched tactics and planted/suggested the idea that Shannan had been the one to hurt the girls and then CW had reacted to that. I really thought CW had come up with that in his evil mind. I'm sorry, but that really really bothers me, because no way was "deer in the headlights" CW smart enough to have ever thought of that on his own - but you could see the lightbulb go on over his head after the seed was planted, and he thought "A-HA! This is my way out and not look like the bad guy!" and then he asks for his dad. I know detectives use all sorts of different tactics to elicit confessions, but this one is really unfortunate because it led down a path where poor Shannan had serious aspersions cast on her character and for a time many people believed she really did kill her precious girls. At the least, she was doubted and vilified even after he pled guilty, and still is vilified to this day by a whole slew of internet vampires and vultures, and I have to wonder, if that story had never seen the light of day whether CW would still have his little nutty supporters out there to the degree he has.

Sorry, but to me, Detective Tammy really stepped in it with that one. Maybe she didn't believe he would seize on that and go there, but still. When I think about the extra pain her family and friends went through because of that...sad. I think he would've caved regardless eventually.

 

[WhatDidYouDo]

I was annoyed by that too - planting the seed. But we have to remember the agenda she had in that moment. While the tape was eventually sensationalized and used to make money by the media, she was successful in completing her task that day - getting a murderer of 4 behind bars.

To the comments about whether they had sex - I don't think its far fetched to believe that there was an attempt at least. SW was very much in love with her husband and wanted to keep him. She might have tried to please him and he couldn't perform. There's no way I think he got on top of her and had a heated convo with her while straddling her but I believe he was on top of her when he killed her.

 

[Ultra Violet]

I listened to it this morning, and did not watch the screen very much. Like others have mentioned above, there were a few parts that needed a little more work because they seemed to contradict each other.

The story seemed to go so fast, compared to the volume of information that is known and discussed here. I am sure every case is just as complex, but it really felt like it could have easily been a two-parter to fill in all the blanks.

The did mention NK coming to the police, like she did them a huge favor and broke the case. Wasn’t she already on LE’s radar because of the work emails? That nails on chalkboard voice was rough, but they did air NK saying that she knew he was in the process of separating, which conflicted with her story printed in The Denver Post aling those somber-yet-tacky headshots.

I did not see if Mother Watts was onscreen, but was very happy to have no mention or soundbites of her bleating her “forgiveness.”So that part of it was a huge success.

jmo

 

[skyedaze]

I only watched to see the video of SW coming up to her front door for the last time. Her loyal friend backed out of the driveway and purposefully waited for her pregnant friend to not only open the door, but go inside....all just to make sure she was inside her home all safe and sound.
Shanann would have been safer inside a tiger cage with pork chop smeared all over her.
And those babies...only a true monster has them sit in the backseat with their mom's body and then wait their turn to be snuffed out and stuffed in nasty oil tank.
There's no "snap"...he knew what he was doing...he made a choice for his own life and they were in the way.
No snap...a choice...a conscious decision.

 

[Only4Justice]

I was annoyed by that too - planting the seed. But we have to remember the agenda she had in that moment. While the tape was eventually sensationalized and used to make money by the media, she was successful in completing her task that day - getting a murderer of 4 behind bars.

RSBM

Add to this, they were still looking for Shanann and the girls at that time. The tactic worked.

 

[WhatDidYouDo]

He def didn't snap - lets just pretend for a moment that's what Shannan said - how do you explain the girls? Shannan's statement was so enraging that she should be killed because she threatened to keep him from the girls, but then he goes and kills the girls an hour later? After much opportunity to calm down etc. ??? Puh-lease. It just doesn't add up.

 

[La Louve]

Thanks for all the reviews of the latest documentary. I missed that it was airing so soon, but hadn't really planned to watch it. Too soon for me. Every time I see CWs smirky face I viscerally want to smash it with a brick.

 

[ilovewings]

I was annoyed by that too - planting the seed. But we have to remember the agenda she had in that moment. While the tape was eventually sensationalized and used to make money by the media, she was successful in completing her task that day - getting a murderer of 4 behind bars.

To the comments about whether they had sex - I don't think its far fetched to believe that there was an attempt at least. SW was very much in love with her husband and wanted to keep him. She might have tried to please him and he couldn't perform. There's no way I think he got on top of her and had a heated convo with her while straddling her but I believe he was on top of her when he killed her.

I agree with planting the seed and how annoying it was, but the police do this quite often: how many times have we seen the police bring in the perp who they know or believe they know murdered someone and they start discussing the situation and say
"well, perhaps it was an accident", at which point the perp jumps on that idea-- when the police know fully well it was no accident and they have forsensic evidence to prove it---i think it is just a tactic they use -- and it must work as it did in the Watts case cause CW is locked up for the rest of his miserable life. Sometimes you have to lose the battle to win the war.

 

[Trident]

And at the very end we hear DA Rourke saying what he has always said about Watts' motive being to get a fresh start with his mistress. So how does that fit with their expert claiming he snapped like many other family annihilators moments before in the same program?
It's like the producers of these shows can't even recognize the glaring inconsistencies in their own programming.

I know I'm a little late to this party, but here's my take on it: CW has been thinking about being rid of his family to start over with his mistress, daydreaming about it, even tentatively planning how to do it - blueskying if you will; Then all of a sudden there's an argument, threats, and he does "snap", performing the deeds that have previously run through his mind.

I'm not sure he did premeditate the murders, he was just thinking "what if". How many of us have had thoughts, wishes that things could be different? If we're honest, I'll bet most of us, but we didn't always act on them. Sometimes though, when we felt pushed enough or stressed, we did - often to our detriment.

In no way am I defending CW, who in their right mind could, I'm just explaining how I feel this inconsistency happened. IMO

 

[NuttMegg]

I know I'm a little late to this party, but here's my take on it: CW has been thinking about being rid of his family to start over with his mistress, daydreaming about it, even tentatively planning how to do it - blueskying if you will; Then all of a sudden there's an argument, threats, and he does "snap", performing the deeds that have previously run through his mind.

I'm not sure he did premeditate the murders, he was just thinking "what if". How many of us have had thoughts, wishes that things could be different? If we're honest, I'll bet most of us, but we didn't always act on them. Sometimes though, when we felt pushed enough or stressed, we did - often to our detriment.

In no way am I defending CW, who in their right mind could, I'm just explaining how I feel this inconsistency happened. IMO

But, how would you explain the "snapping" covering taking the little girls to an oil site which required a 1 hour drive? And then killing them there? He had made sure over the weekend that no Anadarko employees would be at the battery site. And it was far from houses and accidental drivers by. He was "unsnapped" enough to talk normally to his co-workers who arrived shortly after he killed them and threw them in the oil, he texted (already dead) Shan'ann at 7:30 to try to spread some cover for himself, ie he was so concerned about where she was taking the kids for the playdate. He had just killed the kids after 7 am, or maybe he was texting Shan'ann just before murdered the kids. To me, a "snap" is something that happens very quickly, it doesn't cover going in and out of the snap for the next hours and days. Anyway, we each have a slightly different explanation of how it happened, given his constant lies.

In my case, I attribute a lot of his decision to the pressure I think he was being given by the mistress, doesn't make it her fault, there is no way for her to know how unstable he was. Mistresses have been pressuring their married boyfriends probably since marriage became an institution. But, I will always wonder about the 111 minute discussion between the mistress and him, just a few hours before the murders began. And the 5 hour date with her on Saturday night where she herself says she was very unhappy at his sudden lack of enthusiasm for looking at the apartments she had chosen for him.

And, Chris described several times....if he had only gone to the Broncos game with Jeremy instead of the date with with mistress, the trajectory would have been different, implying that the murders would not have happened. He said that in several different ways in the confession interview on Feb 18, and he even used the word "trajectory".

 

[Trident]

But, how would you explain the "snapping" covering taking the little girls to an oil site which required a 1 hour drive? And then killing them there? He had made sure over the weekend that no Anadarko employees would be at the battery site. And it was far from houses and accidental drivers by. He was "unsnapped" enough to talk normally to his co-workers who arrived shortly after he killed them and threw them in the oil, he texted (already dead) Shan'ann at 7:30 to try to spread some cover for himself, ie he was so concerned about where she was taking the kids for the playdate. He had just killed the kids after 7 am, or maybe he was texting Shan'ann just before murdered the kids. To me, a "snap" is something that happens very quickly, it doesn't cover going in and out of the snap for the next hours and days. Anyway, we each have a slightly different explanation of how it happened, given his constant lies.

In my case, I attribute a lot of his decision to the pressure I think he was being given by the mistress, doesn't make it her fault, there is no way for her to know how unstable he was. But, I will always wonder about the 111 minute discussion between the mistress and him, just a few hours before the murders began.

You make some excellent points, things I may not have considered. You also showed me something about myself, with your first word, "But". I'm always so quick to see any disagreement as a hostile act, wrong on my part, probably the cause of many problems. There are two sides to every coin, some may have 3 or more. Talking for myself, it's always good to feel the coin, turn it over and look at all the sides - know thyself, something I need to do more.

These boards can be helpful in many ways, thank you.

 

[NuttMegg]

You make some excellent points, things I may not have considered. You also showed me something about myself, with your first word, "But". I'm always so quick to see any disagreement as a hostile act, wrong on my part, probably the cause of many problems. There are two sides to every coin, some may have 3 or more. Talking for myself, it's always good to feel the coin, turn it over and look at all the sides - know thyself, something I need to do more.

These boards can be helpful in many ways, thank you.

You'll probably hear a different slant from the other posters, there are so many lies from him, it's hard to put value in a sentence that starts "Even CW said......". But I do it all the time, based on my lie-radar.

One other thing I forgot to mention is that CW said (interview Feb 18) he knew he was going to murder when he woke up that morning, paraphrased, he didn't use the word "murder", but it was implied.

 

[La Louve]

I know I'm a little late to this party, but here's my take on it: CW has been thinking about being rid of his family to start over with his mistress, daydreaming about it, even tentatively planning how to do it - blueskying if you will; Then all of a sudden there's an argument, threats, and he does "snap", performing the deeds that have previously run through his mind.

I'm not sure he did premeditate the murders, he was just thinking "what if". How many of us have had thoughts, wishes that things could be different? If we're honest, I'll bet most of us, but we didn't always act on them. Sometimes though, when we felt pushed enough or stressed, we did - often to our detriment.

In no way am I defending CW, who in their right mind could, I'm just explaining how I feel this inconsistency happened. IMO

I think I get what you mean.

"Snapped" more like a light switch going on, rather than his mind breaking like a twig being snapped underfoot.

I do think he thought about it in enough detail beforehand that he knew he would put them in the oil tanks. But he hadn't thought it through enough to realize Shannan wouldn't fit through the hatches.

ETA he thought he was so smart and he ended up being exposed as the stupid manchild he really is.

 

[Trident]

I think I get what you mean.

"Snapped" more like a light switch going on, rather than his mind breaking like a twig being snapped underfoot.

Yes, exactly.

 

[Only4Justice]

He def didn't snap - lets just pretend for a moment that's what Shannan said - how do you explain the girls? Shannan's statement was so enraging that she should be killed because she threatened to keep him from the girls, but then he goes and kills the girls an hour later? After much opportunity to calm down etc. ??? Puh-lease. It just doesn't add up.

Exactly. And then the little girls I didn’t want to lose I drown and/or strangle them in oil tanks

 

[WhatDidYouDo]

Not only does he kill them - he does it in such a disrespectful manner. He pays even less regard to them than Shannan who he at least buried.

 

[cakegirl0905]

Not sure where else to put this. I live in the Boulder area but never drove past the house before. Today I was out near that part of town and drove past it.
It was sad. The house just echos lonlieness. It’s so big, the windows are kind of shut up I think just with curtains but it felt gloomy. The grass was both dying because no one has turned on the sprinkler system and overgrown because no one is cutting it. The girls’ play set is wooden and is fading in the sun.
I know how obvious it is to say this, but seeing that house made it real how this should have never happened. Those girls should be playing in the pool down the street, that house should be full of life. Seeing that house just really hit me what an absolute abomination this was. All four of them should still be there, living happily.
Edit- and by four of them, I mean Shannan, Bella, Cece, and Nico.

 

[Utsarah]

It is a tragedy I can’t get out of my head for some reason. The two girls look so happy and vibrant in their photos. I’ll never be able to wrap my mind around what happened to Shannan, Cece, Bella and Nico. If there’s any truth to CW’s most recent version of events poor Bella’s last moments had to be terrifying and confusing.

 

[AlyBaba]

I listened to it this morning, and did not watch the screen very much. Like others have mentioned above, there were a few parts that needed a little more work because they seemed to contradict each other.

The story seemed to go so fast, compared to the volume of information that is known and discussed here. I am sure every case is just as complex, but it really felt like it could have easily been a two-parter to fill in all the blanks.

The did mention NK coming to the police, like she did them a huge favor and broke the case. Wasn’t she already on LE’s radar because of the work emails? That nails on chalkboard voice was rough, but they did air NK saying that she knew he was in the process of separating, which conflicted with her story printed in The Denver Post aling those somber-yet-tacky headshots.

I did not see if Mother Watts was onscreen, but was very happy to have no mention or soundbites of her bleating her “forgiveness.”So that part of it was a huge success.

jmo

There are so many lies told by NK -lets move away from"inconsistencies" ! How did she not tell LE anything - really ANYTHING- about the 111 minute phone call the night before the murders??? And LE went with that ? She was goading CW, IMO, saying Im sick of you not choosing between me and Shannan- its so obvious ! So he the gullible fool slaughtered his family. And she is living her life freely !!! that is SO SO wrong. MOO