Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #105

[sumzero]

I wonder if the person involved in the newly released sketch reached out to LE, expressing concern and uncertainty in the way Carter originally announced the new sketch to be that of “the face” of the suspect. Because now Carter seems to be backing away from total accuracy by suggesting the suspect’s appearance may be somewhere between the two sketches.

Interesting idea. The fact that DC has since hedged on the accuracy of the second sketch, coupled with the fact the LE had this sketch available just days after the murders but didn't release it, suggests to me that they're not really sold on the sketch at all.

 

[sumzero]

Yes that's what he said, by the April PC they knew more than right after the murders. (I took that to mean about the offender, DNA testings, interviews, tips, profiling) After April PC, they know even more because more tips and re-interviewing has new focus. I think he meant to assure that it's not a cold case, KE is not at a standstill, they're moving forward in the investigation. JMO

Processing thousands of tips by definition allows LE to gain new information. Doesn't mean the information is all that helpful. But who knows?

 

[susiQ]

I wouldn't be surprised if the so-called "new direction" was not the result of new information but a desperate attempt to keep this case in the public eye, so it doesn't go cold.

I'm more inclined to think that something came in, perhaps to the tip line weeks before the PC that made them take another look at something they had long since dismissed. Unfortunately, the anonymous tip may have been a bit vague depending on how fearful that person was. Maybe it was just enough to let them know they were NOT on the right track and in what direction they should be looking without actually naming the person they suspected. LE realized they need the public (human intelligence DC called it) to move the case forward. Maybe that tip was enough for them to know that the killer did tell someone and that possibly others may know and that he is familiar with the Delphi area and the MHB. Just a thought.

 

[Cutiekitty]

I know I've been a broken record about this but, yes. It was a HUGE movie. I live in a tiny town without a cinema but in the next county over we have a Regal with 16 screens and THE SHACK sold out 8 of them for 2 nights in a row. It is one of the highest grossing Christian movies that has EVER been released. Ever. It may even be the highest now. I haven't checked. That dang movie was everywhere. I had to put people on my Facebook feed on "ignore" because, frankly, I got tired of hearing about it.

It was big in Delphi, too. I live in the buckle of the Bible Belt, but my people in Delphi were loading up to go and see it, too. Not only was it a Christian movie, but it was a double whammy for starring Tim McGraw. If it had aired on the Hallmark Channel then it would've made the trifecta of feel-good message movies.

I’m definitely geographically in the Bible Belt, but not in the buckle. I literally drive past 6 large churches and 2 private Christian schools on my way to work which is about 8 miles from my house. I also work on in a pretty conservative profession and I still have cable so I get to see movie ads (never saw one for The Shack). I do live in a much larger city (pop. between 190-200K) and maybe that’s why.

I’m not doubting the movie’s popularity, I’ve just never heard of it and was surprised it came up twice in the case within 7 months.

 

[mtnlites]

I’m definitely geographically in the Bible Belt, but not in the buckle. I literally drive past 6 large churches and 2 private Christian schools on my way to work which is about 8 miles from my house. I also work on in a pretty conservative profession and I still have cable so I get to see movie ads (never saw one for The Shack). I do live in a much larger city (pop. between 190-200K) and maybe that’s why.

I’m not doubting the movie’s popularity, I’ve just never heard of it and was surprised it came up twice in the case within 7 months.

Different experiences for different folks, I guess. It was also the #1 bestseller on the NYT list for several weeks a few years before the film was made.

ETA: It's funny how once something gets on your radar you suddenly start seeing references everywhere.

 

[Cutiekitty]

I never take constructive or corrective comments or even criticism in a bad way so I don't think anything you said is cynical.

I do think sometimes LE feels they have enough and it's the prosecutor who want that one more thing to ace a conviction in their mind.

Yep

 

[ab01]

Different experiences for different folks, I guess. It was also the #1 bestseller on the NYT list for several weeks a few years before the film was made.

ETA: It's funny how once something gets on your radar you suddenly start seeing references everywhere.

Yah it was rather popular, especially among religious folk

I don't think there's anything particularly telling about it as it relates to the case

Other than apparently Superintendent Carter had apparently watched it and it seemed to strike a cord with him as I'm sure it did many people.

With so little new information released about this case it seems that we all are starved with finding some meaning in everything that LE has said

Couple that with the likelihood that many have tried to find connections with their own poi's and it becomes a virtual merry go round

I don't believe LE has a particular POI at the center of their investigation, and they have a mountains worth of evidence more than I have

Therefore it's hard for me to get behind any theory that is tied simply to one specific individual

It could very well be someone religious, Teacher, coach, City official etc

I still lean towards it being someone who is on the fringe of society, not well known, probably doesn't interact with a large number of people and likely lives outside of Delphi city limits.

And past cases of these types of crimes would tend to confirm that

I think we will all be absolutely shocked when BG is finally identified, but not bc he is some well known individual. But because he was on absolutely nobody's radar

JMO

 

[raja]

dbm

 

[Cutiekitty]

Different experiences for different folks, I guess. It was also the #1 bestseller on the NYT list for several weeks a few years before the film was made.

ETA: It's funny how once something gets on your radar you suddenly start seeing references everywhere.

BBM - True.

 

[ab01]

You know in crimes like this it’s not uncommon for acquaintances to recognize a perp off of one single grainy surveillance image. Yet not connect them to the crime bc they just have that nagging doubt that it couldn’t possibly be them.

In this case you have video footage of the perp, audio of the perp, eye witness sketches of the perp.

I don’t believe that anybody is intentionally covering for BG in this case. Jmo

Which makes me even more confused how we still don’t know who this monster is.

All the little identifying things that investigators would absolutely love to have, we have in this case.

I think they have been shocked from very early on that nobody has seemingly called him in

As am I

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

From the families, I thought I read MP saying that Libby put up a fight, but maybe I misunderstood? If so, I'd like to.get a better idea, it is important. Either she fought, and then someone should have had some scratches, or, she did not have the time, and then he simply got rid of everything that could have his DNA.

But about criminal DNA, he knows more that I do. Because if the LE are still sorting DNAs out (This was in mainstream news - I think the LE's name started with H, he said something along the lines, they needed to sort whose DNA was whose, or something like it)..., it means, BG got rid of at least some contaminated items. And I, for example, would not know how to do it, how to get rid of evidence.

Question, where did he find it out? Criminology classes, books or Google searches?

I’m wondering if, when Carter said the suspect “made mistakes” he was referring to DNA being left behind. I have speculated on this before, but I’m wondering now if the DNA could have been explained away through an alibi, but it recently came to light that the alibi doesn’t add up. Perhaps another person covering for the suspect?Total speculation here.

 

[tresir2012]

I wonder about that reporter’s comment.

Number one on my list is the belief that any evidence found near the crime scene would certainly be collected. Clothing in the water especially, as it risks getting swept away. So how did the reporter sight girls clothing near the crime scene in order to definitely connect it to the victims because iirc it was after the bodies were found and removed that the media helicopters flew overhead. Are we to believe all the masses of investigators who arrived on site just didn’t notice the girls’ clothing right there in the water nearby, especially if the bodies were unclothed, until a reporter spotted it? I just have a hard time believing clothing in water, known to be what the girls were wearing, would go unnoticed by LE.

It is best to go to the scanner thread for details of the search. Probably beginning around page 10 - specifically page 11 post 204 and discussions after that. Scanner info not to be brought up to the main thread.

eta I just saw Jax has put the link in post below. Thx Jax. Scanner thread can also be accessed on post 1 of every thread.

 

[Jax49]

It is best to go to the scanner thread for details of the search. Probably beginning around page 10.

Somewhere about here:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...s-scanner-thread.333467/page-10#post-13299892

 

[tresir2012]

I’m definitely geographically in the Bible Belt, but not in the buckle. I literally drive past 6 large churches and 2 private Christian schools on my way to work which is about 8 miles from my house. I also work on in a pretty conservative profession and I still have cable so I get to see movie ads (never saw one for The Shack). I do live in a much larger city (pop. between 190-200K) and maybe that’s why.

I’m not doubting the movie’s popularity, I’ve just never heard of it and was surprised it came up twice in the case within 7 months.

I've never heard of it either till I read about it on here after the PC. And I saw Renner's interviews one at a time as he made them and I didn't remember Kelsie mentioning it either at the time or when Carter referenced it. I do remember her talking about forgiveness but the movie reference didn't register with me, I don't know why. I think I have to watch/listen to things several times to get every nuance.

 

[Cutiekitty]

You know in crimes like this it’s not uncommon for acquaintances to recognize a perp off of one single grainy surveillance image. Yet not connect them to the crime bc they just have that nagging doubt that it couldn’t possibly be them.

In this case you have video footage of the perp, audio of the perp, eye witness sketches of the perp.

I don’t believe that anybody is intentionally covering for BG in this case. Jmo

Which makes me even more confused how we still don’t know who this monster is.

All the little identifying things that investigators would absolutely love to have, we have in this case.

I think they have been shocked from very early on that nobody has seemingly called him in

As am I

I don’t think LE was shocked that no one has called BG in. Surprised maybe, but not shocked. The still/video are more than grainy, there doesn’t appear to be anything really distinctive about BGs voice - it’s somewhat generic, BG isn’t stating anything that really stands out, and eye witness accounts can be questionable. JMO

 

[mtnlites]

You know in crimes like this it’s not uncommon for acquaintances to recognize a perp off of one single grainy surveillance image. Yet not connect them to the crime bc they just have that nagging doubt that it couldn’t possibly be them.

In this case you have video footage of the perp, audio of the perp, eye witness sketches of the perp.

I don’t believe that anybody is intentionally covering for BG in this case. Jmo

Which makes me even more confused how we still don’t know who this monster is.

All the little identifying things that investigators would absolutely love to have, we have in this case.

I think they have been shocked from very early on that nobody has seemingly called him in

As am I

I know I'm shocked. Crimes have been solved on much less than what we have here, especially those with videos that are of a lot less quality.

 

[rainwaterstill]

In general librarians are extremely reluctant to divulge the borrowing history of their patrons, and in at least some jurisdictions are not allowed to without a court order. (And they have been known to fight such a court order.) It's a civil liberties/First Amendment issue. With that in mind, I can't see how LE would be able to demand a blanket search of the entire borrowing history of particular books. If they had a particular suspect in mind, a request for that particular person's history might be honored, depending on local/state law.

ETA: MOO

I think they may have some kind of information that makes them think that BG has been following every detail of this case and investigation. I don't know what that may be. It's not uncommon for killers to act really interested in the news and stuff, but Carter sure sounded confident.

And in the past, at least one killer logged onto WS and was following the thread related to the victim's murder, apparently to see if the killer's name was being mentioned as a suspect. It was, at or near the top of most people's "Suspect who probably did it" lists.

Who checked out what library book when is a privacy issue. Court order is needed to view it, and if someone is asking for a court order, there had better be a very good reason. Most modern circulation software systems do not sustain a long-term link between the person and the book they borrow. When the book is returned, the link between the person's name and the book title is broken when the book is scanned in. When librarians need to remove books from a collection ( outdated, physical condition of the book, newer edition, whatever) the software will tell them that that particular copy of the book was checked out *advertiser censored* number of times and the last checkout was YZ months or years ago, but not who checked it out 5 years ago.

 

[Jabarn]

I know I'm shocked. Crimes have been solved on much less than what we have here, especially those with videos that are of a lot less quality.

All I can think is the video was so pixelated, it led to Everyman, like a Greek tragedy.

It will take reverse engineering- I mean finding him through DNA, tips, or confession and then matching him to the video, maybe. I still think it’s good evidence in the likelihood some of those other aspects work out.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

Tonight at 11pm EST on the ID channel “Still A Mystery” this covers Libby, Abby & Dylan Redwine.
Investigation Discovery TV Schedule | Watch Now for FREE!
Many thanks @SCHMAE for posting the info on Dylan’s thread

 

[Cutiekitty]

I've never heard of it either till I read about it on here after the PC. And I saw Renner's interviews one at a time as he made them and I didn't remember Kelsie mentioning it either at the time or when Carter referenced it. I do remember her talking about forgiveness but the movie reference didn't register with me, I don't know why. I think I have to watch/listen to things several times to get every nuance.

When Carter mentioned it I thought it was weird, but had no clue what he was talking about (had to Google it). Then I stumbled upon Renner’s interviews a couple of weeks ago and KG was talking about it too. Is it something? IDK. I just thought it was weird and hadn’t seen it mentioned on here before, but I do miss some things.

I really like his interviews. I especially liked the one with AW. I haven’t heard her speak much and the way she speaks as a mother reminds me of me. Quite a few questions that I’ve had regarding the case in general have been answered based on his interviews.