Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #105

[Spy Versus Spy]

Finally caught up again. You guys can certainly chatter. All thoughtful stuff.

A couple of Q's that crossed my mind and hoping someone may know or have opinion on.

What Individual or Agency will have ultimately made the call not to use YBG sketch at the time it was first available?

Imo, LE are to some extent aware of SM and websites such as WS re this case. Given that the general public prob get info from 1 or 2 sources at most and arent as obsessively aware of contradictions or minute differences of wordage or intonation etc as here, do you think LE are aware of the contradictory nature of info being released depending on source/individual LE/intvw etc? ( Even given that some info is deliberately obfuscated). The recent post re DC being seemingly unaware of the dna statement of fellow LE/Law source for instance.

What point or points would members add to a list of clarifications needed?

Outside of Operational reasons, if LE are aware of such instances, why do they not clarify? ( not factual clarifications like the 13th feb not 14th meant or 'abandoned' etc) why can there be no 'on message' unity of info across agencies/individuals.

Coffee needed.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Delphi double homicides: 'Horrible to live like this,' a year after Abby and Libby were killed

Finally this Morn....This article from Feb 2018 shows that the initial tipline was v busy and based and manned in Delphi for the first week. So early on in the investigation tips would have been logged etc locally. From article...


THE 911 DISPATCHER: KILLER’S WORLD GETTING SMALLER EVERY DAY Cassi Lane said she knew that finding Abby and Libby’s killer wasn’t going to be easy two days after the girls were found, when investigators installed a phone bank at the Delphi Police Department. “The moment we set up a tip line with 10 phones with 10 lines each, I knew we were in for the long haul,” said Lane, lead communicator for Carroll County 911.

(PICTURE :Cassi Lane talks Tuesday, February 6, 2018, about the long work days during the initial investigation into the murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams in Delphi. The two girls were murdered February 13, 2017, while hiking the Monon High Bridge Trail just east of Delphi. Lane, who is lead communicator for Carroll County 911, said she worked 12-14 hour days fielding tips that were phoned into her office.)

<modsnip 10% rule>

 

[MingyMoo]

Ive had a request in to Tricia, via Harmony2, to see if I can post the James Renner series of 'Virtually a Detective' 10 eps relating to the Delphi case. Will give a little bump to the request as a few posters are mentioning it. Imo its a well balanced and useful source.

I watched all 10 parts the other day highly recommended.

 

[Falling Down]

Yep the most likely reason for this case not being solved is the absolute randomness of it and by an absolute unkown individual. If this was a case of someone familiar to the victims we wouldn't still be here

Statistically these are the most difficult crimes to solve

Which makes me wonder about BG's familiarity with the bridge and nearby trails. Nobody recognized him that day, however LE appear to be convinced there's a local type of connection in the case.

JMO

-FD

 

[ilovechili]

I ran across this article on a 43 year old case being solved with family tree genetics. The term "hiding in plain sight" was used.
MOO to me the phrase is has come to mean a criminal for whom police have CS DNA but their DNA is not in CODIS. If the criminal can stay free a subsequent police DNA swab, they live a normal life in the community. I don't think Carter would misuse police jargon.

Arrest in 43-year-old murder case stuns Wisconsin town

Wow, with that article, never heard this before. Hiding in plain sight, no kidding. Good father, good married man. Uh-huh. It is a shame he lived free all of those years.

Let's hope the perp in this case does not.

 

[tresir2012]

DNA that isn't already in CODIS needs the public to turn in people to test it against. Family tree DNA searches don't always work out. But they probably haven't entirely given up on DNA yet.

How are they eliminating suspects
so quickly without at least some form
of DNA or fingerprint?

Shoe size (footprints leading from/to crime scene ) ?

 

[Cutiekitty]

Ive had a request in to Tricia, via Harmony2, to see if I can post the James Renner series of 'Virtually a Detective' 10 eps relating to the Delphi case. Will give a little bump to the request as a few posters are mentioning it. Imo its a well balanced and useful source.

BBM - I totally agree. He was able to elicit some useful and interesting information directly from people involved with the case. The video format is a little strange (VR), but it’s not necessary to actually watch the video. I just listened to it.

 

[kkdj]

I would not be surprised if he followed them on SM, though. Enough to get obsessed He does not need much. But for them, he was a total stranger, of course. He might be following a lot of young women.

BBM
That's a very scary thought!

 

[kkdj]

Ive had a request in to Tricia, via Harmony2, to see if I can post the James Renner series of 'Virtually a Detective' 10 eps relating to the Delphi case. Will give a little bump to the request as a few posters are mentioning it. Imo its a well balanced and useful source.

I would be very interested in seeing this.

 

[FinePrint]

I was trying to think what kind of evidence BG could have left behind. I guess it all depends on the way he actually killed the girls. DNA possibly, rope possibly, fiber, hair...

Not sure what else could have been left behind. We know for sure one thing he left behind or did not take with him and that is Libby's phone.... for cripes sake we've got an actual video of him and his voice which is to me the holly grail.

I feel that if LE had his DNA, did a familial search, it would not be hard to narrow down who BG is by now....they know what he looks like, they know what he sounds like, they know he is from the area (or so they say).

Something prompted the last big press conference, I'm convinced of it!! I had hoped it had something to do with DNA but now as time passes I'm not so sure.

 

[Spartygirl]

I agree.
MOO I think BG came from south side of the bridge, walked out past them far enough to see the other side clearly, suddenly turned around and aggressed on them. I think this because MOO if they saw a man approaching that far in advance on the bridge, they would at least try not be on the bridge itself by the time he got to them.

Especially with Abbys house close by where they could have ran to. But then again, if they had seen him heading toward them from the N end, they also may not have had that sense of danger so took their time with pictures, etc. not realizing or feeling anything was "off" with him heading towards them from N end until he was closer to them.

 

[TL4S]

Yep the most likely reason for this case not being solved is the absolute randomness of it and by an absolute unkown individual. If this was a case of someone familiar to the victims we wouldn't still be here

Statistically these are the most difficult crimes to solve

I think you are exactly right. Maybe BG, himself, didn't even know what he was going to do that day. No planning, no disguise, no worrying about where to park, etc. Something set him off with those girls, and right now, only BG (and possibly LE) knows what.

 

[kkdj]

I think you are exactly right. Maybe BG, himself, didn't even know what he was going to do that day. No planning, no disguise, no worrying about where to park, etc. Something set him off with those girls, and right now, only BG (and possibly LE) knows what.

If so, I would think there would be some record of him having violent outbursts prior.
This is a huge crime and I can't imagine it's his first violent crime.

 

[TL4S]

I was trying to think what kind of evidence BG could have left behind. I guess it all depends on the way he actually killed the girls. DNA possibly, rope possibly, fiber, hair...

Not sure what else could have been left behind. We know for sure one thing he left behind or did not take with him and that is Libby's phone.... for cripes sake we've got an actual video of him and his voice which is to me the holly grail.

I feel that if LE had his DNA, did a familial search, it would not be hard to narrow down who BG is by now....they know what he looks like, they know what he sounds like, they know he is from the area (or so they say).

Something prompted the last big press conference, I'm convinced of it!! I had hoped it had something to do with DNA but now as time passes I'm not so sure.

I agree, if LE says they have enough evidence to convict, than what is that evidence? It could be DNA, but like you said, it could be other things, like something on the audio, fibers, hair, etc. Maybe one of the girls got a hold of his hair. If they didn't pull it out by the root, they still could have broken some. No nDNA, but LE knows the color, race, chemical exposure, and may have some mDNA?

Or, and I know this is reaching and very unpopular, they have hair and DNA that likely matches the killer via his dog or cat or horse or cow, etc. DNA by any other name is still DNA.

 

[FinePrint]

If so, I would think there would be some record of him having violent outbursts prior.
This is a huge crime and I can't imagine it's his first violent crime.

You would think and that is what I thought.... but then the other night I watched that show about Chris Watts, he didn't have a violent background and suddenly he kills his wife and kids.

It is just so hard to imagine what happens to a persons brain that makes them want to take someones life. Is is just a sudden urge or is it something that builds up over time and then is acted upon?

 

[TL4S]

You would think and that is what I thought.... but then the other night I watched that show about Chris Watts, he didn't have a violent background and suddenly he kills his wife and kids.

It is just so hard to imagine what happens to a persons brain that makes them want to take someones life. Is is just a sudden urge or is it something that builds up over time and then is acted upon?

Yes, and since we don't know BG's motive, it's hard to say. Something drove him to murder that day, but we know nothing beyond that. Hopefully LE does.

 

[kkdj]

You would think and that is what I thought.... but then the other night I watched that show about Chris Watts, he didn't have a violent background and suddenly he kills his wife and kids.

It is just so hard to imagine what happens to a persons brain that makes them want to take someones life. Is is just a sudden urge or is it something that builds up over time and then is acted upon?

Yes, but with CW it was familial. He was having a highly sexual affair. It was a no brainer who did that....still crazy tho. Who does that to their own family?
I think otherwise would have a violent (and current) background.

 

[ab01]

Admin note: Be sure to read the parameters for posting laid out in post #1 and 2 by Tricia.

Pay particular attention to this quote from Tricia:

DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

Members who insist on breaking our rules by continually casting suspicion on people who have not been designated as suspects or POIs have and will be placed on thread reply bans.

 

[zencompass]

Ive had a request in to Tricia, via Harmony2, to see if I can post the James Renner series of 'Virtually a Detective' 10 eps relating to the Delphi case. Will give a little bump to the request as a few posters are mentioning it. Imo its a well balanced and useful source.

Dear @Spy Versus Spy,

Thank you for requesting permission to post the link to James Renner video series relating to the Delphi case.

I am one of the posters who has mentioned his videos.

While watching his videos, his genuineness and respect was immediately apparent to me as he spoke with Libby's sister's Kelsi as well as Becky Patty .

He provided a space for them to share their memories of Libby and seeing Becky Patty and Kelsi smile and even laugh at some memories was endearing. During these interviews, his questions were relevant to the case, as well as respectful.
These are my opinions I have formed from watching his series.

As well as James Renner being a published author, he was a reporter with the "Cleveland Scene".

I see that he has continued with investigations of crimes, and his videos are genuine and without rumors or innuendo. This has been my experience watching his work.

I do hope that you are given permission to post the link to James Renner. In addition, I would be very interested in discussing any of his videos concerning this case.

It is the deep respect he shows towards the family members, as well as the way he sticks to the facts of the case that makes me want others to be able to view and discuss his work on this case.

Thank you for requesting this.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Dear @Spy Versus Spy,

Thank you for requesting permission to post the link to James Renner video series relating to the Delphi case.

I am one of the posters who has mentioned his videos.

While watching his videos, his genuineness and respect was immediately apparent to me as he spoke with Libby's sister's Kelsi as well as Becky Patty .

As well as James Renner being a published author, he was a reporter with the "Cleveland Scene".

I see that he has continued with investigations of crimes, and his videos are genuine and without rumors or innuendo. This has been my experience watching his work.

I do hope that you are given permission to post the link to James Renner. In addition, I would be very interested in discussing any of his videos concerning this case.

It is the deep respect he shows towards the family members, as well as the way he sticks to the facts of the case that makes me want others to be able to view and discuss his work on this case.

Thank you for requesting this.

TY Zen.

ITA with you regarding JR's credentials and Professionalism.

Imo he is also a good interviewer, knows his topic well and asks pertinent questions in a respectful manner.

I know lots of you were well aware of the series previous to me but I found them really useful when trying to first orientate myself in the case. ( thanks @Stella8 )