OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#48

[Cool Cats]

Has FW's "receipt" for the vests been posted here? If so, does anyone have a link? I would love to see it. Can't wait till tomorrow.

Receipts are here this is all 8 exhibits listed for Fred in her Discovery.

Go to top left corner, click on pages, then all 62 pages will come up. Just click on what you want to see. *** Not the easiest to read however. ***

Motion to Dismiss Fredericka Wagner Charges (Audra Levy WXIX Fox 19 Verified)

And here is a much better photo of the BPVs #27 and #28 in evidence from the search of her property.
https://expo.advance.net/img/c82000048e/width960/b04_11fredericka015b

Audra Levy
VERIFIED
Cincinnati, OH
Digital Executive Producer — WRTV-TV (Indianapolis, IN)
U.S.

 

[Dudly]

Receipts are here this is all 8 exhibits listed for Fred in her Discovery.

Go to top left corner, click on pages, then all 62 pages will come up. Just click on what you want to see. *** Not the easiest to read however. ***

Motion to Dismiss Fredericka Wagner Charges (Audra Levy WXIX Fox 19 Verified)

And here is a much better photo of the BPVs #27 and #28 in evidence from the search of her property.
https://expo.advance.net/img/c82000048e/width960/b04_11fredericka015b

Audra Levy
VERIFIED
Cincinnati, OH
Digital Executive Producer — WRTV-TV (Indianapolis, IN)
U.S.

Interesting description on page 59. It is a bullet proof garment but "Not intended to protect against sharp edged or pointed instruments." So it will stop a bullet but not a sharpened wooden pencil?
Also notice the year of manufacture on that label is 2012.

 

[Antimony]

Bullet proof vests (aka body armor) will stop pistol rounds up to a limit. Probably will not stop .223 (AR-15). The .223 bullet is pointy and is moving about twice as fast as a 9mm bullet. As a matter of fact, some guy was killed by his best friend while demonstrate how body armor could stop a dagger. It couldn't. Body armor has it's most value stopping shrapnel and fragments. Larger and slower stuff.

 

[Cool Cats]

Prosecutors and Jake Wagner’s defense attorneys reach an agreement about who can talk to him while he’s in jail.
For those who haven't seen this and are interested in seeing it.....



1.) Prohibits inmates from cooperating with the Rhoden case.
2.)Prohibits jail staff, deputies, social workers and psychiatric professionals from initiating conversations, with him, about the case.
3.) Prohibits conversations, with him, about his character or past.
**************************************************************************************
4.) However, if Wagner initiates the conversations, those statements could be used against him at his trial.

I thought his statements could not be used against him but evidently they can.

 

[OhioBlues]

Bullet proof vests (aka body armor) will stop pistol rounds up to a limit. Probably will not stop .223 (AR-15). The .223 bullet is pointy and is moving about twice as fast as a 9mm bullet. As a matter of fact, some guy was killed by his best friend while demonstrate how body armor could stop a dagger. It couldn't. Body armor has it's most value stopping shrapnel and fragments. Larger and slower stuff.

Welcome to WS!

Thanks for the info. I wasn't quite certain that BPV and Body Armor are the same thing.

 

[OhioBlues]

If the vests were used in the murders they would have been disposed of with the "special" shoes and other clothing. Did she actually think Billy bought them and used them during the murders then brought them back to her house where they could be found? Thus, did she lie for him thinking it would help him? How could it help him? The vests don't incriminate Billy if there is no evidence on them, and if there is evidence then her lying can't help him.

There would be blood, body fluid, particles of evidence, (microscopic or not) gun powder, DNA, etc...on those vests if they were used in the murders. They shot the victims at such close range and so many times that there would be forensic evidence.
So if she lied, I can't figure out the motive to do so.

Do you mean Fred actually said she knew who killed the Rhodens? She did say she thought it was terrorists. Did she mention anyone else, to make it seem as though it could have been a local like JM? ...... 2 Cents ....

I don't know about Fred but I do think the 4 Wagner's pointed LE towards JM and BJM, as being involved. "All the lies they told us" likely includes all the lies they told about those 2.

My theory is the 2 vests were shipped to FWF because BW lived at FWF. I don't think the vests ever left that farm. I believe it's possible that Chris SR did shoot them and the state has evidence of those 2 damaged vests from the crime scene. Then this is where I run into problems.

I don't believe they were bought in May 2016 for protection. My guess is the W's were concerned LE was aware that they had bought 2 vests and could prove when/where they were purchased. FW bought 2 new vests in case they were ever investigated. She was able to prove that there were 2 'clean' vests. Maybe LE does have a receipt for 2 vests bought prior to the murders. All my theory only.

What if FW purchased 2 vests before the murders and the state has proof? That could be a game changer.

 

[Cool Cats]

My theory is the 2 vests were shipped to FWF because BW lived at FWF. I don't think the vests ever left that farm. I believe it's possible that Chris SR did shoot them and the state has evidence of those 2 damaged vests from the crime scene. Then this is where I run into problems.

I don't believe they were bought in May 2016 for protection. My guess is the W's were concerned LE was aware that they had bought 2 vests and could prove when/where they were purchased. FW bought 2 new vests in case they were ever investigated. FW bought 2 new vests in case they were ever investigated. She was able to prove that there were 2 'clean' vests. Maybe LE does have a receipt for 2 vests bought prior to the murders. All my theory only.

BBM.....2 Cents......

That is a very good theory! My take on your theory is that the Wagner's did purchase BPV's and wore them during the murders but then disposed of them.

Then as you said, they were afraid evidence would come out showing those vests were purchased by them so they bought 2 "fake" vests to create a "fake" paper trail. Throw those vests in and it's like a red herring.

In that case, they deliberately planted those 2 vests in Billy's bathroom and inserted different plates inside that showed dates after April 22nd.

Seriously, they knew they were being questioned which means they must have known they were in jeopardy of being searched, so why deliberately leave 2 vests where they will be discovered? Answer, because they wanted them to be discovered. If they did not want LE to find the vests, LE would not have found them.

Canepa said there is more to the indictment than Owen is revealing. She said you have to look at the 4 corners of the indictment. In other words, it's not as simple as he makes it out to be, it's not simply that Fred forgot she bought them on eBay rather than Amazon.

Owen seems pretty desperate to get potential jurors to believe the State is wasting it's time prosecuting an innocent matriarch. And it is working somewhat. I've read all over SM people's opinions that the State is railroading an innocent grandmother because they really don't have enough evidence to try her family..

 

[Loomis124]

Prosecutors and Jake Wagner’s defense attorneys reach an agreement about who can talk to him while he’s in jail.
For those who haven't seen this and are interested in seeing it.....



1.) Prohibits inmates from cooperating with the Rhoden case.
2.)Prohibits jail staff, deputies, social workers and psychiatric professionals from initiating conversations, with him, about the case.
3.) Prohibits conversations, with him, about his character or past.
**************************************************************************************
4.) However, if Wagner initiates the conversations, those statements could be used against him at his trial.

I thought his statements could not be used against him but evidently they can.

Yes, they can in any other setting, and as long as someone else does not initiate the conversation. I believe he bragged and mouthed off early on and is trying to blame it on others now. Well, too late. JMO

 

[Loomis124]

My theory is the 2 vests were shipped to FWF because BW lived at FWF. I don't think the vests ever left that farm. I believe it's possible that Chris SR did shoot them and the state has evidence of those 2 damaged vests from the crime scene. Then this is where I run into problems.

I don't believe they were bought in May 2016 for protection. My guess is the W's were concerned LE was aware that they had bought 2 vests and could prove when/where they were purchased. FW bought 2 new vests in case they were ever investigated. She was able to prove that there were 2 'clean' vests. Maybe LE does have a receipt for 2 vests bought prior to the murders. All my theory only.

What if FW purchased 2 vests before the murders and the state has proof? That could be a game changer.

I believe you are "right on" with your theory. Exactly what I've thought all along but wouldn't say. Tomorrow should be exciting!

 

[Loomis124]

Does anyone know if RS can be made to testify tomorrow?

 

[Merrygirl]

Interesting description on page 59. It is a bullet proof garment but "Not intended to protect against sharp edged or pointed instruments." So it will stop a bullet but not a sharpened wooden pencil?
Also notice the year of manufacture on that label is 2012.

I was re-reading FW Discovery and happened to notice on Exhibit 4, pg 41 listed as “description: Pocket Shot Stealth, catapult, slingshot, bush, preparedness”. Wonder why Fred would need such a weapon and how much knowledge of one she had in order to order one? (wink!) JMOO

 

[Loomis124]

BBM.....2 Cents......

That is a very good theory! My take on your theory is that the Wagner's did purchase BPV's and wore them during the murders but then disposed of them.

Then as you said, they were afraid evidence would come out showing those vests were purchased by them so they bought 2 "fake" vests to create a "fake" paper trail. Throw those vests in and it's like a red herring.

In that case, they deliberately planted those 2 vests in Billy's bathroom and inserted different plates inside that showed dates after April 22nd.

Seriously, they knew they were being questioned which means they must have known they were in jeopardy of being searched, so why deliberately leave 2 vests where they will be discovered? Answer, because they wanted them to be discovered. If they did not want LE to find the vests, LE would not have found them.

Canepa said there is more to the indictment than Owen is revealing. She said you have to look at the 4 corners of the indictment. In other words, it's not as simple as he makes it out to be, it's not simply that Fred forgot she bought them on eBay rather than Amazon.

Owen seems pretty desperate to get potential jurors to believe the State is wasting it's time prosecuting an innocent matriarch. And it is working somewhat. I've read all over SM people's opinions that the State is railroading an innocent grandmother because they really don't have enough evidence to try her family..

Deleted by Me

 

[Merrygirl]

I believe you are "right on" with your theory. Exactly what I've thought all along but wouldn't say. Tomorrow should be exciting!

I absolutely agree with this theory and have thought along those lines. I believe the vests used for the murders were either destroyed, hidden or discarded somewhere and were unusable. I think the new vests were possibly procured in preparation to take down the LE. JMO

 

[Loomis124]

I was re-reading FW Discovery and happened to notice on Exhibit 4, pg 41 listed as “description: Pocket Shot Stealth, catapult, slingshot, bush, preparedness”. Wonder why Fred would need such a weapon and how much knowledge of one she had in order to order one? (wink!) JMOO

A very good point! However, she sure did perform well in acting out LE with the guns when they came to raid her farm. I could not begin to duplicate that action with such precision. (referring to the interview she and Owen gave at her house)

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes, they can in any other setting, and as long as someone else does not initiate the conversation. I believe he bragged and mouthed off early on and is trying to blame it on others now. Well, too late. JMO

Let's say an inmate goes to LE and says "Jake initiated a conversation with me and gave incriminating statements."
This is a high profile Capital Aggravated Murder Case and his defense can use that and say the inmate is preying on Jake and wanting his 15 minutes of fame.
So I think LE would have the inmate wear a wire to prove what the inmate is saying.

If, as you say, Jake mouthed off earlier, I think that this Motion is retroactive and can help protect him from that and more evidence/proof would be required. I think in the trials of the Wagners it won't be enough for the Jury to just take a witnesse's word for it, I think with these Capital Cases the Jury will need solid evidence to back up witness testimony.
.....2 Cents.......

 

[Loomis124]

Let's say an inmate goes to LE and says "Jake initiated a conversation with me and gave incriminating statements."
This is a high profile Capital Aggravated Murder Case and his defense can use that and say the inmate is preying on Jake and wanting his 15 minutes of fame.
So I think LE would have the inmate wear a wire to prove what the inmate is saying.

If, as you say, Jake mouthed off earlier, I think that this Motion is retroactive and can help protect him from that and more evidence/proof would be required. I think in the trials of the Wagners it won't be enough for the Jury to just take a witnesse's word for it, I think with these Capital Cases the Jury will need solid evidence to back up witness testimony.
.....2

 

[Cool Cats]

What if the inmate/whoever was wearing a wire the moment Jake started talking...

Oh. I had to think for a minute here. You mean what if the device only starts recording when Jake starts talking so it can't be proven that the inmate either did or didn't start the conversation, that no one can tell what was or wasn't said before Jake starts talking.

If that's what you mean then I believe Jake's attorney would get the wire evidence thrown out, for this very reason that you can't tell who initially started the conversation.
I believe the judge would throw out that taped evidence. The judge would need to hear how the conversation initially got started in the first place, and if he can't tell, out goes that evidence.

 

[Cool Cats]

Interesting description on page 59. It is a bullet proof garment but "Not intended to protect against sharp edged or pointed instruments." So it will stop a bullet but not a sharpened wooden pencil?
Also notice the year of manufacture on that label is 2012.

How could it be 2012 if the vest was bought new? The vest sat around for 4 years before being sold? Vests get updated and one sold new in 2016 would at least have a 2016 plate in it. In fact, your sopose to replace the plates every so often and no one would want a 4 year old plate.

Of course unless it was replaced by the buyer? ...... Humm......Only My Speculation....
Any posters who know about BPVs please correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

[Fletcher73]

My theory is the 2 vests were shipped to FWF because BW lived at FWF. I don't think the vests ever left that farm. I believe it's possible that Chris SR did shoot them and the state has evidence of those 2 damaged vests from the crime scene. Then this is where I run into problems.

I don't believe they were bought in May 2016 for protection. My guess is the W's were concerned LE was aware that they had bought 2 vests and could prove when/where they were purchased. FW bought 2 new vests in case they were ever investigated. She was able to prove that there were 2 'clean' vests. Maybe LE does have a receipt for 2 vests bought prior to the murders. All my theory only.

What if FW purchased 2 vests before the murders and the state has proof? That could be a game changer.

What if the BPV were purchased after the murders, because BW et al feared LE would come after the W in a big way (which they did, crashing the gate, etc., even brought an ambulance to at least one raid). LE obviously had a concern - waiting to arrest at a time when they knew the suspects were separated from each other, and away from potential munitions.
Rightfully so - it was a huge concern, if the confidential resource is true that revenge was discussed.
MOO

 

[Fletcher73]

I was re-reading FW Discovery and happened to notice on Exhibit 4, pg 41 listed as “description: Pocket Shot Stealth, catapult, slingshot, bush, preparedness”. Wonder why Fred would need such a weapon and how much knowledge of one she had in order to order one? (wink!) JMOO

I remember some discussion about this a type weapon a few threads back - that perhaps the Pocket Shot device was used by the murderer(s) to distract, that is, bring a potential victim to the door or window. It was speculated that holes in CRsr's front window were caused by such a slingshot (based on apparent diameter) and that got the whole spree started.
jmo