Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #105

[Charlot123]

In the earlier part of the investigation , when only stills of BG were available to the public...so many of us tried to see the face clearly. One of my very first thoughts was that attempted close ups resembled the mask that the vigilante of"V for Vendetta " wore . Total speculation of course . but .sometimes our initial and most simple reactions and thoughts are closer to the truth.

I now wonder if he was wearing a wig. A not-too-well-made wig would make a person look strange.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I think you are referring to a "Guy Fawkes" mask? I see what you mean, except I think the colors are flipped the other way black mask with white eyes instead of white mask with black eyes. MOO.

Yes. Also. .the latex versions vary in coloration and are stretchy and have some movement.

 

[Charlot123]

A- He's still there...until more and more people start arriving to search before the police are called.

There's a reason why LE had an end time for sighting the car at right around the time early searchers would have been voicing more urgent concerns and saying let's call the police. They must think killer was still there.

Edit by me: The police must think it's a real possibility that the killer had still been there*

Either the killer was waiting to get to their car unnoticed and was still there lurking in the woods, trying to avoid being seen by a rapidly growing amount of people arriving on the trails or maybe killer was there in plain sight involved in the initial searching but making sure to slip away to their car (now surrounded by many others) and leave before police arrived. AJMO

After all, we only assume that he killed the girls in that timeframe and walked away. We don't know what was going on on the other side of the creek, because the search was concentrated on "this" side (not where they were found). I wonder if he was busy destroying any clues or going over it, again, and it took him some time.

Just a thought: many homicidal people are also suicidal at the same time. He had a gun, I think. Maybe he was not that scared, thinking, if I am caught, I just kill myself? My life is not worth much anyhow. This could have given him the courage, and when people are not scared, they don't give out the "fear vibes". So he could be around, or he could have gone away, or he could have joined the party.

 

[tresir2012]

Many of you have probably seen these, but I have been looking for a satellite map of the area in winter. It gives me a better picture in my head than the summer, full leaved maps on Google. The water in the creek is higher, but the sandbars are still visible.
The dates are on the pictures.

@Jethro4WS

See these winter satellite views that TL4s posted. If he didn't go along this road then cross at the sandbar, how do you think the girls got to the crime scene? I cannot think of any other way.

Eta I don't think the screenshots came over in the reply above. the original posts are 958 and 959 two pages back.

Eta2 I don't think he went all the way to the end of the road where the house is but approximately halfway along where the creek is nearest to the road and sandbar. Yes it may be steep there, but LE could get down it, if they had parked there, so I think the perp and the girls went that way too. MOO

 

[Mimi in London]

I now wonder if he was wearing a wig. A not-too-well-made wig would make a person look strange.

Has it ever been suggested he may have had a hood up, over his hat?

In one of the stills (not the other) I keep seeing a glimpse (to the right side of his head, left of photo) of what might be the raised hood of his sweatshirt.

Yet the shape and appearance of the head/head-covering is odd, as though the flat cap may be underneath. (Or - as you say Charlot - maybe a wig).

 

[Boxer]

I don't think they went off that road at all. Why would they? They just went DTH from the bridge to get to that road. Then followed that road and it leads right to the sandbar in the creek, where they then cross. MOO.

ETA I just measured the distance from the bridge end along that road to the creek sandbar and it is only 114 metres. Perhaps someone else can check it too? It would only take minutes to get to it. Seconds, if they ran to try to escape him IMO.

Many of you have probably seen these, but I have been looking for a satellite map of the area in winter. It gives me a better picture in my head than the summer, full leaved maps on Google. The water in the creek is higher, but the sandbars are still visible.
The dates are on the pictures.

MOO I looked at the topo map for the south end of the bridge. From the end of the bridge down to the bank of Deer Creek the best looking path that I can see from a map, drops about 50 feet over 600 feet, steeper at first then flatter. To me a a little zig zagging a the top and you are down, very quick. Interestingly the sand bara are a permanent feature on the topo map.

 

[tresir2012]

Could we all post our recent maps in the media, maps, timeline thread also for future reference?

 

[bradfordsleuth]

If BG did wear any kind of mask or face covering, it would explain why DC has commented that we need to focus more on the movements and mannerisms and not the head and face. I may be stretching pretty hard but it is a possibility .
IMOO

I 100% agree with this possibility. He may have looked like Sketch #1 when spotted by some of the witnesses, and then someone 'who saw something they felt needed to be reported' saw him as his real self and described the man in Sketch #2.

LE said that early on that thought he may have changed his look. I have posted about this before, but will add the link for reference. Third paragraph.

All-out manhunt underway for main suspect in murders of two Delphi teens

"Police believe the man may have changed his look to try and hide his identity. They are asking every Hoosier to keep their eyes and ears open."

I personally believe that when they find him, he will look very, very much like sketch #2.

JMO

ETA I know that LE has said that they are not the same person....but LE has also held alot of info close to the vest and originally they said, the first sketch is 'secondary'. An odd way of wording it IMO.

 

[Jethro4WS]

@Jethro4WS

See these winter satellite views that TL4s posted. If he didn't go along this road then cross at the sandbar, how do you think the girls got to the crime scene? I cannot think of any other way.

Eta I don't think the screenshots came over in the reply above. the original posts are 958 and 959 two pages back.

If you watch the JM videos they show what would be the easiest path to the crime scene from the south end of the bridge. The path is not steep at all except coming down from the bridge to the road. JM goes down a well-worn path down to the road right of the end of the bridge and then crosses the road right there. There is then a gently sloping path that is parallel to the bridge heading toward the creek (where the bridge crosses it not in the direction of the crime scene). At about the first support pier of the bridge JM thens turn to the right (east) and goes until she gets to the creek. That is pretty much the easiest path.

The problems with any scenario in how to get from the south end of the bridge to the crime scene depend very much on whether one thinks BG was a local and/or familiar with the area.

For example, if he were local and/or familiar why would he lead the girls 300 feet closer to the house at the end of the road by following the road with the girls where they all could easily be seen from that house unless the theory is also that BG is so familiar with the people that live in the house at the end of the road that BG also knew there was absolutely no one there (even someone that comes over just to check on the house). If he were unfamiliar with the area I can't see BG taking the girls that close to the house at the end of the road that can easily be seen through the trees (since there is no vegetation). Which is why it seems like it makes the most sense to cross the road immediately after coming down the hill at the south end of the bridge rather come down the hill at the end of the bridge and then follow the road east.

Regardless of if BG is familiar with the area why make the traversal to where you want to go harder. It is one thing to go a particular way if you are traveling all by your lonesome but you have two victims - almost certainly in front of BG - and the speed at which they all move and how easily terrain is traversed by all of them is dependent on the girls and not on BG. Falling down would only make things more difficult and is a risk one would think would be mitigated in some way. Standing at the south end of the bridge you have clear view of what would be the easiest way(s) to go.

It isn't impossible to go the way you are talking about but it leaves me questioning BG's plan/improvisation if law enforcement believes BG is local or familiar with the area. But I have that problem with any scenario that has BG and the girls crossing through the creek.

 

[raja]

Well I think he may have shaved to change his look. In the video and the OBG sketch he has a scruffy look. The YBG looks clean shaved. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

The terrain is really steep except in certain areas. Along that road on the south end of the bridge when you go East of the bridge the terrain gets real steep off the edge of the road.

This is a LIDAR plus Elevation and Hydrology of the the area of the bridge area and you can see what the ground looks like under all of those trees and the steepness of the hills.

In a video I watched it looked extremely steep and treacherous going down to the creek along that road "down the hill". That's what made me feel he walked the girls along under the bridge to kind of pathway there, then took that along the creek to the area of crossing where it was more shallow.

 

[tresir2012]

If you watch the JM videos they show what would be the easiest path to the crime scene from the south end of the bridge. The path is not steep at all except coming down from the bridge to the road. JM goes down a well-worn path down to the road right of the end of the bridge and then crosses the road right there. There is then a gently sloping path that is parallel to the bridge heading toward the creek (where the bridge crosses it not in the direction of the crime scene). At about the first support pier of the bridge JM thens turn to the right (east) and goes until she gets to the creek. That is pretty much the easiest path.

The problems with any scenario in how to get from the south end of the bridge to the crime scene depend very much on whether one thinks BG was a local and/or familiar with the area.

For example, if he were local and/or familiar why would he lead the girls 300 feet closer to the house at the end of the road by following the road with the girls where they all could easily be seen from that house unless the theory is also that BG is so familiar with the people that live in the house at the end of the road that BG also knew there was absolutely no one there (even someone that comes over just to check on the house). If he were unfamiliar with the area I can't see BG taking the girls that close to the house at the end of the road that can easily be seen through the trees (since there is no vegetation). Which is why it seems like it makes the most sense to cross the road immediately after coming down the hill at the south end of the bridge rather come down the hill at the end of the bridge and then follow the road east.

Regardless of if BG is familiar with the area why make the traversal to where you want to go harder. It is one thing to go a particular way if you are traveling all by your lonesome but you have two victims - almost certainly in front of BG - and the speed at which they all move and how easily terrain is traversed by all of them is dependent on the girls and not on BG. Falling down would only make things more difficult and is a risk one would think would be mitigated in some way. Standing at the south end of the bridge you have clear view of what would be the easiest way(s) to go.

It isn't impossible to go the way you are talking about but it leaves me questioning BG's plan/improvisation if law enforcement believes BG is local or familiar with the area. But I have that problem with any scenario that has BG and the girls crossing through the creek.

Thanks for your thoughts. I think he knew there was nobody in the house. I don't think he would have chanced taking them any way to the crime scene virtually opposite that house otherwise, because of that chance he would be seen or heard by any occupants IMO.
LE have said none of the re-enactments got it right so I don't know if that includes JM version. I understand your view and either is possible IMO. Do you agree it is only about 115 metres to the creek from the end of the bridge?

 

[Boxer]

Thanks for your thoughts. I think he knew there was nobody in the house. I don't think he would have chanced taking them any way to the crime scene virtually opposite that house otherwise, because of that chance he would be seen or heard by any occupants IMO.
LE have said none of the re-enactments got it right so I don't know if that includes JM version. I understand your view and either is possible IMO. Do you agree it is only about 115 metres to the creek from the end of the bridge?

MOO 180 meters, I have them coming down slightly angled in the little less steep area just east of the bridge end.
Except for a few places that might take some side stepping or zig zagging there is probably a regular informal path, making it quick to walk.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Thanks for your thoughts. I think he knew there was nobody in the house. I don't think he would have chanced taking them any way to the crime scene virtually opposite that house otherwise, because of that chance he would be seen or heard by any occupants IMO.
LE have said none of the re-enactments got it right so I don't know if that includes JM version. I understand your view and either is possible IMO. Do you agree it is only about 115 metres to the creek from the end of the bridge?

115 is a reasonable estimate as the crow flies but it is longer than that to walk since there is not a direct path along that line that would be navigable.

 

[Rossymom]

Looks like Family Members of both girls will be speaking at CrimeCon tomorrow. I hope this brings them one step closer to solving this. Anyone near and planning to attend?

 

[Jethro4WS]

View attachment 188101
Looks like Family Members of both girls will be speaking at CrimeCon tomorrow. I hope this brings them one step closer to solving this. Anyone near and planning to attend?

I know Oxygen is livestreaming some of CrimeCon. Don't know if they will cover the Delphi panel or not.
Live Video Coverage From CrimeCon 2019: Interviews, Panels And Podcasts

 

[MizStery]

Thanks for your thoughts. I think he knew there was nobody in the house. I don't think he would have chanced taking them any way to the crime scene virtually opposite that house otherwise, because of that chance he would be seen or heard by any occupants IMO.

Investigators have repeated over and over they have reason to believe YGB has some type of personal tie to Delphi.

Not only was YBG able to abduct Abby and Libby through difficult terrain ‘in a privately owned close knit rural community’ but he went virtually unchallenged. In addition most homeowners have dogs trained to dispatch trespassers. Yet YBG was able to commit a heartbreaking abduction and murders without once being challenged throughout the execution of his crime and escape.

The only scenario I can come up with is ‘he was on friendly terms with residents schedules, animals and habits’. I cannot buy that he garnered all of the above due to sheer good luck.

MOO

 

[Krwiley60]

I agree with that sentiment. However, Carter did not say they were changing tactics. He said they were changing strategy. Whether that is due to the fuzzy way he communicates, or said that way intentionally, of a difference of no consequence.....I just do not know.

It’s like he’s saying well, that didn’t work so we’re changing strategies. (Trying to read between the lines). It’s such a broad statement, I wish he would have used another word.

 

[Cutiekitty]

I agree with that sentiment. However, Carter did not say they were changing tactics. He said they were changing strategy. Whether that is due to the fuzzy way he communicates, or said that way intentionally, of a difference of no consequence.....I just do not know.

Dbm

 

[tresir2012]

115 is a reasonable estimate as the crow flies but it is longer than that to walk since there is not a direct path along that line that would be navigable.

I could only measure it with google as the crow flies so we agree there.