GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #12

[Gunslinging Granny]

“I still think they came by car, but there is no question whatsoever that Mrs. Dermond’s body was, in my opinion, disposed of by boat,” Sills said.

As for the number of assailants involved, Sills said, “If one person did this, he spent the weekend. It’s just my opinion that it would just be impossible for one person.
New details as mystery reigns in year-old Dermond lake murders

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

The Dermonds' Rolex watches weren't stolen, but this doesn't mean they didn't die from a robbery attempt. Rolexes have a serial number that's easily tracked back to the purchaser. Pawn shops have surveillance cameras and require IDs. These items would be easily tracked back to the killer and therefore, weren't worth taking.

Has it been revealed if the Dermond's home had a wall or floor-hidden safe that could have attracted construction or maintenance workers who knew about it?

Is it known if the Dermonds recently divested of gold bars, rare coins, or other liquid assets? Many years ago, my elderly neighbors were held at gunpoint by two men and robbed of the gold and rare coins they stupidly stored in their home.
Here's Why You Shouldn't Store Precious Metals Yourself (Hint: It's More Than The Risk Of Theft)

 

[TJtennispro]

I am terrible with directions but I know which was is left and which way is right. I also no how to drive a boat. You don’t turn a boat like a car.

When you leave the Dermond it’s a fairly straight shot to get the damn.

When using a map with GIS in a murder case you would want everything on one board.

The yellow X is to the left.

The only way it’s grey is it your not looking at it in color.

The only thing to the right is land. No idea why the body is such a touchy subject and Dancin once again I’m just relaying what I found. If you think SS own crime board is wrong I’m afraid you’ll need to take that up with him.

I didn’t draw it, sorry.

Same here, like spitting in the wind lol yes i see a gray x outside of their cove

I'm done, yo already said you are terrible with directions so that proves my point i guess

 

[TJtennispro]

@dancinunderthemoon here is the google maps link you provided yesterday. This is way most people I know would use a boat to get from the house to the dam.

If you’ve got s better route then I’ll hear you out but it’s fairly apparent the reason they drew the map the way they did when you take into effect the GIS 1 to 4,000

Same here, like spitting in the wind lol yes i see a gray x outside of their cove

I'm done, yo already said you are terrible with directions so that proves my point i guess

 

[kirkassoc]

The Dermonds' Rolex watches weren't stolen, but this doesn't mean they didn't die from a robbery attempt. Rolexes have a serial number that's easily tracked back to the purchaser. Pawn shops have surveillance cameras and require IDs. These items would be easily tracked back to the killer and therefore, weren't worth taking.

Has it been revealed if the Dermond's home had a wall or floor-hidden safe that could have attracted construction or maintenance workers who knew about it?

Is it known if the Dermonds recently divested of gold bars, rare coins, or other liquid assets? Many years ago, my elderly neighbors were held at gunpoint by two men and robbed of the gold and rare coins they stupidly stored in their home.
Here's Why You Shouldn't Store Precious Metals Yourself (Hint: It's More Than The Risk Of Theft)

The only drawback to a robbery was that nothing, absolutely nothing, was out of place. If they looked in every nook and cranny, they sure were neat about it. I believe I read that SS questioned all of the children to see if there was anything missing, and they noticed nothing missing...not even SDs purse. If the murderers came there looking for a hidden safe or something of GREAT value, they didn't search very hard. But, of course, that might be why they separated the D's. Threatening one with the life of the other for some unknown treasure?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Google Maps

running down a rabbit hole

on the above map between the yellow tab and the red one is where I saw the gray x.......attached image....... from the website that was discussed

and if you follow the river right out of their cove it goes down river, where it says lake Oconee on this map is the last bend, approx 5 miles from the Dermonds home

in this proximity in some trees is where she was found and where she was dropped

Engineers have stated her body wouldnt float up river or move more than 30 ft

THe water in Oconee feeds lake sinclair, the water is going out.......as far as Im aware it's not coming in

Lake SInclair has it's own dam where they drop water out in baldwin county into the Oconee River

And, I will add this:

"Weighed down by a pair of 30-pound concrete blocks, her corpse bloated and surfaced facedown in 46 feet of water. By boat, the spot lies some five miles from her home, in a wide bend above the Wallace Dam."

New details as mystery reigns in year-old Dermond lake murders

 

[fred&edna]

I have no idea where the wide bend above the Wallace Dam might be. I don't even know why I'm posting links about it. Actually, I don't know how discussing/arguing the exactness is beneficial.

 

[fred&edna]

I was able to zoom in on the Wallace Dam map on the link below... Finally figured out where the damn dam is in comparison to the D's home! I don't have a point to argue... I'm just happy I found this.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw26DVzlbHiRz0nQI9YnKRQt

 

[watcher9]

I have no idea where the wide bend above the Wallace Dam might be. I don't even know why I'm posting links about it. Actually, I don't know how discussing/arguing the exactness is beneficial.

All of these little maps showing this part and that part are hard to decipher and confusing to get the whole picture. I was confused for a few years thinking the dam was upriver from the D's house. A few years ago someone posted a map showing the whole area and the dam as being to the south or downriver from their home. Later I have learned that MrsD was found more to the eastside of the river instead of the western side as I had thought.

This posted map makes it confusing because the black line drawn is going upstream towards a bridge and not the way to the dam.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/c7f6cb76-544d-4c19-9ac0-8538809d1e6b-jpeg.188404/

If someone who knows how to draw a diagram or on one map highlighting and identifying the house, the wide bend, the body location, the dam and the landing where we suspect the boat was launched from, I think it would be a lot more clearer to those of us who have never been to Lake Oconee.

 

[deugirtni]

I have no idea where the wide bend above the Wallace Dam might be. I don't even know why I'm posting links about it. Actually, I don't know how discussing/arguing the exactness is beneficial.

It has been of great interest to me, because first, I wanted to visually wrap my head around SS saying it wasn't possible for SD's body to have been 'dumped' by any other means than boat, based on the location where she was found, because that location was not accessible by land; and further, SS said that where she was discovered, could not have been very far from where she was 'dumped' - which he reportedly backed up with professional opinions of experts in that field in regard to this particular water body.

Secondly, SS's statements regarding where she was discovered seemed contradictory many times, such as 'she was found in the deepest part of the lake', or she was found in 60', or 50', or 47' of water (he changed it often), but yet she was also caught on tree branches, which likely aren't located in the deepest parts; and then also taking into consideration that she was found not on the Putnam County side of the waterway; and then what the fisherman said during his 911 phonecall when he discovered what he believed to be a body - it also didn't seem to jive with what SS was saying about the deepest part, etc. It all should have meshed into one location, but it wasn't seeming to do that (imho).

I find it a pertinent piece of info to know, because it is a huge thing if that body HAD to have been dropped in the lake by boat. To me, that substantially narrows down the list of possibilities as to who the murderer(s) could have been.

Surely someone inexperienced in that particular lake (due to its shallow vs deep areas, rock areas, and trees sticking out of the water all over the place), and/or someone inexperienced with operating a boat at all, would NOT have chosen a spot in *that* lake, which could *only* be accessed by boat. The person(s) would have risked his/their motor getting severely damaged, and possibly the boat too (which could have potentially helped to get him/them caught if they came home with boat damages(?), and considering the lengths he/they went to, to hide evidence of him/themselves, it wouldn't make sense). And an inexperienced boat operator may have found him/herself in a lot of trouble if something had happened with the boat due to their inexperience - and can you imagine lugging a dead body in the middle of the night and having to call for help?? D)

But yet SS also believes the murderer is NOT a local.. so how (and when) did the murderer(s) become familiar enough with *this* lake full of obstacles and points and juts and rocks and fingers and TREES, enough to risk driving a dead body some 5-6 miles from the D home, likely in the dark, and keeping in mind how sound very much travels on/near the water?

 

[fred&edna]

It has been of great interest to me, because first, I wanted to visually wrap my head around SS saying it wasn't possible for SD's body to have been 'dumped' by any other means than boat, based on the location where she was found, because that location was not accessible by land; and further, SS said that where she was discovered, could not have been very far from where she was 'dumped' - which he reportedly backed up with professional opinions of experts in that field in regard to this particular water body.

Secondly, SS's statements regarding where she was discovered seemed contradictory many times, such as 'she was found in the deepest part of the lake', or she was found in 60', or 50', or 47' of water (he changed it often), but yet she was also caught on tree branches, which likely aren't located in the deepest parts; and then also taking into consideration that she was found not on the Putnam County side of the waterway; and then what the fisherman said during his 911 phonecall when he discovered what he believed to be a body - it also didn't seem to jive with what SS was saying about the deepest part, etc. It all should have meshed into one location, but it wasn't seeming to do that (imho).

I find it a pertinent piece of info to know, because it is a huge thing if that body HAD to have been dropped in the lake by boat. To me, that substantially narrows down the list of possibilities as to who the murderer(s) could have been.

Surely someone inexperienced in that particular lake (due to its shallow vs deep areas, rock areas, and trees sticking out of the water all over the place), and/or someone inexperienced with operating a boat at all, would NOT have chosen a spot in *that* lake, which could *only* be accessed by boat. The person(s) would have risked his/their motor getting severely damaged, and possibly the boat too (which could have potentially helped to get him/them caught if they came home with boat damages(?), and considering the lengths he/they went to, to hide evidence of him/themselves, it wouldn't make sense). And an inexperienced boat operator may have found him/herself in a lot of trouble if something had happened with the boat due to their inexperience - and can you imagine lugging a dead body in the middle of the night and having to call for help?? D)

But yet SS also believes the murderer is NOT a local.. so how (and when) did the murderer(s) become familiar enough with *this* lake full of obstacles and points and juts and rocks and fingers and TREES, enough to risk driving a dead body some 5-6 miles from the D home, likely in the dark, and keeping in mind how sound very much travels on/near the water?

Thank you for your points. I'm considering them !

I thought it had been established that SD's body had to have been dumped by boat. No?

While the killers may not have been local, it doesn't mean they were unfamiliar with the lake, boating, fishing... which would each likely include knowledge of water depths or at least know where to find that info.

I just know the map on the GA power site helped me see a much clearer picture of the river including the dam... And I was able to combine that with Google maps (147 Carolyn Dr) to understand the direction from the D's home to the dam.

 

[TJtennispro]

You correct I’m not sure exactly why @dancinunderthemoon threw in a map that had two coordinates that look similar but aren’t. I guess that’s why GIS is important.

Rock Island is the island to the right of black mark. Wallace Dam does two things. It feeds Sinclair and generates water back into the lake. The boat ramp we’ve discussed is down near the dam. When looking at the map it’s on the left.

All of these little maps showing this part and that part are hard to decipher and confusing to get the whole picture. I was confused for a few years thinking the dam was upriver from the D's house. A few years ago someone posted a map showing the whole area and the dam as being to the south or downriver from their home. Later I have learned that MrsD was found more to the eastside of the river instead of the western side as I had thought.

This posted map makes it confusing because the black line drawn is going upstream towards a bridge and not the way to the dam.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/c7f6cb76-544d-4c19-9ac0-8538809d1e6b-jpeg.188404/

If someone who knows how to draw a diagram or on one map highlighting and identifying the house, the wide bend, the body location, the dam and the landing where we suspect the boat was launched from, I think it would be a lot more clearer to those of us who have never been to Lake Oconee.

 

[TJtennispro]

Sometimes I think someone is trying to divert things just my opinion.

 

[deugirtni]

Do what? The google map link you posted clearly has you going left to wind up at the Wallace Dam. I’m glad you posted that because it helped prove my point. The map is at a GIS of 1 to 4,000. GIS stands for Geographic Information System.

The yellow X is to the left of the house. The Dam is to the left. I’ll post a link about GIS for reading pleasure.
....
https://www.igic.org/resources/standards/map-scale-accuracy/

I am terrible with directions but I know which was is left and which way is right. I also no how to drive a boat. You don’t turn a boat like a car.

When you leave the Dermond it’s a fairly straight shot to get the damn.
....
The only thing to the right is land. ....

@dancinunderthemoon here is the google maps link you provided yesterday. This is way most people I know would use a boat to get from the house to the dam.

If you’ve got s better route then I’ll hear you out but it’s fairly apparent the reason they drew the map the way they did when you take into effect the GIS 1 to 4,000

.... This posted map makes it confusing because the black line drawn is going upstream towards a bridge and not the way to the dam.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/c7f6cb76-544d-4c19-9ac0-8538809d1e6b-jpeg.188404/

If someone who knows how to draw a diagram or on one map highlighting and identifying the house, the wide bend, the body location, the dam and the landing where we suspect the boat was launched from, I think it would be a lot more clearer to those of us who have never been to Lake Oconee.

No offence TP, I am pretty geographically-challenged or directionally-challenged myself... but it seems to me that your map showing the route from 147 Carolyn to the spot where SD was found, which you attached with the black line, is in precisely the wrong direction, and in the opposite direction of the dam. From the Ds' house looking out from their property to the lake, once out of the cove, one would need to turn 'right' to get closer to the dam, wouldn't they? Here is a googlemap showing 147 Carolyn, in relation to where your directions lead to (nearing Hwy#44), and in the exact opposite direction to the dam.

Google Maps

 

[deugirtni]

Thank you for your points. I'm considering them !

I thought it had been established that SD's body had to have been dumped by boat. No?

While the killers may not have been local, it doesn't mean they were unfamiliar with the lake, boating, fishing... which would each likely include knowledge of water depths or at least know where to find that info.

I just know the map on the GA power site helped me see a much clearer picture of the river including the dam... And I was able to combine that with Google maps (147 Carolyn Dr) to understand the direction from the D's home to the dam.

Yes, that is what I am saying.. according to SS, it *is* established that SD's body *had* to have been dumped by boat.. and according to SS, she was found in the the deepest part of the lake, but she was also found tangled up in tree branches (which opposes the notion of being in the deepest part, if I'm not mistaken). I was very interested to see exactly where SD was discovered, to see why it was not accessible by land, because the boat aspect of this whole thing really throws one for a loop (imho).

And sure the killers could have known how to find depths and such in regard to Lake Oconee, but.. the motor getting caught up in the trees in that lake.. presumably at night in the darkness.. imho, someone would have to be VERY intimately familiar with this lake to take such a risk of transporting a dead body through all of the obstacles in this particular lake.. so in my mind, it really narrows the suspect list. I am thinking of perhaps 5 people who come immediately to mind. jmo.

 

[FinePrint]

Here is the route from the Dermonds to where SD was found "to the left of Rock Island. Please read the 911 transcript from the fisherman that gives the exact location of where her body was found. It is not near the dam but approx 2 miles north of the dam.

 

[FinePrint]

 

[FinePrint]

SS has stated over and over that SD was found approximately 5 to 6 miles from the Dermond home by water. The map I posted above has it mapped at approximately 5.65 miles from the Dermonds dock.

 

[deugirtni]

Here is the route from the Dermonds to where SD was found "to the left of Rock Island. Please read the 911 transcript of from the fisherman that gives the exact location of where her body was found. It is not near the dam but approx 2 miles north of the dam.
View attachment 188523

Oh thanks so much FP!! That is perfect.. shows ALL of the pertinent landmarks.. not such a straight-forward route at all, imho.. and then to consider all of the trees.. rocks.. juts of land.. in the dark.. wow.. that would have been the last place I would have been traveling to dump a body, let me tell you!

 

[deugirtni]

SS has stated over and over that SD was found approximately 5 to 6 miles from the Dermond home by water. The map I posted above has it mapped at approximately 5.65 miles from the Dermonds dock.

Fineprint are you able to determine from the map that shows all of the water depths all over Lake Oconee, how deep the water would have been right there at that spot?

Also, this spot would have been over on the Greene County side, as opposed to the Putnam County side, correct?