OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#49

[Cool Cats]

Women may almost never be serial killers, BUT if found guilty in the court of law, the Wagner’s still won’t be considered serial killers. Their accused actions fall in the “spree killer” category IMO.

Yes. I stand corrected on the serial killer label. You mention spree killer. Or as RAISIN posted, mass killing.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Yes. I stand corrected on the serial killer label. You mention spree killer. Or as RAISIN posted, mass killing.

I think they would fall into both categories. Mass killers, murder six or more people. And spree killers is pretty much self defined-they go on a killing spree. So mass spree killers? Is that a term? Or are they the first? (I’m doubtful they are). A spree killer kills two or more people in multiple locations in a short time. All jmho.

 

[Betty P]

I think they would fall into both categories. Mass killers, murder six or more people. And spree killers is pretty much self defined-they go on a killing spree. So mass spree killers? Is that a term? Or are they the first? (I’m doubtful they are). A spree killer kills two or more people in multiple locations in a short time. All jmho.

Recall, we discussed this some in the months after the murders. The Rhoden/Gilley family massacre doesn't fit neatly into any of those categories. Mass and spree killings are usually (not always) committed by people who have some kind of a "rage" event where their emotions overcome them and they go about killing people. Many often commit suicide later or are easily caught by LE. They're so impulsive they haven't thought out how the spree is going to end or just don't care.

These murders were planned well in advance and executed like a military operation, with plans for escape, destroying evidence and blending back into daily routines followed by alibis, strategic false tips to LE, extensive lying during LE interviews, etc.

The alleged killers, the Wagner family, fit into a unique category of "family annihilators".

 

[Betty P]

Hey CC just one question,if Angela wasn’t at the crime scene why is she charged the same as the rest of the 4 Wagners?

Because they have evidence of her buying some of this:
Specific shoes, brass catchers, supplies to build brass catchers and build silencers, bugging equipment and counter surveillance devices, and more.

They have her spying on the Rhodens/HG and sharing the layouts of their houses and where they slept. They have her hacking into their devices like Facebook and their phones.

They have her on wiretaps ( I assume) participating in revenge conversations against the Sheriff, Attorney General (now Governor) and the main BCI Agent on the case.

Angela had bad blood with Hanna and she had the M.M.O. Motive, Means and Opportunity, along with no alibi.

Angela was in on all the lies the Wagner's told, she and Jake were the most vocal of the 4 in the media. She was caught in a ton of lies, why lie? Because she was trying to hinder the investigation, cover for her family, Obstruct Justice, and I think to mislead the Agents by pointing them to the Manleys.

They have her not only forging custody documents, but she is listed as a guardian.

They have her participating and plotting from January through April 2016. She did not have to pull any triggers. She's still guilty of murder. She didn't have to rob the homes but she was part of the whole "sophisticated" plot and facilitated, plotted and schemed.

All just my opinion of why Angie would be charged even if she stayed home that night.

I thought that for a while, too, until I saw the discovery summary for her case. The references to video of the family shopping for women's boots, etc. JMO, that could only be relevant if there were similar boot prints at the crime scene. Unless everyone in the family bought the same women's boots and wore them that night.

And what about the mention of trail cam pictures in her Supplemental discovery? What about the Wagner game cams?
Foot standard and case prints? There are 65 photos in that evidence file. Where did they find her foot/boot prints? Why is Jake's truck search part of that discovery? A recovered 2-way radio? Was she outside as the lookout?

Angela Wagner

I do agree, she was very involved from the start with the custody doc forgeries, shopping for supplies, planning and especially with feeding LE bad information to frame others, helping with the cover up, etc.

It appears the discovery process is only now getting to the evidence files pertaining to weapons and ballistics. We've seen those references for both GW4 and JW so far. If we see some turn up for AW, we'll know for certain whether she pulled a trigger. JMO, even if she didn't, she was probably carrying a gun that night. The aggravated burglary charges imply she entered the crime scenes while brandishing a gun.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Why did the murders of the Rhodens/Gilley wait for Hanna to have her baby, they knew that the baby wasn’t a Wagner, do you sleuthers think some other business went south maybe, like other have said the Wagners wanted SW and the Rhodens stood up to (BadBilly)

 

[Cool Cats]

I thought that for a while, too, until I saw the discovery summary for her case. The references to video of the family shopping for women's boots, etc. JMO, that could only be relevant if there were similar boot prints at the crime scene. Unless everyone in the family bought the same women's boots and wore them that night.

And what about the mention of trail cam pictures in her Supplemental discovery? What about the Wagner game cams?
Foot standard and case prints? There are 65 photos in that evidence file. Where did they find her foot/boot prints? Why is Jake's truck search part of that discovery? A recovered 2-way radio? Was she outside as the lookout?

Angela Wagner

I do agree, she was very involved from the start with the custody doc forgeries, shopping for supplies, planning and especially with feeding LE bad information to frame others, helping with the cover up, etc.

It appears the discovery process is only now getting to the evidence files pertaining to weapons and ballistics. We've seen those references for both GW4 and JW so far. If we see some turn up for AW, we'll know for certain whether she pulled a trigger. JMO, even if she didn't, she was probably carrying a gun that night. The aggravated burglary charges imply she entered the crime scenes while brandishing a gun.

Yes. When analysing the evidence it does seem specific, as if yes, Angela was at the crime scenes with boot prints and dismantling security cameras, both her own counter surveillance and the Rhodens' security.

We are missing her original chunk of Discovery Evidence from December. We only have her Supplemental Discovery from March, why? Could that contain information on, as you say, the weapons/ballistics information that is tying her into the actual crimes scenes?

52 Havener is the home Angie inherited from her dad right? It's listed in the Discovery link you posted. Where she was arrested I assume.

The brick house.

 

[Yellowbeak]

Hello! I am new to this forum and I am very impressed with how professionally the information is presented and how respectful everyone is to others opinions. I was wondering if there has been much discussion on GW4 ‘s current wife and what she might of known. Also, I’m curious if his previous wife has ever stated feeling threatened by the Wagners during their divorce and custody issue.

 

[Cool Cats]

Why did the murders of the Rhodens/Gilley wait for Hanna to have her baby, they knew that the baby wasn’t a Wagner, do you sleuthers think some other business went south maybe, like other have said the Wagners wanted SW and the Rhodens stood up to (BadBilly)

They waited for the same reason they left Brently and Rudger alone, they had it in their plans to leave the toddler and 2 babies alone. Why? Out of compassion? Morals?
Or just because shooting a pregnant woman would bring way too much "heat" from LE and too much anger and and outrage from the public?

I think they were extremely shocked at how this case took a hold on social media. Angie actually inserted herself into some of the online conversations and I assume she was trying to mislead and steer posters away from her family. Posters stood up to her so she gave up.
Although it's possible she went anonymously onto certain sites.

Just my opinion.....

 

[Cool Cats]

Hello! I am new to this forum and I am very impressed with how professionally the information is presented and how respectful everyone is to others opinions. I was wondering if there has been much discussion on GW4 ‘s current wife and what she might of known. Also, I’m curious if his previous wife has ever stated feeling threatened by the Wagners during their divorce and custody issue.

GW 4 was only married once. His ex is an innocent bystander and not part of the Wagner investigation, so we don't discuss her, post her name, or post photos of her etc....out of respect for her privacy.

It is Court Record---so it is OK to mention---that his ex did file last October for more visitation, of which GW4 countered with a Court request that she have a mental health evaluation.

Wow. No words.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Cool Cat you have made statements that AW wasn’t at the crime scene, that she was the look out and never was in the houses also you said that she just guilty of dismantling surveillance cameras, how do you know all these things, you also know a lot about GW4 ex-wife, Are you family or Law Enforcement

 

[Cool Cats]

Cool Cat you have made statements that AW wasn’t at the crime scene, that she was the look out and never was in the houses also you said that she just guilty of dismantling surveillance cameras, how do you know all these things, you also know a lot about GW4 ex-wife, Are you family or Law Enforcement

I post "its my opinion" or "I think" or It's "my 2 Cents" if I don't have a link. I try to be careful about that.
I said I would need to see proof (her trial) that she was at the crime scenes and that maybe there is Discovery Evidence we haven't seen that would tie her to the crimes scenes through weapons and ballistics. There could also be blood evidence (Excursion vehicle) from the victims or DNA. So yes the prosecution might have the evidence that puts her at the crime scenes. Absolutely possible!

It is just my opinion that she stayed home with the kids, and my opinion that the men wouldn't need her help at the scenes, and my opinion that they wouldn't want her to see them shoot 8 people. Opinion, theory, debate, supposition, questions etc....Only.

The posters that have discussed this with me are quite sharp cookies, they are making me see--- through facts from other cases--- that yes, it really is possible that a earthy grandmother could have a whole other side to her.

It's been quite fascinating to read views different from mine. It is helping me to get a handle on this overwhelming Case. Helps me to be more open minded and entertain scenarios I never thought of before.

 

[Betty P]

Hello! I am new to this forum and I am very impressed with how professionally the information is presented and how respectful everyone is to others opinions. I was wondering if there has been much discussion on GW4 ‘s current wife and what she might of known. Also, I’m curious if his previous wife has ever stated feeling threatened by the Wagners during their divorce and custody issue.

Welcome, Yellowbeak! There hasn't been much in the news media about GW4's wives, so we can't discuss much here. There has been some mention in the news, IIRC, of GW4's previous divorce and custody issues. But if his wives haven't discussed their relationship with him in the news media or if it doesn't appear in legal docs related to the cases, we don't really know.

 

[Betty P]

Yes. When analysing the evidence it does seem specific, as if yes, Angela was at the crime scenes with boot prints and dismantling security cameras, both her own counter surveillance and the Rhodens' security.

We are missing her original chunk of Discovery Evidence from December. We only have her Supplemental Discovery from March, why? Could that contain information on, as you say, the weapons/ballistics information that is tying her into the actual crimes scenes?

52 Havener is the home Angie inherited from her dad right? It's listed in the Discovery link you posted. Where she was arrested I assume.

The brick house.

Yes, it would be interesting to see the first set of AW's discovery docs.

I'm guessing the discovery is just now moving to files with weapons and ammo evidence. I assume, but don't know, these most recent "tranches" of evidence are being sent to all the 4 defendants and the timing depends on how quickly the defense attorneys get the right hard drives to AC for downloading. It will be interesting to see if there's anything for AW in those files.

I'm still on the fence about whether she actually did any shooting, but it sure seems like she was there at the crime scenes that night. The footprints could have been found outside the crime scenes, if she was the "look out". She may have been the driver, too. As the killers moved from one crime scene to another, they probably needed to reload weapons or do other things to prepare. Ugh.

But for now, the aggravated burglary and aggravated murder charges indicate she was somewhere at the crime scenes and that she brandished a weapon. Prosecutors have weapons specifications for all 8 murders and for all 4 crime scenes. She also has the charge of Unlawful Possession of Dangerous Ordnance, which applies to a silencer.

One thing I'm still confused about: The DeWine - Reader press conference at the time of the arrests indicated they found parts for the silencer. If all of them had silencers on their weapons that night, did they find parts for all of them? If not, what happened to the other silencers? Or maybe not all of them had silencers?

Homemade silencer last piece of evidence in Pike County murder case

"They left traces, they left a trail. The parts to build a silencer, the forged documents, the cameras, cellphones, all that they tampered with. And the lies, all the lies they told us.”

Her next pre-trial is scheduled for July 3, so we may see more discovery then.

BTW, if I ever decided to write a book about this crime, I'd title it "And All The Lies They Told Us".

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Your post reminds me of a continuing refrain:
When neighbors, family, co-workers etc..are interviewed after the desolation when the perpetrator is arrested, they often say they can't believe it! He/she was so nice, seemed quiet and normal. They just can't believe the rapist, killer, robber, would do something like that!

BBM

But you have not seen anyone interviewed who has said that about Angie. No friends, family, ect has came forth and said they didn't believe Angie would do that. Not even Fred or the pastor said Angie wouldn't do that. Fred said Billy and Jake wouldn't. The pastor said he believed what they told him about it (we have no idea what they told him since he didn't elaborate but we can surmise they told him they were innocent). He said they attended church there, but he never said Angie wouldn't do that. Even her own family has not came forward to say they did not believe she would do that. Think on that a bit.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I post "its my opinion" or "I think" or It's "my 2 Cents" if I don't have a link. I try to be careful about that.
I said I would need to see proof (her trial) that she was at the crime scenes and that maybe there is Discovery Evidence we haven't seen that would tie her to the crimes scenes through weapons and ballistics. There could also be blood evidence (Excursion vehicle) from the victims or DNA. So yes the prosecution might have the evidence that puts her at the crime scenes. Absolutely possible!

It is just my opinion that she stayed home with the kids, and my opinion that the men wouldn't need her help at the scenes, and my opinion that they wouldn't want her to see them shoot 8 people. Opinion, theory, debate, supposition, questions etc....Only.

The posters that have discussed this with me are quite sharp cookies, they are making me see--- through facts from other cases--- that yes, it really is possible that a earthy grandmother could have a whole other side to her.

It's been quite fascinating to read views different from mine. It is helping me to get a handle on this overwhelming Case. Helps me to be more open minded and entertain scenarios I never thought of before.

BBM

It is just my opinion that she stayed home with the kids, and my opinion that the men wouldn't need her help at the scenes, and my opinion that they wouldn't want her to see them shoot 8 people.

Is it possible that you may be projecting the men in your own life onto the W men? The men in your own life may be kind, protective of you, and would never want you to think bad about them by letting you see them do something like that. That is the way the men in my life are (hubby, son, grandsons, brothers ect).

But we don't know the W men. We don't know if they were these big strong men who protected the little woman. On the other hand we don't know if Billy was a hen-pecked husband or if Jake and George were brow beaten sons.

But here is one thing we do know for a fact, she has sat in jail for 7 months and not one of those three men have stepped forward to take the fall for Angie, not one of them, not even her own husband, has stepped forward to say that Angie wasn't there, that she had no part in it.

To me, that speaks volumes.

ETA: On the other hand Jake and George have sat in jail for 7 months and have you seen this sweet faced, motherly woman step forward and take the fall for her own sons, saying they weren't there, it was all her? Some mother huh?
JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

BBM

It is just my opinion that she stayed home with the kids, and my opinion that the men wouldn't need her help at the scenes, and my opinion that they wouldn't want her to see them shoot 8 people.

Is it possible that you may be projecting the men in your own life onto the W men? The men in your own life may be kind, protective of you, and would never want you to think bad about them by letting you see them do something like that. That is the way the men in my life are (hubby, son, grandsons, brothers ect).

But we don't know the W men. We don't know if they were these big strong men who protected the little woman. On the other hand we don't know if Billy was a hen-pecked husband or if Jake and George were brow beaten sons.

But here is one thing we do know for a fact, she has sat in jail for 7 months and not one of those three men have stepped forward to take the fall for Angie, not one of them, not even her own husband, has stepped forward to say that Angie wasn't there, that she had no part in it.

To me, that speaks volumes.

ETA: On the other hand Jake and George have sat in jail for 7 months and have you seen this sweet faced, motherly woman step forward and take the fall for her own sons, saying they weren't there, it was all her? Some mother huh?
JMO

I would love to know if FW has put money on AW jail book to buy snacks with

 

[Berrybell]

BBM

It is just my opinion that she stayed home with the kids, and my opinion that the men wouldn't need her help at the scenes, and my opinion that they wouldn't want her to see them shoot 8 people.

Is it possible that you may be projecting the men in your own life onto the W men? The men in your own life may be kind, protective of you, and would never want you to think bad about them by letting you see them do something like that. That is the way the men in my life are (hubby, son, grandsons, brothers ect).

But we don't know the W men. We don't know if they were these big strong men who protected the little woman. On the other hand we don't know if Billy was a hen-pecked husband or if Jake and George were brow beaten sons.

But here is one thing we do know for a fact, she has sat in jail for 7 months and not one of those three men have stepped forward to take the fall for Angie, not one of them, not even her own husband, has stepped forward to say that Angie wasn't there, that she had no part in it.

To me, that speaks volumes.

ETA: On the other hand Jake and George have sat in jail for 7 months and have you seen this sweet faced, motherly woman step forward and take the fall for her own sons, saying they weren't there, it was all her? Some mother huh?
JMO

MOO Angie was an active participant the nights of the murders and was present. I know we don't have proof of a criminal past where she is concerned but when they planned the murders her mother Rita willing committed the crime of forgery for them, to me that speaks of a long history of criminal behavior. At one time I saw pictures of the inside of their Ohio home (the red two story house) the main décor was dead animal heads on every wall. This is not a woman who is intimidated at the sight of blood and gore.

 

[Puzzles8]

Yes, it would be interesting to see the first set of AW's discovery docs.

I'm guessing the discovery is just now moving to files with weapons and ammo evidence. I assume, but don't know, these most recent "tranches" of evidence are being sent to all the 4 defendants and the timing depends on how quickly the defense attorneys get the right hard drives to AC for downloading. It will be interesting to see if there's anything for AW in those files.

I'm still on the fence about whether she actually did any shooting, but it sure seems like she was there at the crime scenes that night. The footprints could have been found outside the crime scenes, if she was the "look out". She may have been the driver, too. As the killers moved from one crime scene to another, they probably needed to reload weapons or do other things to prepare. Ugh.

But for now, the aggravated burglary and aggravated murder charges indicate she was somewhere at the crime scenes and that she brandished a weapon. Prosecutors have weapons specifications for all 8 murders and for all 4 crime scenes. She also has the charge of Unlawful Possession of Dangerous Ordnance, which applies to a silencer.

One thing I'm still confused about: The DeWine - Reader press conference at the time of the arrests indicated they found parts for the silencer. If all of them had silencers on their weapons that night, did they find parts for all of them? If not, what happened to the other silencers? Or maybe not all of them had silencers?

Homemade silencer last piece of evidence in Pike County murder case



Her next pre-trial is scheduled for July 3, so we may see more discovery then.

BTW, if I ever decided to write a book about this crime, I'd title it "And All The Lies They Told Us".

Title is perfect!
And Betty, I would like an autographed copy.

 

[Cool Cats]

BBM

But you have not seen anyone interviewed who has said that about Angie. No friends, family, ect has came forth and said they didn't believe Angie would do that. Not even Fred or the pastor said Angie wouldn't do that. Fred said Billy and Jake wouldn't. The pastor said he believed what they told him about it (we have no idea what they told him since he didn't elaborate but we can surmise they told him they were innocent). He said they attended church there, but he never said Angie wouldn't do that. Even her own family has not came forward to say they did not believe she would do that. Think on that a bit.

JMO

BBM

It is just my opinion that she stayed home with the kids, and my opinion that the men wouldn't need her help at the scenes, and my opinion that they wouldn't want her to see them shoot 8 people.

Is it possible that you may be projecting the men in your own life onto the W men? The men in your own life may be kind, protective of you, and would never want you to think bad about them by letting you see them do something like that. That is the way the men in my life are (hubby, son, grandsons, brothers ect).

But we don't know the W men. We don't know if they were these big strong men who protected the little woman. On the other hand we don't know if Billy was a hen-pecked husband or if Jake and George were brow beaten sons.

But here is one thing we do know for a fact, she has sat in jail for 7 months and not one of those three men have stepped forward to take the fall for Angie, not one of them, not even her own husband, has stepped forward to say that Angie wasn't there, that she had no part in it.

To me, that speaks volumes.

ETA: On the other hand Jake and George have sat in jail for 7 months and have you seen this sweet faced, motherly woman step forward and take the fall for her own sons, saying they weren't there, it was all her? Some mother huh?
JMO

Well that's a lot to think about. I actually did post about how no one was standing up for any of the 6 arrested. In my opinion it isn't very normal that not even one person comes forward and gets quoted:

........"Wow I can't believe Angie would do this, she's the last person to do this, she was such a nice friend/neighbor/co-worker I'm totally shocked, I hope they find her innocent so she can get back to her grandkids and law abiding life." Or:
...... "Angie is getting blamed for what her husband and sons did, she would never go along with something like that. She wouldn't hurt a flea "........

The only thing said was that they "wept over dogs". Yah, and the dogs were left alive! The pastor never said they wept over people!

Well we haven't even heard one quote like this have we?

As for the men in my life wanting to protect me. The men in my life would never even let me know if they were going to do something evil. They wouldn't want me involved or to know for many reasons. Plus I would never allow it.

Why do I think the Wagner men could do this but It's hard for me to understand that Angie would sanction 8 murders and participate? Because I would never let murders happen. What makes Angie so different from me? I have a husband and 2 sons near the same ages as her sons. What makes one woman value life and another just throw it away?

Why was that her solution when there are a dozen more?

.......My 2 Cents ONLY.......opinion etc.......

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes, it would be interesting to see the first set of AW's discovery docs.

I'm guessing the discovery is just now moving to files with weapons and ammo evidence. I assume, but don't know, these most recent "tranches" of evidence are being sent to all the 4 defendants and the timing depends on how quickly the defense attorneys get the right hard drives to AC for downloading. It will be interesting to see if there's anything for AW in those files.

I'm still on the fence about whether she actually did any shooting, but it sure seems like she was there at the crime scenes that night. The footprints could have been found outside the crime scenes, if she was the "look out". She may have been the driver, too. As the killers moved from one crime scene to another, they probably needed to reload weapons or do other things to prepare. Ugh.

But for now, the aggravated burglary and aggravated murder charges indicate she was somewhere at the crime scenes and that she brandished a weapon. Prosecutors have weapons specifications for all 8 murders and for all 4 crime scenes. She also has the charge of Unlawful Possession of Dangerous Ordnance, which applies to a silencer.

One thing I'm still confused about: The DeWine - Reader press conference at the time of the arrests indicated they found parts for the silencer. If all of them had silencers on their weapons that night, did they find parts for all of them? If not, what happened to the other silencers? Or maybe not all of them had silencers?

Homemade silencer last piece of evidence in Pike County murder case



Her next pre-trial is scheduled for July 3, so we may see more discovery then.

BTW, if I ever decided to write a book about this crime, I'd title it "And All The Lies They Told Us".

Excellent name for a book. After reading many posts I am beginning to think that maybe she did have to be at the crime scenes, and there is evidence, for her to be charged with aggravated burglary.

I understand she can be charged for aggravated murder without being there, but aggravated burglary may be different....?....... Only my opinions ........