Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #107

[rosesfromangels]

A few things on the thread have stood out for me this week, things that members have either convinced me of or have thought afresh. (I do find that even with many different , and often opposing, ideas, all the posters on this thread are fabulous.)

1. With a lower age range for the Perp, the groups of 'kids'/ young adults that KG and others attest to being on or around the trail ( at least on dropoff) come into valid consideration. Moo

2. The witness who we believe is the source of ' seeing something that they felt needed reporting' and thus the YSG, may infact have 'seen something .......' away from the trails. Maybe in Delphi. Or on the roads. Or in another Town even etc.... moo

3. There may well be an 'underbelly' of local society, away from the good burghers of Carrol County, that are outside of the usual eyes. Maybe still a notable local, but notable in an infamous ,rather than famous ,way? Moo

4. BG may have been 1 of 2. Moo

5. BG may have dressed deliberately like someone known to frequent the trails/woodland area. (Not RL) .Moo
Ty for humouring me.

Oh, ps...I dont like the storage warehouse theories! ( Runs away really quickly and hides behind a hatstand)..... definite big moomoo

1. Yes, my amateur profile is that the Perp was between 16-19 when the crime occurred
2. Absolutely. Noticeable scratches on face or something like that
3. Agree. There seemed to be a fair amount of unsavory activity in Delphi for such a small community
4. Agree - I think the sketches may be a duo; maybe even father/son
5. The locals would have to comment on this. However, he was dressed far too war for that day?

Re: the storage facility - It makes sense to me, or something similar. He had to take them somewhere so that their voices wouldn't carry

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

I sure do remember that. When the local news shows a clip of a robber, it’s pretty quick on finding someone with identification. Clearly surveillance cameras capture better image quality than a cell phone held (not sure how many feet away, but too many). Can’t believe we are still here two years and some months still wondering.


I am so confused by the two sketches. In the April presser, Carter said the first released sketch of the middle aged male with a newsboy cap was to be viewed as secondary to the new sketch. Later, I think it was written up in one of the follow up clarification videos/articles by one of the tv news stations, it was clarified to discard the first sketch and the second sketch of the younger looking guy is the one to focus and outright is BG (!)

The last clarification from Carter is BG might look somewhere between both the first released sketch and the second released sketch. It’s so confusing, I even hear experienced podcasters missing the beat along the timeline of the sketches.

Not sure any of that really matters, unless the sketches matter.

Also, it’s important to note, the younger looking sketch was conducted very shortly after the crime, and wasn’t something new that popped up (I know most of you here know that, but it it’s interesting to listen to podcasts where that doesn’t seem to be fully understood). The young guy sketch was not thought two years ago to be worth the time to share publicly, but is now.

That has to figure in the change of direction.

BBM

Wasnt there also a 'tightening'/clarification of the age range to 20s to late 30s? Moo (dont want to be more precise as cant recall exact figures used. Multi-Agency Taskforce Clarifies Points about the Delphi Murder Suspect Sketches ·

ETA link

 

[rosesfromangels]

Quoted bbm
"We also believe this person is from Delphi. Currently or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis or works here"
JMO

Respectfully snipped for focus. Here are the top ten employers in Carroll County:

Major Employers: Hoosiers by the Numbers

 

[bradfordsleuth]

If theyre so factually certain the perp is from Delphi, then they must know who the perp actually is imo?

What possible evidence could there be for saying we know hes from Delphi but dont actually know who it is?

It makes no sense imo

Just a few thoughts....could the killer have rented a car with fake ID then returned it by a certain time?

It would somewhat validate LE's statement about him getting around quickly if they knew what time it was rented and then returned.

Maybe that's why the 2nd sketch cropped up a few days later....the car rental place discovered some 'fraud' and felt it needed to be reported.

It may never have been tied to the girls murders at the time...but then when LE went back looking at tips a again and again, this sketch suddenly became a 'red flag' and a 'holy crap' moment because something ties this car and the suspect near the trail that day.

Somehow, they are now certain this is the right suspect. I have no doubt whatsoever about that.

They need whomever dropped him off at the car rental place to place him there? That 'one tip away' that they need?

I have absolutely no idea if there's a car rental place in Delphi, or if there is one if it has any cameras.

I also realize that this theory is 'out there' but thought I would throw it out there and see what others thoughts about it be.

I hope so hard every single day that someone grows a conscience and comes forward.

How the heck do 'they' (I am including a possible alibi) sleep at night knowing how devastated the families and community are and knowing they have robbed Abby and Libby of bright futures?

JMO and thinking out loud again
Edited for clarity

 

[Jabarn]

BBM

Wasnt there also a 'tightening'/clarification of the age range to 20s to late 30s? Moo (dont want to be more precise as cant recall exact figures used. Multi-Agency Taskforce Clarifies Points about the Delphi Murder Suspect Sketches ·

ETA link

Indiana State Police clarified Wednesday that the two different sketches released in the Delphi double murder investigation are of two people and the man depicted in the first sketch is no longer considered a person of interest in the case.

Police say the sketch released on Monday is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on one of the girl’s cell phones as he was walking on a bridge. He’s described as having a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20s to late 30s.

Indiana State Police clarify why they released new sketch in Delphi investigation

Carter said the suspect is between the ages of 18 and 40 and may look younger than his true age.

‘We also believe this person is from Delphi’: Police release new sketch, additional information in Delphi murder investigation

Interview with Superintendent Carter:

ISP superintendent provides update on Delphi double murder investigation

State Police Superintendent Doug Carter said during a news conference in the girls' northern Indiana hometown of Delphi that investigators believe the man is between the ages of 18 and 40 and either lives or lived in Delphi or works in the area.

Police release new sketch, video of suspect in Delphi murders

 

[Yellow Rose]

I’m not here every day physically but my thoughts go to Libby and Abby frequently each day and I constantly pray that TODAY is the day that justice begins for them.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Respectfully snipped for focus. Here are the top ten employers in Carroll County:

Major Employers: Hoosiers by the Numbers

Thank you! Its so helpful to see this!

I am c & p them below.

1. Indiana Packers Corp (Delphi )
2. Pssi (Delphi )
3. Delphi Community Elementary (Delphi )
4. Delphi Community Middle School (Delphi )
5. St Elizabeth Health Care Ctr (Delphi )
6. Carroll Consolidated Sch Corp (Flora )
7. Mc Donald's (Delphi )
8. Delphi Middle School (Delphi )
9. Zinn Kitchens Inc (Bringhurst )
10. Dq Grill & Chill (Delphi )

JMO

 

[Jabarn]

Thank you! Its so helpful to see this!

I am c & p them below.

1. Indiana Packers Corp (Delphi )
2. Pssi (Delphi )
3. Delphi Community Elementary (Delphi )
4. Delphi Community Middle School (Delphi )
5. St Elizabeth Health Care Ctr (Delphi )
6. Carroll Consolidated Sch Corp (Flora )
7. Mc Donald's (Delphi )
8. Delphi Middle School (Delphi )
9. Zinn Kitchens Inc (Bringhurst )
10. Dq Grill & Chill (Delphi )

JMO

Well, that’s a short list. Not sure BG had a job, but some of these places might consider a person who showed up for one day and never showed up again (thinking Jake Patterson).

 

[rosesfromangels]

Thank you! Its so helpful to see this!

I am c & p them below.

1. Indiana Packers Corp (Delphi )
2. Pssi (Delphi )
3. Delphi Community Elementary (Delphi )
4. Delphi Community Middle School (Delphi )
5. St Elizabeth Health Care Ctr (Delphi )
6. Carroll Consolidated Sch Corp (Flora )
7. Mc Donald's (Delphi )
8. Delphi Middle School (Delphi )
9. Zinn Kitchens Inc (Bringhurst )
10. Dq Grill & Chill (Delphi )

JMO

Shall we run with this a bit? The Packers plant is a no brainer to look at, but out of this list PSSI also looks extremely interesting as well. Food sanitation has some interesting implications as it relates to keeping the crime scene sterile.
Very intriguing.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[k-mac]

They must have that info now as they are no longer asking about the vehicle.



They have said the first sketch is not BG. I don't think he has been discounted as such - he was seen on the trails by several witnesses who contributed. The new sketch guy was also seen by witnesses and is BG. He must have been seen on the trails, as only Libby caught him on camera on the bridge.

is there verified confirmation from anywhere that the first released sketch of the older looking guy was from a witness ?

imo the first sketch (older looking) looks like a guess work from the police from the video footage as to what he may have looked like.

the second sketch released of the younger guy imo is the witness account.

so ultimately my speculation is the original released older guy sketch is a fictional guess from the video footage.

which is why the second younger sketch drawn only days later (witness description)was likely discounted because it seemed so radically different from the video images.

moo

 

[Jabarn]

Shall we run with this a bit? The Packers plant is a no brainer to look at, but out of this list PSSI also looks extremely interesting as well. Food sanitation has some interesting implications as it relates to keeping the crime scene sterile.
Very intriguing.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I guess the DQ is interesting, too, since KG worked at one. Not sure any of these work places have relevance, but you never know. Just looking for connections.

If the thinking is BG has local ties, it’s important to understand how and why he does.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Shall we run with this a bit? The Packers plant is a no brainer to look at, but out of this list PSSI also looks extremely interesting as well. Food sanitation has some interesting implications as it relates to keeping the crime scene sterile.
Very intriguing.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Quoted bbm
Excellent direction to think in!

St. Elizabeth Health Care Centre has my interest too.
I believe it is a nursing home.
Could someone have been 'triggered' by a visit to a loved one that may have gone bad?

JMO

 

[TL4S]

A few things on the thread have stood out for me this week, things that members have either convinced me of or have thought afresh. (I do find that even with many different , and often opposing, ideas, all the posters on this thread are fabulous.)

1. With a lower age range for the Perp, the groups of 'kids'/ young adults that KG and others attest to being on or around the trail ( at least on dropoff) come into valid consideration. Moo

2. The witness who we believe is the source of ' seeing something that they felt needed reporting' and thus the YSG, may infact have 'seen something .......' away from the trails. Maybe in Delphi. Or on the roads. Or in another Town even etc.... moo

3. There may well be an 'underbelly' of local society, away from the good burghers of Carrol County, that are outside of the usual eyes. Maybe still a notable local, but notable in an infamous ,rather than famous ,way? Moo

4. BG may have been 1 of 2. Moo

5. BG may have dressed deliberately like someone known to frequent the trails/woodland area. (Not RL) .Moo



Ty for humouring me.



Oh, ps...I dont like the storage warehouse theories! ( Runs away really quickly and hides behind a hatstand)..... definite big moomoo

Yeah, my only thought about the storage warehouse is if the cameras could have caught him driving by. Otherwise, if he'd been a tenant, I think he'd be arrested already.

 

[raja]

is there verified confirmation from anywhere that the first released sketch of the older looking guy was from a witness ?

imo the first sketch (older looking) looks like a guess work from the police from the video footage as to what he may have looked like.

the second sketch released of the younger guy imo is the witness account.

so ultimately my speculation is the original released older guy sketch is a fictional guess from the video footage.

which is why the second younger sketch drawn only days later (witness description)was likely discounted because it seemed so radically different from the video images.

moo

I wish I could like this x 100. I think both sketches are BG. I laughed after the 4/7 PC when it was suggested that BG was in disguise in the video. I am not laughing so much anymore. I really believe BG attempted a disguise before his attack.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Well, that’s a short list. Not sure BG had a job, but some of these places might consider a person who showed up for one day and never showed up again (thinking Jake Patterson).

Good thinking!
Or maybe in town for a temporary job for that day only?

 

[Brubon]

1. Yes, my amateur profile is that the Perp was between 16-19 when the crime occurred
2. Absolutely. Noticeable scratches on face or something like that
3. Agree. There seemed to be a fair amount of unsavory activity in Delphi for such a small community
4. Agree - I think the sketches may be a duo; maybe even father/son
5. The locals would have to comment on this. However, he was dressed far too war for that day?

Re: the storage facility - It makes sense to me, or something similar. He had to take them somewhere so that their voices wouldn't carry

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Blueberry2720]

I wish I could like this x 100. I think both sketches are BG. I laughed after the 4/7 PC when it was suggested that BG was in disguise in the video. I am not laughing so much anymore. I really believe BG attempted a disguise before his attack.

I agree 100%. I just posted about this a page or 2 back.

 

[FinePrint]

Respectfully snipped for focus. Here are the top ten employers in Carroll County:

Major Employers: Hoosiers by the Numbers

And also the Subaru plant which I believe BPs son Cody worked at, at least at the time. But I guess that is in Lafayette

 

[rosesfromangels]

And also the Subaru plant which I believe BPs son Cody worked at, at least at the time. But I guess that is in Lafayette

All these connections and locations are important!

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Krwiley60]

The forensic classes COULD be simple coincidence...

But this also could tie into IMO LE saying the motive in the last press conference: that they know it's all about power with the perp...

A perp who plans to commit the perfect heinous crime - to elude LE, & the manner in which he eludes them (which only LE knows) - the manner of death (which only LE knows), whatever it is he did to the girls (didn't LE say something to the effect that Abby & Libby would not spend eternity as he left them...?? ODD)

Sounds like a perp who might be into forensics himself - not just some 'opportunity strikes' type

Regardless of the forensics classes - IMO I do take 'power' to be the perps motive as per LE & their PC....maybe that is NOT what LE meant...but it was a pretty darn specific statement

I’m sure he feels pretty empowered since he committed the almost perfect crime despite audio, video, witnesses and potentially no usable DNA and still hasn’t been caught. ( I think they have partial). I too believe the motive was power/thrill and maybe sexual. There doesn’t have to be a sexual assault for motive. I think he was there to kill that day and he chose them based on availability, vulnerability and desirability. I think this was an opportunistic kill, somewhat planned. I still don’t think he’s from Delphi.