Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #107

[susiQ]

@susiQ earlier on when I first joined this thread someone was talking about the Meth problems out here. I was perplexed and actually thought...how dare they say that, that simply isn’t so...

So I did some digging and in fact found their are pockets in this area with this problem...I was wrong!

So this takes me to the point that I’ve heard a few times that..it’s a small town and everyone knows everyone...not only is that untrue but not everyone knows all of the strange nefarious things that go one in their communities. This definitely includes me. Guess I’m to busy with work and my own small world.

I live just on the outskirts of my town where everyone has acreage. I only know the neighbors across the street and those on each side. Those that live within about 1/4 of a mile from my house I know only by their vehicles and a wave when they drive by.

@FinePrint Absolutely agree with you. I live in a town smaller than Delphi. Moved here almost 25 years ago but not a "native" of the town. I know a hand full of people, sort of My neighbours to the left, a couple of people across the street and that's about it other than some of the retailers we purchase from in town. I have no family here except my mother that lives with us. People tend to keep to themselves for the most part. I was pleasantly surprised when my new neighbour across the street (moved in last fall) came over yesterday and introduced herself while I was gardening. I don't imagine it's any different in Delphi unless you're involved with sports and clubs and then again, it's a limited number of people. So, if you're not into the drug scene, I wouldn't expect you'd know about it, but I do expect LE to know about it

 

[susiQ]

LE thought the first sketch was BG, but it was not. So, I'm not persuaded the second sketch is BG, just because they now say they think it is. What still interests me is that LE had this "new" sketch since shortly after the murders. I don't subscribe to a convoluted theory that someone intentionally deceived LE into rejecting the sketch for 2+ years. It was the only sketch they had for the first 5 months, yet they apparently didn't find it credible. I don't know why, but it could be because, maybe, the witness didn't place the person on the trails. The witness simply saw something that the witness thought should be reported. That doesn't sound too convincing to me.

Delphi murders: Investigators have had newly released suspect sketch for 2 years

But once LE cleared(?) the person depicted in the first sketch, with 2 years having gone by and new tips becoming rare, LE had to do something bold to generate interest and make something happen. Thus, the PC and the new strategy. The car (as if someone would remember after 2+ years) and the second sketch (despite LE having not considered it helpful before) were flung out there. Like throwing darts at a dartboard while blindfolded, hoping to get lucky. I'm not convinced that LE is convinced that either the car or sketch is going to matter. No one's talking about the car, and DC has hedged his bets about the accuracy of the new sketch. Sorry to say, I think LE has reached a dead end.

I do see where you're coming from, but I'm more inclined to think that they realized, for whatever reason, that they were not on the right track. I don't think they've hit a dead end quite yet, but they've lost precious time and likely evidence they would have had had they gone in the right direction in the first place. It's boggles my mind daily that after 42,000 plus tips, they don't have a POI. I realize that not all of those tips are good ones, probably far from it, but even if they got 420 good tips out of those they should have an idea of where to look, right? 42 maybe ?? I think they missed the good ones. Can you imagine going through all that a second time

 

[Krwiley60]

DBM

 

[susiQ]

I hope so hard every single day that someone grows a conscience and comes forward.

How the heck do 'they' (I am including a possible alibi) sleep at night knowing how devastated the families and community are and knowing they have robbed Abby and Libby of bright futures?

Edited for clarity

RSBBM
Sorry to say, but I honestly don't think anyone who does something like this has a conscience or loses a minute of sleep over it. BG's voice speaks volumes. Cool, calm and in control. Knew what he was going to do, did it, and slithered away unnoticed, IMO. I'm guessing the NBG sketch was initiated by the witness that saw something that needed to be reported shortly after the murders and it was not at the trails where she saw it. Which brings me to DC's comment about feeling as the investigation continues they may find they were onto something early on (paraphrased). Too bad they didn't follow that lead 2 plus years ago MOO

 

[susiQ]

Shall we run with this a bit? The Packers plant is a no brainer to look at, but out of this list PSSI also looks extremely interesting as well. Food sanitation has some interesting implications as it relates to keeping the crime scene sterile.
Very intriguing.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Yes, interesting indeed. I was reminded that some food processor use H2O2 for sanitizing equipment. So, I googled it and came across this:
A clean getaway
I had no idea oxy cleaners could do this.

 

[Boxer]

1. Yes, my amateur profile is that the Perp was between 16-19 when the crime occurred
2. Absolutely. Noticeable scratches on face or something like that
3. Agree. There seemed to be a fair amount of unsavory activity in Delphi for such a small community
4. Agree - I think the sketches may be a duo; maybe even father/son
5. The locals would have to comment on this. However, he was dressed far too war for that day?

Re: the storage facility - It makes sense to me, or something similar. He had to take them somewhere so that their voices wouldn't carry

Amateur opinion and speculation

One thing to consider about storage company is the 24/7 video surveillance.
I hope they had something pointed enough to 300 so that a walker back to CPS by the road would be seen.

 

[Boxer]

I do see where you're coming from, but I'm more inclined to think that they realized, for whatever reason, that they were not on the right track. I don't think they've hit a dead end quite yet, but they've lost precious time and likely evidence they would have had had they gone in the right direction in the first place. It's boggles my mind daily that after 42,000 plus tips, they don't have a POI. I realize that not all of those tips are good ones, probably far from it, but even if they got 420 good tips out of those they should have an idea of where to look, right? 42 maybe ?? I think they missed the good ones. Can you imagine going through all that a second time

Agree. And its probably just 1 right tip.
Just saying - wouldn't it be great if someone finally called in something along the line of:
Don't where this person was in 2/13/2017 - thought they were at a relatives down south, I just learned they weren't, they have pictures of Deer Creek in their garage. Does't feel right.

 

[Blueberry2720]

Yes, interesting indeed. I was reminded that some food processor use H2O2 for sanitizing equipment. So, I googled it and came across this:
A clean getaway
I had no idea oxy cleaners could do this.

I sell antique quilts and some are extremely dirty, stained, and smelly when I purchase them. Each quilt, regardless of how clean it looks, gets a good soaking in the bathtub with OxyClean before being gently washed and dried. It is amazing what that stuff does. The tub water is tea colored after almost every soaking, and spots and stains you think will never come out just vanish. Ink is the only stain I have found that OxyClean can't handle. However, never in my wildest dreams did I ever think about what it could do with respect to cleaning a crime scene. You learn something new every day! Interesting post - thanks!
JMO

 

[JenniD]

Yes, interesting indeed. I was reminded that some food processor use H2O2 for sanitizing equipment. So, I googled it and came across this:
A clean getaway
I had no idea oxy cleaners could do this.

I had also recently read that the use of these oxy cleaners can destroy DNA within 2 hours

 

[JenniD]

Been catching up on the thread tonight. Have spent much of last week at the Sydney Loofe murder trial. Was so hoping there would be new information on finding Abby and Libby’s killer.

 

[PaulaDC]

I sell antique quilts and some are extremely dirty, stained, and smelly when I purchase them. Each quilt, regardless of how clean it looks, gets a good soaking in the bathtub with OxyClean before being gently washed and dried. It is amazing what that stuff does. The tub water is tea colored after almost every soaking, and spots and stains you think will never come out just vanish. Ink is the only stain I have found that OxyClean can't handle. However, never in my wildest dreams did I ever think about what it could do with respect to cleaning a crime scene. You learn something new every day! Interesting post - thanks!
JMO

We do janitorial work. When all else fails, OxyClean!
On a gross topic I have an unfixed female puppy in heat. I've got her cloth diapers and keep having to wash sofa covers and the tile floor.(I'm exaggerating it's not that bad but it's gross, I don't live in a barn ) I've been using oxy on everything. It's magic. I just saw some spots on my tile and said to my hubby "if anyone comes in here here to detect blood they will think someone was murdered here" thinking that those stains are forever there as in the past. This is great news to know my cleaner of choice is completely removing any future sign of this!

 

[Trino]

@FinePrint Absolutely agree with you. I live in a town smaller than Delphi. Moved here almost 25 years ago but not a "native" of the town. I know a hand full of people, sort of My neighbours to the left, a couple of people across the street and that's about it other than some of the retailers we purchase from in town. I have no family here except my mother that lives with us. People tend to keep to themselves for the most part. I was pleasantly surprised when my new neighbour across the street (moved in last fall) came over yesterday and introduced herself while I was gardening. I don't imagine it's any different in Delphi unless you're involved with sports and clubs and then again, it's a limited number of people. So, if you're not into the drug scene, I wouldn't expect you'd know about it, but I do expect LE to know about it

You are correct, not only in a small town, but my town of 50,000. We have lived here for 33 years - on a cul-de-sac of 10 houses. Although we are outside a lot, our neighbors aren't, and I can truthfully say, I know nothing about the backgrounds, employment history, etc. of our neighbors.

 

[sunshineray]

No it doesn't matter. How many were at the park that day? 20, 30 40 ? That really is not many people to track down is it? They have had more than two years. Ok so someone misled them perhaps ? If that is true, I don't care, arrest that person and get this information buttoned down.

Problem is if the DNA they have isn't of good quality and say a false alibi holds up because the person providing it is standing firm, it's a waiting game...and a dangerous one at that for anyone living near this person or within their reach. I think it's someone they know but can't convict with what evidence they do have. Someone close to the family who covered their tracks well in the past two years while LE was concentrating on outsiders. AJMO

 

[Trino]

I guess the DQ is interesting, too, since KG worked at one. Not sure any of these work places have relevance, but you never know. Just looking for connections.

If the thinking is BG has local ties, it’s important to understand how and why he does.

Wonder if LE has looked at high school yearbooks, even dating back to years ago.

 

[tresir2012]

LE thought the first sketch was BG, but it was not. So, I'm not persuaded the second sketch is BG, just because they now say they think it is. What still interests me is that LE had this "new" sketch since shortly after the murders. I don't subscribe to a convoluted theory that someone intentionally deceived LE into rejecting the sketch for 2+ years. It was the only sketch they had for the first 5 months, yet they apparently didn't find it credible. I don't know why, but it could be because, maybe, the witness didn't place the person on the trails. The witness simply saw something that the witness thought should be reported. That doesn't sound too convincing to me.

Delphi murders: Investigators have had newly released suspect sketch for 2 years

But once LE cleared(?) the person depicted in the first sketch, with 2 years having gone by and new tips becoming rare, LE had to do something bold to generate interest and make something happen. Thus, the PC and the new strategy. The car (as if someone would remember after 2+ years) and the second sketch (despite LE having not considered it helpful before) were flung out there. Like throwing darts at a dartboard while blindfolded, hoping to get lucky. I'm not convinced that LE is convinced that either the car or sketch is going to matter. No one's talking about the car, and DC has hedged his bets about the accuracy of the new sketch. Sorry to say, I think LE has reached a dead end.

We have to believe they know what they are doing with this changed strategy. While they still have the sketch, video, voice, forensics, DNA hopefully, there is a good chance they will get him, maybe through an arrest for something else or someone from his circle betraying his identity. MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

is there verified confirmation from anywhere that the first released sketch of the older looking guy was from a witness ?

imo the first sketch (older looking) looks like a guess work from the police from the video footage as to what he may have looked like.

the second sketch released of the younger guy imo is the witness account.

so ultimately my speculation is the original released older guy sketch is a fictional guess from the video footage.

which is why the second younger sketch drawn only days later (witness description)was likely discounted because it seemed so radically different from the video images.

moo

Sgt Holeman interview in July 2017 confirmed the OBG was a composite from witnesses IIRC.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Yes, interesting indeed. I was reminded that some food processor use H2O2 for sanitizing equipment. So, I googled it and came across this:
A clean getaway
I had no idea oxy cleaners could do this.

Well isn’t that interesting...
Great find!

 

[tresir2012]

I’m sure he feels pretty empowered since he committed the almost perfect crime despite audio, video, witnesses and potentially no usable DNA and still hasn’t been caught. ( I think they have partial). I too believe the motive was power/thrill and maybe sexual. There doesn’t have to be a sexual assault for motive. I think he was there to kill that day and he chose them based on availability, vulnerability and desirability. I think this was an opportunistic kill, somewhat planned. I still don’t think he’s from Delphi.

I wouldn't call a crime anywhere near perfect where the perp has been caught on both video and audio by a teenage victim and left the victim's phone for LE to find. He will be caught and it is just a matter of time IMO.

 

[tresir2012]

Did Carter or LE say the NBG sketch had been cleared early on?

 

[Thelastleg]

They have said the first sketch is not BG. I don't think he has been discounted as such - he was seen on the trails by several witnesses who contributed. The new sketch guy was also seen by witnesses and is BG. He must have been seen on the trails, as only Libby caught him on camera on the bridge.[/QUOTE]
I think LE released the first sketch as soon as they had discovered the video on Libbys phone. However when it was sent for analysis it showed the person's face was disguised. To save face LE said it had to be discounted. At the PC when it was said that you never thought we would change strategy, this was directed at the murderer that they knew it was a disguise but they don't actually want to confirm it publicly. Perhaps so as not to lose the publics confidence. To make people concentrate on the mannerisms and gait they said take the head off the person. I think under his jacket is an empty back pack. Once the deed was done, he stripped off the outer clothes, wig, hat moustache! and made his way out of the area as a young person dressed accordingly. All my own opinion