PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #16

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Curious how you think RFG was murdered. Shooting - Nope, everyone in the SOS would have known. Stabbing - No blood in the Mini or on the ground anywhere in the area. Tossed in the river - Doubtful as no body was recovered and it's a bit too open an area to knock someone on the head and toss them in the river...and not from the bank. I've been on both the bank and the bridge as well as that entire end of town and extended area on the other side of the bridge. Way too many people wandering about, even on a cold and dreary day.
I think he ended up at the wrong house, with the wrong person. Was he looking at possible retirement properties, a get-a-way place to enjoy after retirement. He could have met with a real estate agent or a seller, ( or someone posing as one) ? Maybe he didn't mention it to anyone because it was an interest, and maybe wasn't going to lead to anything. I think he was murdered because his bank accounts were never touched, and he took his car keys and wallet with him. If a body is buried on private property ( especially under concrete patios, or garages it can stay hidden for decades.
Curious how you think RFG was murdered. Shooting - Nope, everyone in the SOS would have known. Stabbing - No blood in the Mini or on the ground anywhere in the area. Tossed in the river - Doubtful as no body was recovered and it's a bit too open an area to knock someone on the head and toss them in the river...and not from the bank. I've been on both the bank and the bridge as well as that entire end of town and extended area on the other side of the bridge. Way too many people wandering about, even on a cold and dreary day.

? Making some plans for his upcoming retirement. May have wanted a summer home.
 
I think he ended up at the wrong house, with the wrong person. Was he looking at possible retirement properties, a get-a-way place to enjoy after retirement. He could have met with a real estate agent or a seller, ( or someone posing as one) ? Maybe he didn't mention it to anyone because it was an interest, and maybe wasn't going to lead to anything. I think he was murdered because his bank accounts were never touched, and he took his car keys and wallet with him. If a body is buried on private property ( especially under concrete patios, or garages it can stay hidden for decades.


? Making some plans for his upcoming retirement. May have wanted a summer home.

Why no record of communication between the seller/agent and RFG?
 
RFG was clearly distracted or worried about something prior to disposing of the laptop and going missing. So much so that it was noticed by more than one person. We know that RFG traveled to at least one potential disposal site prior to disposing of the laptop at Lewisburg. You just don't go to that much trouble to scout out a disposal site, wipe the hard drive and remove it from the computer. C'mon folks, this is more than just some mundane notes or normal personal stuff. If the ash was planted in the Mini, who would RFG gotten to do it? I'm pretty sure that if someone had been leaning into his car, talking to him and smoking, he would have told them to step back. It is possible that he left the window down while over in the park or SOS and someone leaned in looking for something to walk off with.
 
Snipped for brevity only.

I'm pretty sure that if someone had been leaning into his car, talking to him and smoking, he would have told them to step back. It is possible that he left the window down while over in the park or SOS and someone leaned in looking for something to walk off with.

It is unlikely someone else took it, for these reasons: The Mini was locked and the windows were up. Why would someone take the laptop, not take the cell phone, and then secure the car? That seems totally incredible.

We know that these two things happened, and happened in this order:

1. The ash and smoke got into the passenger compartment of the Mini.

2. The Mini was secured.

Short of teleportation, there is no other order for those two events.
 
In virtually every case I have been on, LE has known much more than they feel the need to share with the public.

Agreed, but they would not make it a "mystery trip." RFG planning to (or just considering it) buy or rent something in Lewisburg ends a good part of the mystery.
 
I have been looking at the Montadon area again, there is even more development and more of the trees have been cleared.
 
I have been looking at the Montadon area again, there is even more development and more of the trees have been cleared.
Central Builders Supply (looking at it on Google Earth) has always nagged me due to the holding ponds and proximity to Lewisburg.
 
Central Builders Supply (looking at it on Google Earth) has always nagged me due to the holding ponds and proximity to Lewisburg.

Some of that area has been cut back. One of the ponds is a holding pond, but most of the others are related to the wetlands.
 
what all do we know about the raystown lake trip? I know I read some but my memory fails me on this aspect.
 
what all do we know about the raystown lake trip? I know I read some but my memory fails me on this aspect.

RFG attended the Prison Board Meeting that morning; the open meeting ended at 8:45 AM, but there was an executive session afterward, so he probably left the Willowbank Building around 9:00-9:15 AM.

Between 10:30 and 11:00 AM he was spotted at a boat landing on Raystown Lake, probably the Aich landing. He was seen by a "doctor" who knew him there. At some point before this, he checked the weather for Raystown Lake.
 
Since this came up, I am posting the timeline:.

Thursday, 4/14/05

8:00 AM: Ray F. Gricar (RFG) attends a Prison Board Meeting in the Willow Bank Building. Minutes show a routine meeting, that dealt with an employee grievance (union thing). Meeting ended at 8:45 AM, though there may have a closed session to deal with the grievance.

Participants noted that RFG seemed to mumble answers to questions and was looking out the window. Uncharacteristic, but consistent with other reports since at least 3/8/05.

c. 10:30-11:00 AM RFG spotted near a boat launch at Lake Raystown, by a "doctor" who knew him.

Before 5:00 PM RFG exchanged some e-mail with then defense attorney Stacy Parks Miller (SPM), regarding a case. He was joking around with her.

unknown time Daughter Lara Gricar (LG) called RFG briefly. She would call him several times a week to check in with him. She has indicated she just called to tell him she loved him.

2:00-4:00 PM Then ADA J. Karen Arnold (JKA) heard what she described as "forcefully closing" the door to RFG's office. She noted that that when he was stressed, he had a habit of closing his door in such a manner, if "busy or preoccupied."

c. 5:30-6:00 PM RFG and live in girlfriend (and coworker) Patty Fornicola (PEF) seen walking in Tallyrand Park, by former County Commissioner Vicky Wedler (who often opposed Gricar when she served). She described Gricar as looking "depressed." She commented to both of them that they looked like "a perfect couple." RFG and PEF continued walking and, after another turn around the park, left.

6:21 PM RFG on security video entering the rear entrance of the Courthouse. He was driving the red Mini Cooper, and was not carrying the laptop. He was wearing the fleece.

9:03 PM RFG seen exiting the Courthouse and driving off in his car. He was not carrying the laptop. One source makes it 8:03 PM.

NB: The most direct route to Lake Raystown is about 55 miles. RFG could have left Bellefonte at 9:00 AM and arrived the by 10:30 AM. He was also known to exceed the speed limit and as being an "adventurous driver."
 
Raystown lake...hmmm. mOO

It is obviously possible that he was looking for someplace to toss the laptop or drive. It is possible that he was going to attend a clandestine meeting. It is possible that he was looking for a place to commit suicide.

In either of the first two cases, the doctor's presence could have interrupter what RFG was planning.

The only thing that this tells us is that RFG probably was not worried about being killed. To get to Raystown Lake, he had to drive through sparely populated area, with minimal police patrols and through areas without cell phone coverage. That is not consistent with someone worried about his safety.
 
Trying to dig in and see if any of the players around RFG were the same as the ones around SPM being forced out.
 
Trying to dig in and see if any of the players around RFG were the same as the ones around SPM being forced out.

Not sure what you mean.

I think the only people that remained were Nathan Boob and Mark Smith. Smith is still there. Boob got another job as an ADA in the central part of the state. Some of the clerical staff might have gone. PEF left just before SPM came it.
 
Not sure what you mean.

I think the only people that remained were Nathan Boob and Mark Smith. Smith is still there. Boob got another job as an ADA in the central part of the state. Some of the clerical staff might have gone. PEF left just before SPM came it.

OK, just tugging on threads I have not tugged on before... No stone left un-turned.
 
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