Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #41

[SouthAussie]

That is a very carefully written letter signed by the BF.


Written in the letter ......“It is in the public interest to find out what has happened to my son.”
Tragic life of missing boy’s father

Conditions for legal aid in NSW for an inquest ..... "Legal Aid is available for representation at coronial inquests in New South Wales where the public interest would be advanced by that representation."
Coronial Inquest Unit - Legal Aid NSW


It is good that he has been approved for Legal Aid for the inquest. I hope the BM does this also. IMO they need some proper advice and guidance, and not influence from unknowing people.

 

[frogwell]

If you have representation at the coronial inquiry, are you given access to a full brief of evidence? Or can you only have your rep ask questions of the evidence that the counsel assisting the coroner has already opened up? I noted that BS rep asked questions about the testimony of the FFC that pertained to him. Just gave me a thought, I wonder if FFCM could be called based on the information the FFC gave in relation to what her mother told her about the washing machine repair process, e.g. when he actually came to the house, did he actually turn up without a phonecall on the 1st visit, etc.

 

[sleepinoz]

If you have representation at the coronial inquiry, are you given access to a full brief of evidence? Or can you only have your rep ask questions of the evidence that the counsel assisting the coroner has already opened up? I noted that BS rep asked questions about the testimony of the FFC that pertained to him. Just gave me a thought, I wonder if FFCM could be called based on the information the FFC gave in relation to what her mother told her about the washing machine repair process, e.g. when he actually came to the house, did he actually turn up without a phonecall on the 1st visit, etc.

Not sure if they get a copy of the brief, but they certainly can't call witnesses.

IMO and I'm not sure, they might get copies of what includes them if anything. It would be up to the Coroner.

 

[JLZ]

If you have representation at the coronial inquiry, are you given access to a full brief of evidence? Or can you only have your rep ask questions of the evidence that the counsel assisting the coroner has already opened up? I noted that BS rep asked questions about the testimony of the FFC that pertained to him. Just gave me a thought, I wonder if FFCM could be called based on the information the FFC gave in relation to what her mother told her about the washing machine repair process, e.g. when he actually came to the house, did he actually turn up without a phonecall on the 1st visit, etc.

BBM--Apparently. This might interest you: http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/NSWBarAssocNews/2014/12.pdf
On page 46 (the article starts on page 39):
"Where leave to appear is to be sought, this can be facilitated by [the rep] firs t contacting counsel assisting (or the instructing solicitor if there is one, or the Coroner's Court) and by attending a call over or directions hearing, and requesting a copy of the brief of evidence."
Also:
"The family is always given a copy of the brief of evidence."

 

[sleepinoz]

BBM--Apparently. This might interest you: http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/NSWBarAssocNews/2014/12.pdf
On page 46 (the article starts on page 39):
"Where leave to appear is to be sought, this can be facilitated by [the rep] firs t contacting counsel assisting (or the instructing solicitor if there is one, or the Coroner's Court) and by attending a call over or directions hearing, and requesting a copy of the brief of evidence."
Also:
"The family is always given a copy of the brief of evidence."

Would they be considered family even though they had lost parental rights?

 

[SouthAussie]

Would they be considered family even though they had lost parental rights?

Interesting question. Could be that the 'primary family' is given the police brief ... the people that have legal custody of William which are FACS and the foster parents.

 

[frogwell]

Would they be considered family even though they had lost parental rights?

Good question, I can't answer, but in the court, by the coroner's request, they are referred to as William Tyrrell's biological mother, biological father, female foster career and male foster career. Condolences are extended to all as they give eveidence from the coroner. I wondered if only the minister would receive a copy...I hope that is unlikely.

 

[SouthAussie]

Good question, I can't answer, but in the court, by the coroner's request, they are referred to as William Tyrrell's biological mother, biological father, female foster career and male foster career. Condolences are extended to all as they give eveidence from the coroner. I wondered if only the minister would receive a copy...I hope that is unlikely.

Geez ... I hope that is unlikely, too.
Someone (who is not at arms length like the Minister is) should be allowed to have the brief of evidence. Someone who loves and cares for William deeply, and cared for him on a daily basis.

I have also wondered how much of the brief of evidence that is furnished to the family - if it is furnished to the family in this case - has been edited.
I recall reading that the Coroner can withhold evidence at her discretion. Though that might be only if releasing certain evidence could affect the ongoing case.

 

[interested64]

If you have representation at the coronial inquiry, are you given access to a full brief of evidence? Or can you only have your rep ask questions of the evidence that the counsel assisting the coroner has already opened up? I noted that BS rep asked questions about the testimony of the FFC that pertained to him. Just gave me a thought, I wonder if FFCM could be called based on the information the FFC gave in relation to what her mother told her about the washing machine repair process, e.g. when he actually came to the house, did he actually turn up without a phonecall on the 1st visit, etc.

yes i would like that info also,i cant help but wonder about when the fc talk they always talk more abt the repair man than any other poi

 

[Thebottomline]

yes i would like that info also,i cant help but wonder about when the fc talk they always talk more abt the repair man than any other poi

Deleted sorry

 

[JLZ]

See Coroners Act 2009 section 57 (1) and (3) on who gets leave to appear (to be represented) and section 5 on the meaning of 'relative'. Clearly FCs qualify. I think the biological parents would qualify as relatives, but if they didn't, they would surely be considered persons with sufficient interest in the subject matter.

Edit: I forgot to quote, and I don't know how to add it on edit. This is addressing Sleep's question. It seems from the article I quoted that the representative of anyone with leave to appear can request the brief. I am not sure what would happen if family declined to be represented . . . eg would bio father have received a copy of the brief?

 

[SouthAussie]

yes i would like that info also,i cant help but wonder about when the fc talk they always talk more abt the repair man than any other poi

Likely because he is the person who they (FGM) had the most interaction with. The one who may have just stopped by FGM's house to do the repair, at any time - seeing that the part had arrived.
And there has always been questions about his involvement because he has not been eliminated from the case, as far as we know.

I notice that at the inquest more than several people were asked about the neighbour. I wonder what that was about. Seeing that a neighbour has been described as a key person of interest.

 

[sleepinoz]

See Coroners Act 2009 section 57 (1) and (3) on who gets leave to appear (to be represented) and section 5 on the meaning of 'relative'. Clearly FCs qualify. I think the biological parents would qualify as relatives, but if they didn't, they would surely be considered persons with sufficient interest in the subject matter.

Edit: I forgot to quote, and I don't know how to add it on edit. This is addressing Sleep's question. It seems from the article I quoted that the representative of anyone with leave to appear can request the brief. I am not sure what would happen if family declined to be represented . . . eg would bio father have received a copy of the brief?

That's a hard one to answer, I suppose it would be up to the Coroner who actually gets the brief. As SA has stated she has the right to withhold if she deems necessary.

Under 57 (1) even though parental rights have been lost, I imagine that they have a right to have representation as interested parties/relatives - again the choice of the Coroner.

 

[SouthAussie]

See Coroners Act 2009 section 57 (1) and (3) on who gets leave to appear (to be represented) and section 5 on the meaning of 'relative'. Clearly FCs qualify. I think the biological parents would qualify as relatives, but if they didn't, they would surely be considered persons with sufficient interest in the subject matter.

Edit: I forgot to quote, and I don't know how to add it on edit. This is addressing Sleep's question. It seems from the article I quoted that the representative of anyone with leave to appear can request the brief. I am not sure what would happen if family declined to be represented . . . eg would bio father have received a copy of the brief?

I have to admit, while I have great empathy for all of the parents of William. I am most twitchy about the BD having access to the brief of evidence as, to me, he seems to be the most publicly unstable.

By that I mean he appears to have done some odd things (understandable, please do not think I am getting down on him) in his 'search' for William. And his mother aired all of his difficulties to the public, herself.
And now this letter has somehow made its way to Candace Sutton (of all people , imo).

I would hate for anyone to overstep the mark and interfere in the case. Perhaps approach POIs. I think if anyone will, it will be him, due to his emotional state and fragility.

 

[Bohemian]

I have to admit, while I have great empathy for all of the parents of William's. I am most twitchy about the BD having access to the brief of evidence as, to me, he seems to be the most publicly unstable. By that I mean he appears to have done some odd things (understandable, please do not think I am getting down on him) in his 'search' for William. And now this letter has somehow made its way to Candace Sutton (of all people , imo).

It’s not really William’s BF I worry about but those that ‘surround’ him who may have their own agenda. He seems very vulnerable. A broken man.

 

[SouthAussie]

It’s not really William’s BF I worry about but those that ‘surround’ him who may have their own agenda. He seems very vulnerable. A broken man.

I worry about him, I worry about other members of his direct family.

I worry that he feels that he has nothing to lose, and may involve himself with the POIs more than he should - if he gets case information.

Hopefully finding William is the biggest priority to him, and that will keep him from doing anything unwise.

 

[Bohemian]

I worry about him, I worry about other members of his direct family.

Hopefully he does get some decent legal advice and listens to it, regardless of what unknowing ‘lay’ people tell him. I would hate to see him and/or William’s BM exploited for other people’s ends.

 

[Bohemian]

I worry about him, I worry about other members of his direct family.

I worry that he feels that he has nothing to lose, and may involve himself with the POIs more than he should - if he gets case information.

Hopefully finding William is the biggest priority to him, and that will keep him from doing anything unwise.

BBM.

I hadn’t really considered that, SA. God forbid he, or anyone else, took matters into their own hands. What a tragedy for them and William’s siblings if they did.

 

[Thebottomline]

I worry about him, I worry about other members of his direct family.

I worry that he feels that he has nothing to lose, and may involve himself with the POIs more than he should - if he gets case information.

Hopefully finding William is the biggest priority to him, and that will keep him from doing anything unwise.

I think the timing of his letter/ statement is a direct response to the podcast where ffc talks about the incredible bond between William and mfc’er. I think he’s trying to say hey I’m the father and where’s the talk of me and our bond etc. I can imagine him being egged on to do this too from his biggest supporter IMO

 

[papertrail]

So let me get this straight. Your theory about William’s disappearance consists of at least two people, with intelligence services-level phone hacking and surveillance skills, physically installing secret listening software not only on FM’s but also FF’s phones, following them to Kendall, laying in wait for the FF’s car (that they could identify through FB photos posted prior) to leave FGM’s, tracking FF’s phone by GPS, and listening in to the FM’s phone for the right time to grab William, to keep him as their own or for the dark web? Sounds like the plot of a Mission: Impossible movie.

Except their mission succeeded.

And you don't have to have intelligent agent service levels to install a hacking virus on a mobile phone. Just one click will do it. Even a simpleton mind could do it.