Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #11

[dotr]

Maybe if JS had gone into film-making instead of storage, BS might have happily supported those projects instead of FDA's ventures, on the other hand... .. imo.
Charles Bronfman opens up about Seagram's demise: 'It is a disaster'
"May 11, 2018 rbbm.
He is an unusual sort of billionaire. Like some of his peers, his fortune originates in a legendary business empire. But unlike them, he knows what it is like to see that business implode and collapse. Rarer still, he has publicly committed to giving away most of what remains.

He is open to discussing missteps, even painful ones, especially if he feels others will learn from them. There were the early mistakes with his philanthropic foundation (sky-high ambitions, less-than-precise goals). There was the ill-advised third marriage, to an architect, which ended in divorce.

And of course, there is the demise of Seagram Co. Ltd., the liquor giant built by his father Samuel. In the 1990s, Edgar Bronfman Jr., Mr. Bronfman's nephew, led the company into the entertainment industry and eventually, a calamitous acquisition in 2000 by France's Vivendi SA.

For years, the Montreal native said little to nothing publicly about the choices that destroyed Seagram. Now, Mr. Bronfman is more candid. "It was a disaster, it is a disaster, it will be a disaster," he says. "It was a family tragedy."

 

[ldlager]

I think it was hypocritical that JS still tried to involve his dad and borrow money for his business if he thought his father was becoming incompetent. I find it appalling that he would go behind his father’s back to get his sisters to agree with him regarding his father’s stability. However, as mentioned, this is not a new thing to try to overthrow a patriarch.

And, I agree if BS was was or showing signs of dementia, it would have been all over these threads. Imo JS does not have the genius or business savvy that his father had....not even close.

I know from people who have dealings with those involved that your assessment of js is spot on.

 

[Tighthead]

Maybe if JS had gone into film-making instead of storage, BS might have happily supported those projects instead of FDA's ventures, on the other hand... .. imo.
Charles Bronfman opens up about Seagram's demise: 'It is a disaster'
"May 11, 2018 rbbm.
He is an unusual sort of billionaire. Like some of his peers, his fortune originates in a legendary business empire. But unlike them, he knows what it is like to see that business implode and collapse. Rarer still, he has publicly committed to giving away most of what remains.

He is open to discussing missteps, even painful ones, especially if he feels others will learn from them. There were the early mistakes with his philanthropic foundation (sky-high ambitions, less-than-precise goals). There was the ill-advised third marriage, to an architect, which ended in divorce.

And of course, there is the demise of Seagram Co. Ltd., the liquor giant built by his father Samuel. In the 1990s, Edgar Bronfman Jr., Mr. Bronfman's nephew, led the company into the entertainment industry and eventually, a calamitous acquisition in 2000 by France's Vivendi SA.

For years, the Montreal native said little to nothing publicly about the choices that destroyed Seagram. Now, Mr. Bronfman is more candid. "It was a disaster, it is a disaster, it will be a disaster," he says. "It was a family tragedy."

Funnily enough the Bronfmans managed to weather the storm. Stephen is looking back into MLB as an owner. Although the family lost control, it seems they were generally bought out if various assets.

Seagrams was a much more diversified company. At one point they owned 25 per cent of DuPont, which is staggering. They were very much a cash rich company. The generic pharma industry sounds like a constant sprint, requiring reinvestment of income to catch the next wave.

Barry’s “problem” is that a huge amount of his wealth was tied up in a private company that relied heavily in his own vision and expertise. The recent article mention liquidity issues.

You can’t really put a hard value on Apotex until such time as it is actually sold. I would think Barry’s death hurt the value.

JS was pretty entitled about borrowing from Barry, but he was spot on that having anything to do with FDA is a terrible idea.

 

[JDG]

No I do not believe he does

Paulin might have a job at Apotex now that Jonathan is in charge of 'firing'. speculation on my part.

 

[JDG]

I think it was hypocritical that JS still tried to involve his dad and borrow money for his business if he thought his father was becoming incompetent. I find it appalling that he would go behind his father’s back to get his sisters to agree with him regarding his father’s stability. However, as mentioned, this is not a new thing to try to overthrow a patriarch.

And, I agree if BS was was or showing signs of dementia, it would have been all over these threads. Imo JS does not have the genius or business savvy that his father had....not even close.

Indeed, it could be construed as Elder Abuse, IMO IF THERE is any truth to it.

 

[dotr]

Paulin might have a job at Apotex now that Jonathan is in charge of 'firing'. speculation on my part.

Wondering if JS's husband also works at the company?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I don’t understand the last paragraph of Donovan’s story.

In February of 2019, Green Storage paid $1.2 million for a storage facility in Scarborough. According to land title documents, a $25 million loan from Hour Holdings was registered on title.

Barry Sherman’s son raised concerns about Apotex founder’s investment strategy and business competence: Sources

Barry Sherman funded Hour Holdings, according to the Star. So, I’m guessing his estate is funding the above.

Why is there a 25 million dollar loan on title for a 1.2 million dollar storage facility?

 

[Tighthead]

I don’t understand the last paragraph of Donovan’s story.



Barry Sherman’s son raised concerns about Apotex founder’s investment strategy and business competence: Sources

Barry Sherman funded Hour Holdings, according to the Star. So, I’m guessing his estate is funding the above.

Why is there a 25 million dollar loan on title for a 1.2 million dollar storage facility?

I don’t understand the last paragraph of Donovan’s story.



Barry Sherman’s son raised concerns about Apotex founder’s investment strategy and business competence: Sources

Barry Sherman funded Hour Holdings, according to the Star. So, I’m guessing his estate is funding the above.

Why is there a 25 million dollar loan on title for a 1.2 million dollar storage facility?

The amount registered isn’t the amount advanced. Reading the article, the amounts registered were well in excess of value.

I suspect that this was largely to prevent JS and his partner from borrowing against the equity in the properties. BS may not have trusted their decision making, so he handcuffed them so all borrowing would have to come through him.

Secondary loans in commercial properties are often around 12 per cent interest.

 

[JDG]

The amount registered isn’t the amount advanced. Reading the article, the amounts registered were well in excess of value.

I suspect that this was largely to prevent JS and his partner from borrowing against the equity in the properties. BS may not have trusted their decision making, so he handcuffed them so all borrowing would have to come through him.

Secondary loans in commercial properties are often around 12 per cent interest.

Tighthead,

This purchase was in 2019. So whatever was set up for Hour Holdings is being controlled by BS after death? or, the terms thereof?

Are you (the estate) still considered to be 'in control' of assets after death if its in the small print?

TIA for your response.

 

[Tighthead]

Tighthead,

This purchase was in 2019. So whatever was set up for Hour Holdings is being controlled by BS after death? or, the terms thereof?

Are you (the estate) still considered to be 'in control' of assets after death if its in the small print?

TIA for your response.

Actually, Hour is the holdco of Paulin and JS. So I guess Barry would lend to Hour, who would secure the loan this way.

On quick instinct, I would assume that they did this as creditor proofing in case Green Storage fails. Basically securing their own money.

In my opinion it would be unusual for the estate to lend money in this matter, but the children may have received large sums of money outside of probate. It’s also possible a distribution has been made at this time.

 

[JDG]

Thank you. ^^

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Indeed, it could be construed as Elder Abuse, IMO IF THERE is any truth to it.

Becoming or already being "incompetent" - I would ask: which one, the elder or rather the younger one of both? Owning x storage facilities, there is no need at all for owning more and more of it, if only possible with the credit of hard-working people like JS' father. My layman-opinion.
I am appalled by this behavior of BS' son. It shows to me: who cries most at the funeral, is not necessarily the one with the greatest morality. MOO

 

[nuff]

Imo JS does not have the genius or business savvy that his father had....not even close.

Prior to the storage business, JS had briefly taken over the failing Steelback Brewery, an Fd'A venture funded by BS. It was not a success. Last call for Steelback: Report | The Star

I think there's a lot more to the Fd'A - JS story we don't know.

 

[human]

Numbers such as $100 million are a lot, but a billion is a thousand million. That is a lot of money to fool around with.

Barry backed other losing propositions. He kept pouring money into the Winters, for instance.

Think of it as playing machines at a casino but with more control. People find gambling fun and exciting. Money for Barry probable was not as valuable as it was for those he supported

 

[nuff]

Think of it as playing machines at a casino but with more control. People find gambling fun and exciting. Money for Barry probable was not as valuable as it was for those he supported

Good point. IMO, D'A's exploits, especially his film-making, were a source of amusement for BS that he could well afford to support. (A lot more fun than self-storage.) Plus, maybe the two were actually friends - BS didn't seem to have a lot of those.

 

[deugirtni]

Good point. IMO, D'A's exploits, especially his film-making, were a source of amusement for BS that he could well afford to support. (A lot more fun than self-storage.) Plus, maybe the two were actually friends - BS didn't seem to have a lot of those.

B seemed to have at least a couple of really good friends, as far as we know - FD'A and JK. Not sure how many one might expect him to have, considering he seemed the type that might value quality of friends over quantity of friends. It's also gotta be tough when one is a billionaire and never sure who's wanting to befriend you for yourself, or for your money.

In any case, it seems from this most recent Donovan article that B had some confidence that FD'A had something to offer, more than just amusement. Perhaps he also fancied his name being listed as Executive Co-Producer'?:

The emails between father and son reveal an ongoing sore point between them: Barry's long-standing friendship and business relationship with Frank D'Angelo, a Toronto businessman who with Barry's help had built several food and beverage-related businesses over the years, all under the heading of "D'Angelo Brands." D'Angelo was also making movies and Barry Sherman was his funder and co-executive producer.

In an exchange that focuses on Barry's ongoing financial support of D'Angelo, Jonathon writes to his father on April 28, 2015, with the subject heading "explain it to me."

"You said 'it's not so simple,' Can you explain it to me? I'm bright and educated. If you explain it to me I will try and understand," Jonathon writes.

Barry shoots back one minute later, "Explain exactly what?"

Jonathon replies, asking how his father determines "that it is worthwhile to invest more money with Frank despite year after year of losses. What are you seeing that everyone else is missing?"

Jonathon alleges in the emails that his father has over the years given D'Angelo millions of dollars — Jonathon puts the figure at $250 million over 15 years — with little to show for it.
....
"Dad, With all respect, I am trying to understand the specifics of the business logic with this investment ... I'm looking for the numbers being plugged into those equations," Jonathon writes. He then pitches his father on a plan, which he says will require $250 million investment over 15 years.

Sounds to me like JS had a big case of jealousy and entitlement, and was in competition with B's friend FD'A, to get his hands on more than he figured FD'A had received over the years. jmo.

 

[WINDSOR]

In most murder cases cops look at the Motive, Means and Opportunity.

Donovan's recent story could be used to imply a motive for one or more individuals.

The next question is Opportunity. What was any particular individual doing when the murders took place?
If an individual has an airtight alibi, would it be possible he had surrogates do the crime?

I am sure the TPS is investigating these issues. I am reminded of the Oland case, son kills wealthy father, and convicted after second trial.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-murder-retrial-closing-arguments-1.5054635

 

[deugirtni]

In most murder cases cops look at the Motive, Means and Opportunity.

Donovan's recent story could be used to imply a motive for one or more individuals.

The next question is Opportunity. What was any particular individual doing when the murders took place?
If an individual has an airtight alibi, would it be possible he had surrogates do the crime?

I am sure the TPS is investigating these issues. I am reminded of the Oland case, son kills wealthy father, and convicted after second trial.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dennis-oland-murder-retrial-closing-arguments-1.5054635

I think his son was convicted of 2nd degree murder at his first trial, but it was appealed, retried by judge-only, and we are awaiting the verdict of the second trial. It would be vastly different I think, because it seemed to be a murder carried out in a fit of rage.. whereas this one seems rather calculated (timing, location of the bodies, COD, no signs of intruder, etc.). imo.

 

[deugirtni]

I am wondering if perhaps there was a difference, as far as BS was concerned, in regard to the worthiness of business plans presented to him for financing. Apo is a pharma co, requiring generics to be mfgd. FD'A's interests were acting, producing, etc., and mfg'ng AriZona drinks. BS's brother-in-law was involved in a diamond/jewellery business.

Meanwhile, JS's dream was to buy up a bunch of cottages in an area where the prices hadn't yet skyrocketed, just because he *could* (with money from his dad, of course), and then wait for prices to skyrocket or promote prices to skyrocket in the area... and to also buy a bunch of apparently already existing storage businesses and rename them his own and perhaps provide better customer service. There doesn't seem to be a lot of ingenuity involved there, in which to perhaps help his son grow a concept or a product, etc.

Then BS gets accused of losing his marbles (by someone who wants something but perhaps isn't getting his way), based on financing a friend who seemed to actually have a lot of things on the go. For whatever FD'A is, it feels like he should at least get an A for effort. I don't know a lot about him, but it seems he sings, he acts, he produces, he directs, he writes, and he's also a restaurateur. Maybe his ambition and determination and seeming multiple talents impressed BS, to such a degree that he chose to finance him (with his own earned money). It wasn't his 40 year younger, less educated, less intelligent son's decision to make, I'm sure much to his chagrin.

Frank D’Angelo: Restaurateur, songwriter, filmmaker, whirlwind

 

[WINDSOR]

Beyond being a charming individual I do not believe FD'A has any great talents for business or film making. One has just to watch one of his films for a few minutes to be aware of that. I do not believe BS's relationship with FD'A was based on making money for BS. I think it was more on an emotional friendship basis. The fact JS questioned and referred negatively to BS and FD'As relationship on a business basis missed the point. I also think it might be a little presumptuous for JS to question one of the most successful entrepreneurs in Canadian history about his business acumen. I have a feeling that BS was not too impressed with JS's investment strategy of buying real estate and holding until the price went up. It is my understanding BS liked creativity and excitement in his projects.