Deceased/Not Found IL - Yingying Zhang, 26, Urbana, 9 June 2017 #10 *Still Missing*

[AnemoneBrown]

I'm intrigued.

No. None at all. You will never catch me saying they have suffered the same as YY’s family, but I do feel bad for them. None of them wanted anything like this to happen. None of them have condoned or excused it. It has to be an awful and lonely place they are in now.... arguing to spare a family member’s life, when so many want him executed for a perfectly valid and just reason.

BC’s sister is.......... different. I saw her Facebook page, and some of the jewelry/headware she makes are........ interesting, given the nature of this case.

I don’t think it means anything and is nothing more than coincidental, but it is a bit creepy when considering this case.

 

[AnemoneBrown]

Thanks Kitty it was 2 times. Yes. Still that's not trying very hard. What's even scarier is that he first went on March 21 and returned 9 days later. This means it was a short two weeks before he went on that free fall.

Defense: Accused in China scholar's death denied proper care

 

[kittythehare]

Thanks Kitty. I'll review them. I apologize for missing it. Still, could the counseling sessions made him worse?

I dont think so.
He lied during those sessions.
He was claiming alcohol made his fantasies worse when in fact alcohol curbed them competely.
He did not use alcohol on the day he killed YY.
He even referred to that in one convo with Bullis.. that it would not have happened had he been drinking.
Michelle, his meal-ticket was about to leave and he was terrified at the prospect of having to get a job and support himself.
He attended in an attempt to keep his marriage/meal-ticket.
He even lied in the course of his second therapy session, said he had no thoughts of hurting anybody because he had not imbibed alcohol for a month.
He was still having the affair with the facebook friend, since 2016 so he lied when he told them Michelle was the only one for him.... etc.
I think it's more he got documented than escalated following the sessions.
At the opening the prosecution stated they had interviewed multiple sexual partners of his, so he was lying there too.
See facebook convo evidence for a better track of his antics and games.

 

[kittythehare]

Kitty can you help? I can only find one visit cited on the Zhang's lawsuit. Zhang’s Estate Sues U Of I Counselors, Christensen

How many times did he go?

1. Said Christensen expressed hopefulness at this meeting and thought he was getting better, hadn't drank alcohol in a month. (6/9)
   
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2. 
   Ben Zigterman‏ @bzigterman 5h5 hours ago
   Said Christensen referred to his thoughts as fantasies and didn't have a specific victim in mind. Said he had returned the stuff he'd bought to transport a body. (5/9)
   
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3. 
   Ben Zigterman‏ @bzigterman 5h5 hours ago
   Tom Miebach, a UI counselor, then testified. He met with Christensen to assess his homicidal thoughts 3/30/17 (4/9)

went twice, didn't show up for meet they arranged for addiction centre but did fill out the forms

 

[AnemoneBrown]

So he probably just went to appease Michelle? To show her he was trying? I think you are right.

I dont think so.
He lied during those sessions.
He was claiming alcohol made his fantasies worse when in fact alcohol curbed them competely.
He did not use alcohol on the day he killed YY.
He even referred to that in one convo with Bullis.. that it would not have happened had he been drinking.
Michelle, his meal-ticket was about to leave and he was terrified at the prospect of having to get a job and support himself.
He attended in an attempt to keep his marriage/meal-ticket.
He even lied in the course of his second therapy session, said he had no thoughts of hurting anybody because he had not imbibed alcohol for a month.
He was still having the affair with the facebook friend, since 2016 so he lied when he told them Michelle was the only one for him.... etc.
I think it's more he got documented than escalated following the sessions.
At the opening the prosecution stated they had interviewed multiple sexual partners of his, so he was lying there too.
See facebook convo evidence for a better track of his antics and games.

 

[kittythehare]

So he probably just went to appease Michelle? To show her he was trying? I think you are right.

That's my reading of it... She freaked out when he disclosed 'certain' info to her regarding his desire to be a serial killer , possibly March 16, not sure of date and fuzzy about exact content of his disclosure, may have been more than a discussion about fantasies... may have been an admission of sorts about prior murders...
The lawsuit is disregarding or was not privy to the appropriate referral to the addiction centre... that's a bit strange...
I don't think it will wash in it's current form and especially after today's declarations by the therapists.
They could only go on his words, he told them he was better, had quit drinking etc etc..
I just watched the vid, girl was an intern and she did an excellent job with him in my experience.
She also took advice.

I honestly do not see what more they could have done, he declined hospital admission, wasn't enough evidence to force it..

1. Maupin met with him and then he met with another counselor, and he was referred to Rosecrance, which he apparently never went to. She said the UI counseling center is meant to be for short term care. (7/10)
   
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2. 
   Ben Zigterman‏ @bzigterman 8h8 hours ago
   Jennifer Maupin, a former clinical counselor, then testified. She focused on Christensen's alcohol issues. She said a group of four clinicians/students reviewed his case before he returned. (6/10
   

 

[AnemoneBrown]

I agree with you. We also discussed sometime ago whether U of I had policy in place with a duty to report, but I could not find it and then we talked about the fact that, as you say, he lied and said that was all behind him.

To think two weeks later he would go on overdrive.

It looks like the "disclosure" took place in December:
"Zortman said the couple had almost no social life outside of each other and spent each night together playing video games and watching movies. That changed one night in December 2016, when Christensen got drunk and made comments to his wife that scared her to the point where she began considering a divorce."

Christensen Drove Car 200 Miles in Days Surrounding Zhang’s Disappearance

That's my reading of it... She freaked out when he disclosed 'certain' info to her regarding his desire to be a serial killer , possibly March 16, not sure of date and fuzzy about exact content of his disclosure, may have been more than a discussion about fantasies... may have been an admission of sorts about prior murders...
The lawsuit is disregarding or was not privy to the appropriate referral to the addiction centre... that's a bit strange...
I don't think it will wash in it's current form and especially after today's declarations by the therapists.
They could only go on his words, he told them he was better, had quit drinking etc etc..
I just watched the vid, girl was an intern and she did an excellent job with him in my experience.
She also took advice.

I honestly do not see what more they could have done, he declined hospital admission, wasn't enough evidence to force it..

1. Maupin met with him and then he met with another counselor, and he was referred to Rosecrance, which he apparently never went to. She said the UI counseling center is meant to be for short term care. (7/10)
   
   1 reply0 retweets0 likes
   
   Show this thread
2. 
   Ben Zigterman‏ @bzigterman 8h8 hours ago
   Jennifer Maupin, a former clinical counselor, then testified. She focused on Christensen's alcohol issues. She said a group of four clinicians/students reviewed his case before he returned. (6/10

 

[kittythehare]

I agree with you. We also discussed sometime ago whether U of I had policy in place with a duty to report, but I could not find it and then we talked about the fact that, as you say, he lied and said that was all behind him.

To think two weeks later he would go on overdrive.

It looks like the "disclosure" took place in December:
"Zortman said the couple had almost no social life outside of each other and spent each night together playing video games and watching movies. That changed one night in December 2016, when Christensen got drunk and made comments to his wife that scared her to the point where she began considering a divorce."

Christensen Drove Car 200 Miles in Days Surrounding Zhang’s Disappearance

EXACT lies

1. C had also reported “depressive” mood symptoms, was experiencing thoughts of “guilt” “helplessness” and “lethargy” and was getting 2-4 hours of restless sleep at night. He also noted that his passion for his academic career decreased. @WCIA3
   
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2. Aaron Eades Retweeted
   Courtney Bunting‏ @cbuntingWCIA3 8h8 hours ago
   The assessment shows BC saying Zortman wanted to separate mostly because of his alcohol abuse, and that he never made any other friends because his wife had “always been enough”.
   
   
3. It was just all BS.

 

[Tssiemer]

Duty to warn is difficult without a direct threat at someone. He should have been involuntarily committed IMO as a social worker. Any one who is risk to or them selves should be properly assessed.

 

[Raptors001]

I wasn't referring to this crime but about his juvenile years. I was stating that if he had issues back then had he had treatment.
What he is in court for is his own responsibility, his own doing.

If you had a pitbull, and it bites and kill a human being, what do you do to the dog ???

 

[Webthrush]

EXACT lies.... <snip>
...It was just all BS.

I agree it was a lot of BS; I just think much of what he said to TEB on the vigil tape is also BS; BS is what BC does!
Still hoping a true/fuller accounting of the crime will come before end of sentencing -- hope that's not just wishful thinking.

 

[AnemoneBrown]

Duty to warn is difficult without a direct threat at someone. He should have been involuntarily committed IMO as a social worker. Any one who is risk to or them selves should be properly assessed.

I went to U of I many years ago and a friend of mine had gone through a break-up and went to the counseling center. I guess during his visit he said he had experienced some fleeting thoughts of self-harm and next thing he knew he was involuntarily committed. All of his friends had to rush to see him over there since he did not meet us that afternoon.

In those days, the counseling center did not play. They had you evaluated more thoroughly right away. If you were alright (as my friend was) then great, but they were not taking risks.

 

[AnemoneBrown]

My friend was in his late twenties, That was alm0st 20 years ago!

BBM

Can you figure out the year, and your friend's age, and the actual age of adulthood in Illinois then?

When I left for college, I was still a juvenile. In those days, all communication went to the parents.

The school was legally required to act "in loco parentis" -- in place of a parent -- for students.

My son voted in a presidential election while a high school senior. I was a college senior, as the voting age was 21 at that time.

Yes, I am old, and remember the the day that Reagan was shot, and yes the day Kennedy was as well.

 

[kittythehare]

I agree it was a lot of BS; I just think much of what he said to TEB on the vigil tape is also BS; BS is what BC does!
Still hoping a true/fuller accounting of the crime will come before end of sentencing -- hope that's not just wishful thinking.

I'm no longer optimistic about that happening.
I'm expecting some kind of drama because his defense cannot be as bad as they seem.
They managed to milk this for 2 solid years of nothingness, mostly a psyche defense which got chucked immediately as soon as they learnt the names of the state's psychiatrists.
Overnight, it was withdrawn and no reason given.
A huge dramatic legal thingy.
No explanation.
I'm thinking they must have some mega-trick up their sleeves but I saw no evidence of it at all from any of the info we got.. paltry, I know but if there was some major inference at least one of the journos tweeting would have mentioned it.

He might try killing himself.. it looks like he knows he lost Michelle today... but that's just what it looks like, for all we know she could be on the phone with him since he escaped with 'migraine', having rubbed his head a few times.

This is an awful cold thing.
We have no descriptions of what's actually going on in there, no observations about the jury, who was there, how they responded, how he responded, of the tone of the questions and responses and we have sfa legal analysis of the possibilities.
It's a big nothing burger.. just the lettuce!

We'll be in a tate of torpor when it's over...no wiser, no YY, no story.
Back to the gym we march cos, seriously we have nothing to prove he didn't use that petrol for torture or destructive purposes or indeed any evidence of him leaving his apartment since he killed her there.

I think it's possible he kept trophies.
Michelle said he was secretive. Closed.
I still think he has a hiding place that they never found.
And I still think there are other victims scattered somewhere. And I think that may well be what he confessed to Michelle that night in December. while drunk. She put it all down to alcohol.

But I wish , with you , it is better than the scenario I just painted.

 

[kittythehare]

Duty to warn is difficult without a direct threat at someone. He should have been involuntarily committed IMO as a social worker. Any one who is risk to or them selves should be properly assessed.

have a look at the vid of his counseling session, the first one is on the exhibit list and there is a transcript too.
I do not now what else they could have done after the details disclosed today.

 

[AnemoneBrown]

Hear hear. I still think most offenders will dispose of bodies and evidence in a place where they feel comfortable (at least that's what the research shows) So I went looking for any of his old online profiles looking for any disclosures about activities and places in remote or isolated areas but could not find any profiles for him. Surely, he would've wanted to go back and look at his handy work via a trophy, as you say, or the dump/burial site.

I'm no longer optimistic about that happening.
I'm expecting some kind of drama because his defense cannot be as bad as they seem.
They managed to milk this for 2 solid years of nothingness, mostly a psyche defense which got chucked immediately as soon as they learnt the names of the state's psychiatrists.
Overnight, it was withdrawn and no reason given.
A huge dramatic legal thingy.
No explanation.
I'm thinking they must have some mega-trick up their sleeves but I saw no evidence of it at all from any of the info we got.. paltry, I know but if there was some major inference at least one of the journos tweeting would have mentioned it.

He might try killing himself.. it looks like he knows he lost Michelle today... but that's just what it looks like, for all we know she could be on the phone with him since he escaped with 'migraine', having rubbed his head a few times.

This is an awful cold thing.
We have no descriptions of what's actually going on in there, no observations about the jury, who was there, how they responded, how he responded, of the tone of the questions and responses and we have sfa legal analysis of the possibilities.
It's a big nothing burger.. just the lettuce!

We'll be in a tate of torpor when it's over...no wiser, no YY, no story.
Back to the gym we march cos, seriously we have nothing to prove he didn't use that petrol for torture or destructive purposes or indeed any evidence of him leaving his apartment since he killed her there.

I think it's possible he kept trophies.
Michelle said he was secretive. Closed.
I still think he has a hiding place that they never found.
And I still think there are other victims scattered somewhere. And I think that may well be what he confessed to Michelle that night in December. while drunk. She put it all down to alcohol.

But I wish , with you , it is better than the scenario I just painted.

 

[kittythehare]

Hear hear. I still think most offenders will dispose of bodies and evidence in a place where they feel comfortable (at least that's what the research shows) So I went looking for any of his old online profiles looking for any disclosures about activities and places in remote or isolated areas but could not find any profiles for him. Surely, he would've wanted to go back and look at his handy work via a trophy, as you say, or the dump/burial site.

so, we can say, well, we always knew but past few weeks has enhanced our knowledge that he was bone lazy, so is it not conceivable that the trophy place or the place of concealment is very close to his apartment? His interest in serial killers started early 2016...killing her and dismembering her, if that happened, would probably not have been sufficient- he wanted to surpass Bundy.. he was even better than Bundy in his own mind...
no job, no way to run a car if Michelle gone... had to be walking distance...he was building up his CV... might have felt he would need to provide proof for his new peer group of serial killer admirers?

 

[dm92]

I really struggled yesterday, YYs mum and dad got to me and that poor Juror. If I were on the Jury, I'd have been in tears too knowing that the dreams of becoming a grandma will never be.

I'm touched as well. Hard to read a lot of this !

I might be wrong, but I seem to recall reading something that said other jurors were crying during YY's mom's video. It wasn't just the one juror. She was just so overcome she had to get out......

 

[trunkizback]

I might be wrong, but I seem to recall reading something that said other jurors were crying during YY's mom's video. It wasn't just the one juror. She was just so overcome she had to get out......

I still can't watch that vid of the fathers statement and the mom breaks down without tearing up. There is absolutely no worse pain than losing a child. Unfortunately, both parties here are experiencing just that. Someone else said it earlier, there are just no winners here.

 

[trunkizback]

I grew up in the late 60's early 70's and spent many, many days hangin around the U of I campus. I was definitely part of the hippie college campus experience. It's struck me that in another time YY would probably have been of the hippie mindset. I even remember one of the YY pics of her flashing the peace sign. I think that's one of the factors that really rings my bells on all of this. YY was just such a little sweety who probably didn't believe there was the BC kind of evil in this world.

 

[tresir2012]

I’m not going to lie I did t follow this case closely. Did he out right name and threaten YingYing or just vaguely stated homicidal ideations?

No it was random. He had tried to get another woman in his car first. She didn't get in.