Found Deceased Netherlands - Anne Faber, 25, Utrecht, 28 Sept 2017 *Arrest*

[ZaZara]

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Man who stabbed his wife to death in Rijswijk freed for the time being, next of kin are flabbergasted


Abdelmajid I. (48), who stabbed his wife to death in Rijswijk on 14 July 2016, is free for the time being. The court had previously sentenced him to years of imprisonment and a forced T.B.S. treatment.

On 14 July 2016, the Iraqi Kurd stabbed his Russian wife Albina (38) to death with fourteen knife punches in a paranoid delusion in their house on the Professor Quacklaan in Rijswijk. The children were at home. They now live with Russian family.

The court recently suspended him, so that Abdelmajid I. is free to await the outcome of his appeal. This is scheduled for June of this year. As a result, he was imprisoned for about two and a half years of the seven years imposed on him by the court, apart from being admitted to a tbs clinic.

The court's decision is invariably seen as a trade-off warning. It has become a lot less likely that I. will shortly disappear behind closed doors.

Next of kin don't understand it, their lawyer Heleen over de Linden says. "If the perpetrator had such problems at the time, then it seems highly questionable tp me that these have now been solved."

It's July 14, 2016, just after 11:00 hrs. From the house of the neighbors in the neat neighborhood in Rijswijk a horrible scream is heard. A couple lives there with three children. He, an Iraqi Kurd, she, Albina, a Russian. The children were given Dutch-sounding names.

The father of the neighbour, who happens to be visiting, wants to climb the fence of the garden in a reflex to help. "But he notices the bloody neighbor with a feral look in his eyes and decides not to intervene himself," recalls another neighbor. She still often thinks of the family tragedy. Police came all at high speed into the street and officers entered the house with guns pulled. Moments later the father, covered in blood, was led out of the house."

The officers found the woman bleeding heavily in the kitchen. She was resuscitated for an hour and a half and fifteen bags of blood were given to her. But the mother, who had breastfed her youngest child just before the violence of her husband, could not be saved.

Until two years before, she and I. had formed a beautiful family. He had a butcher's shop on the Hillenaarsplantsoen. But financial problems had arisen, the butcher's shop had to close down. He had to go into debt restructuring. The relationship had also come under pressure. I. smoked more and more weed, became paranoid.

In the morning of the 14th of July they had a fight in the kitchen. For fear of 'the secret power', the 48-year-old father wanted to lock the doors. But the children had to go to school, she had said. Did she have to cut them into pieces so that they could go through the mailbox? All the Kurd remembers is that he threw a bottle of olive oil at her and grabbed a knife. Only when he sees the knife sticking out of her chest does he come to his senses.

The two other children, aged four and six, are in the living room, hearing the screams of their mother. The 4-year-old boy is so scared that he hides half under the couch and pulls a curtain over him.

Psychiatrists treat them intensively until they move to Russia. There they now live with their mother's family and receive the similar treatments.

I.'s attorney had asked for the suspension. He responds well to medication, is motivated to get treatment and can live with his brother, she pleaded. At the court, the lawyer who was assisting him at the time stated that I. was 'very psychotic' at the time of his act. He would have been completely unaccountable and therefore should not be given a prison sentence. A forced admission would not be necessary.

A psychologist and psychiatrist who examined him at the time saw that he had acted in a paranoid delusion, might have PTSD and a personality disorder, but stated that he was only 'less accountable'. The court went along with this line. I. was therefore sentenced to imprisonment in addition to tbs.

On appeal, I.'s lawyer asked for a counter-analysis. According to a spokesman of the Public Prosecutor's Office, this report was not yet ready when the Court of Justice came up with its decision.

No one in the neighbourhood has yet heard that the man is no longer in prison, but lives with his brother in Delft. The sentiment that dominates the Professor Quackstraat is that there are only losers in the drama. The father was loved in the neighbourhood. As far as the local residents were in contact with him. "But he always greeted and we saw him walking with the children."

If only there had been earlier intervention in the family, it is said. Exactly what his lawyer claims before the court, the lawyer literally blames the mental health service for everything. Because one month before the horrible stabbing, the father had reported himself a few times to the general practitioner and the emergency ward of Parnassia. And three days before the deadly attack on his wife, the crisis team had come home to talk to him. "But he was not admitted," the lawyer says during the trial.

The man is now free because he reacts well to his medication and is motivated to be treated. The court therefore sees no reason to let Abdelmajid I. wait in prison for his appeal to be dealt with on 26 June. The court of appeal is not allowed to give a requested further explanation of the decision.

One of the conditions for his release is that he must report to the probation service. The conditions do not stipulate that he has to be checked for his drug use. Smoking cannabis is a well-known trigger for causing psychosis.

According to a spokesman, the Public Prosecution has 'fiercely resisted'. In view of the conviction, there was no reason to suspend him, all the more so because behavioural counter-investigation into his mental faculties of the time had not yet been completed.

Experts say that the decision of the court of appeal is an indication of how the court will eventually rule: it does not seem obvious that the man will have to go back to prison after all, or that a forced hospitalisation in a tbs clinic is waiting for him, as the court previously ruled.

The parents of Albina in Russia are shocked by the course of events. "This is absurd! It doesn't matter in what condition he stabbed his wife to death, the deed doesn't get any less. In Russia this is impossible," they react via Heleen over de Linden, their family law lawyer and interpreter.

"A criminal who stabs his wife in the kitchen with a meat knife while the children are in the living room and who may have run to see what the screams were about, is now released after a net two and a half years after his deed. As if he had stolen a loaf of bread from the baker's," they write indignantly from Russia.

"What does it matter in what condition he has stabbed his wife to death, the deed does not become any less for the sake of that."

Even after stabbing his wife to death, he laughed at himself in the mirror and said something like: this was supposed to happen. In any case, the mental health of an offender in Russia does not have the effect of shortening the sentence, but rather of prolonging it because people are afraid of such a person. Apparently in the Netherlands no account is taken of the grief and anxiety of the next of kin.

"In Russia, the system of TBS is unknown. We were therefore not familiar with how this could work out. Of course in Russia a prisoner is also checked for his mental health, but that doesn't mean that mental health will be separated from the crime."

Job Knoester, a renowned tbs lawyer from Scheveningen, understands that the situation is unsatisfactory and unbearable for the next of kin. "But if he can't be blamed for something because of an illness or a disorder, you can't punish him for it." Knoester would have liked to know more about the motivation of the court. "Now it just says that he's doing better."

The public debate about people with major psychological problems who are at large is more relevant than ever. Bart van U., who killed former minister Els Borst. The Syrian Malek who stabbed random people in a 'religious psychosis' in The Hague. Michael P. who raped and killed Anne Faber. The tram shooter in Utrecht. How could this happen is always the question.

But according to Knoester, "it is really time for society to wake up a little. I understand, I understand the frustration of all those parents. But you know, politics and society have to stop suggesting that you can create a 100 percent safe society. I think you're at the limit with the tbs system. The repetition rates are three to four times better than for people from prison. We're not going to get it any better than that. Will this be a 100% guarantee of zero errors? No, I don't think so. Thatt doesn't exist, nobody can fix it."

The court in The Hague is a 'very strict court', he says. "If this court thinks that there is no risk, in this day and age, then they must have really good grounds. The court really isn't crazy. The court also sees and hears all the debates. It's just a shame you don't read this in the decision."

Albina's parents are anxiously waiting to see what will happen in June. They keep hope. "We are relying on a sensible court that will confirm the ruling of the court in the first instance."


BBM


Trust us. it is all for the best and it could not be better.

I don't know how they do it and manage to get away with it every time. These are the ones letting the criminals out in the streets and then they tell without blinking an eye that you cannot have a 100% safe society. Everyone knows you cannot have a 100% safe society. The question was: why do you let them out?

 

[Blue Girl1991]

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Man who stabbed his wife to death in Rijswijk freed for the time being, next of kin are flabbergasted


Abdelmajid I. (48), who stabbed his wife to death in Rijswijk on 14 July 2016, is free for the time being. The court had previously sentenced him to years of imprisonment and a forced T.B.S. treatment.

On 14 July 2016, the Iraqi Kurd stabbed his Russian wife Albina (38) to death with fourteen knife punches in a paranoid delusion in their house on the Professor Quacklaan in Rijswijk. The children were at home. They now live with Russian family.

The court recently suspended him, so that Abdelmajid I. is free to await the outcome of his appeal. This is scheduled for June of this year. As a result, he was imprisoned for about two and a half years of the seven years imposed on him by the court, apart from being admitted to a tbs clinic.

The court's decision is invariably seen as a trade-off warning. It has become a lot less likely that I. will shortly disappear behind closed doors.

Next of kin don't understand it, their lawyer Heleen over de Linden says. "If the perpetrator had such problems at the time, then it seems highly questionable tp me that these have now been solved."

It's July 14, 2016, just after 11:00 hrs. From the house of the neighbors in the neat neighborhood in Rijswijk a horrible scream is heard. A couple lives there with three children. He, an Iraqi Kurd, she, Albina, a Russian. The children were given Dutch-sounding names.

The father of the neighbour, who happens to be visiting, wants to climb the fence of the garden in a reflex to help. "But he notices the bloody neighbor with a feral look in his eyes and decides not to intervene himself," recalls another neighbor. She still often thinks of the family tragedy. Police came all at high speed into the street and officers entered the house with guns pulled. Moments later the father, covered in blood, was led out of the house."

The officers found the woman bleeding heavily in the kitchen. She was resuscitated for an hour and a half and fifteen bags of blood were given to her. But the mother, who had breastfed her youngest child just before the violence of her husband, could not be saved.

Until two years before, she and I. had formed a beautiful family. He had a butcher's shop on the Hillenaarsplantsoen. But financial problems had arisen, the butcher's shop had to close down. He had to go into debt restructuring. The relationship had also come under pressure. I. smoked more and more weed, became paranoid.

In the morning of the 14th of July they had a fight in the kitchen. For fear of 'the secret power', the 48-year-old father wanted to lock the doors. But the children had to go to school, she had said. Did she have to cut them into pieces so that they could go through the mailbox? All the Kurd remembers is that he threw a bottle of olive oil at her and grabbed a knife. Only when he sees the knife sticking out of her chest does he come to his senses.

The two other children, aged four and six, are in the living room, hearing the screams of their mother. The 4-year-old boy is so scared that he hides half under the couch and pulls a curtain over him.

Psychiatrists treat them intensively until they move to Russia. There they now live with their mother's family and receive the similar treatments.

I.'s attorney had asked for the suspension. He responds well to medication, is motivated to get treatment and can live with his brother, she pleaded. At the court, the lawyer who was assisting him at the time stated that I. was 'very psychotic' at the time of his act. He would have been completely unaccountable and therefore should not be given a prison sentence. A forced admission would not be necessary.

A psychologist and psychiatrist who examined him at the time saw that he had acted in a paranoid delusion, might have PTSD and a personality disorder, but stated that he was only 'less accountable'. The court went along with this line. I. was therefore sentenced to imprisonment in addition to tbs.

On appeal, I.'s lawyer asked for a counter-analysis. According to a spokesman of the Public Prosecutor's Office, this report was not yet ready when the Court of Justice came up with its decision.

No one in the neighbourhood has yet heard that the man is no longer in prison, but lives with his brother in Delft. The sentiment that dominates the Professor Quackstraat is that there are only losers in the drama. The father was loved in the neighbourhood. As far as the local residents were in contact with him. "But he always greeted and we saw him walking with the children."

If only there had been earlier intervention in the family, it is said. Exactly what his lawyer claims before the court, the lawyer literally blames the mental health service for everything. Because one month before the horrible stabbing, the father had reported himself a few times to the general practitioner and the emergency ward of Parnassia. And three days before the deadly attack on his wife, the crisis team had come home to talk to him. "But he was not admitted," the lawyer says during the trial.

The man is now free because he reacts well to his medication and is motivated to be treated. The court therefore sees no reason to let Abdelmajid I. wait in prison for his appeal to be dealt with on 26 June. The court of appeal is not allowed to give a requested further explanation of the decision.

One of the conditions for his release is that he must report to the probation service. The conditions do not stipulate that he has to be checked for his drug use. Smoking cannabis is a well-known trigger for causing psychosis.

According to a spokesman, the Public Prosecution has 'fiercely resisted'. In view of the conviction, there was no reason to suspend him, all the more so because behavioural counter-investigation into his mental faculties of the time had not yet been completed.

Experts say that the decision of the court of appeal is an indication of how the court will eventually rule: it does not seem obvious that the man will have to go back to prison after all, or that a forced hospitalisation in a tbs clinic is waiting for him, as the court previously ruled.

The parents of Albina in Russia are shocked by the course of events. "This is absurd! It doesn't matter in what condition he stabbed his wife to death, the deed doesn't get any less. In Russia this is impossible," they react via Heleen over de Linden, their family law lawyer and interpreter.

"A criminal who stabs his wife in the kitchen with a meat knife while the children are in the living room and who may have run to see what the screams were about, is now released after a net two and a half years after his deed. As if he had stolen a loaf of bread from the baker's," they write indignantly from Russia.

"What does it matter in what condition he has stabbed his wife to death, the deed does not become any less for the sake of that."

Even after stabbing his wife to death, he laughed at himself in the mirror and said something like: this was supposed to happen. In any case, the mental health of an offender in Russia does not have the effect of shortening the sentence, but rather of prolonging it because people are afraid of such a person. Apparently in the Netherlands no account is taken of the grief and anxiety of the next of kin.

"In Russia, the system of TBS is unknown. We were therefore not familiar with how this could work out. Of course in Russia a prisoner is also checked for his mental health, but that doesn't mean that mental health will be separated from the crime."

Job Knoester, a renowned tbs lawyer from Scheveningen, understands that the situation is unsatisfactory and unbearable for the next of kin. "But if he can't be blamed for something because of an illness or a disorder, you can't punish him for it." Knoester would have liked to know more about the motivation of the court. "Now it just says that he's doing better."

The public debate about people with major psychological problems who are at large is more relevant than ever. Bart van U., who killed former minister Els Borst. The Syrian Malek who stabbed random people in a 'religious psychosis' in The Hague. Michael P. who raped and killed Anne Faber. The tram shooter in Utrecht. How could this happen is always the question.

But according to Knoester, "it is really time for society to wake up a little. I understand, I understand the frustration of all those parents. But you know, politics and society have to stop suggesting that you can create a 100 percent safe society. I think you're at the limit with the tbs system. The repetition rates are three to four times better than for people from prison. We're not going to get it any better than that. Will this be a 100% guarantee of zero errors? No, I don't think so. Thatt doesn't exist, nobody can fix it."

The court in The Hague is a 'very strict court', he says. "If this court thinks that there is no risk, in this day and age, then they must have really good grounds. The court really isn't crazy. The court also sees and hears all the debates. It's just a shame you don't read this in the decision."

Albina's parents are anxiously waiting to see what will happen in June. They keep hope. "We are relying on a sensible court that will confirm the ruling of the court in the first instance."


BBM


Trust us. it is all for the best and it could not be better.

I don't know how they do it and manage to get away with it every time. These are the ones letting the criminals out in the streets and then they tell without blinking an eye that you cannot have a 100% safe society. Everyone knows you cannot have a 100% safe society. The question was: why do you let them out?

These kind of news makes me so sick , the legal systems never learn a lesson,
there are so many cases where people have been murdered after such monsters have been released, why there is such mercy for these murderers and the desire to consider them by the system ??

In cases like that the legal system simply commits crimes against innocent people, there is no other way to describe this.What about justice for Albina?
I can't imagine what her family feel when they know that this evil man is free, It's infuriating and so frustrating.

 

[ZaZara]

These kind of news makes me so sick , the legal systems never learn a lesson,
there are so many cases where people have been murdered after such monsters have been released, why there is such mercy for these murderers and the desire to consider them by the system ??

In cases like that the legal system simply commits crimes against innocent people, there is no other way to describe this.What about justice for Albina?
I can't imagine what her family feel when they know that this evil man is free, It's infuriating and so frustrating.

Edit


Buckle up @Blue Girl1991 here we go again. This TBS-system is a toxic gift that keeps on giving:

Moordverdachte is ex-tbs’er

Arrested man is classified as extremely dangerous.
Murder suspect is ex-TBSs'er

Lelystad - A 48-year-old man who was arrested on Monday for the murder of a 72-year-old man in Lelystad turns out to be a TBS'er who was treated in a clinic for a long time. He was given TBS for involvement in a murder attempt.

Several sources report this to De Telegraaf. The police and the Public Prosecutor's Office in the Central Netherlands neither confirm nor deny the man's tbs past.

The man involved is said to be the extremely dangerous Jan van K. He had already gone wrong before during a trial leave from the Van Mesdagkliniek in Groningen, after he had been given TBS for an attempted murder.

In 2005, when he was convicted of another attempted murder, the public prosecutor spoke of an 'obvious error of judgement'. He had completely misled his therapists.

On Sunday 28 April, the police received a report of a possible crime in Lelystad. Later that day, the detectives arrived at a house on the Rode Klif. The police found the body of the 72-year-old resident in the house.

A large team of detectives investigates his violent death. In that investigation, the 48-year-old man from Lelystad emerged. He is suspected of possible involvement in the man's death. The police are calling for witnesses.


BBM



gone wrong during trial leave ... another attempted murder ... obvious error of judgement ... completely misled his therapists...

Haven't we heard it all before?




More details emerging:

Roof motief ’tbs-moord’ Lelystad

The police and the judiciary have reacted with great consternation to the arrest of Jan van K., who had been in TBS clinics since 1997. In 1993 and 2005 he was given tbs for two attempted murders. Van K. is considered life-threatening. It is unclear how long he was at liberty.

In 2005, the Public Prosecution Service said that it was incomprehensible to the Court of Leeuwarden that Van K. had been sent on probationary leave by his practitioners at the Van Mesdag clinic in Groningen. Van K. had completely deceived them.

During his trial leave, he ordered a cousin to kill his own girlfriend. The homosexual Van K. wanted to have a relationship with his nephew and the woman stood in the way of that desire. The nephew stuck his own girlfriend in the neck while she was asleep. She only barely survived the horrible attack. Van K. was then given eight years and a new TBS.


BBM


We'll add with great consternation... and unclear how long... to the list.

 

[ZaZara]

Tbs-duo kon vrijuit moorden

Police suspects mentally ill convicts in Lelystad
TBS-duo was able to kill freely

LELYSTAD - With the arrest of two TBS'ers for the murder of a 72-year-old man from Lelystad, there seems to have been another colossal misjudgment about two men who were convicted of a serious crime.

On Monday, 48-year-old Jan van K. was arrested for the murder of 72-year-old Gerrit Thomassen, who was found dead in his house. Van K. had been in a TBS clinic almost non-stop since 1997. In 2003, after treatment, he went wrong again on probationary leave and was only recently released.

The second suspect Michael B. (35), who is said to have been in the victim's house with Van K., also has a TBS background. He is being treated in the Oostvaarders TBS-clinic in Almere. Van K. was also here. By the way, victim Thomassen, who, just like the two suspects, has a TBS history, also stayed here.

The motive for the man's murder is possible robbery. One of the suspects reported this to a witness. He tipped off the police.

The arrests this week seriously embarrass Minister Dekker. At the beginning of April he survived a debate about the errors around Michael P. and shortly after that he became discredited again when a tbs'er was arrested who was trading in firearms from a clinic.

Coalition party VVD wants its fellow party member Dekker to be firmly put to the test. "It's impossible to explain", sighs MP Van Wijngaarden. According to him, dangerous cases belong in the so-called longstay department, where they are not given any freedom. "It should be possible to place tbs in a heavier regime more often. It is too late for the next of kin, but we want to discuss this with the minister before the summer."

Mrs Kuiken, a member of the Dutch Labour Party (PvdA), also wants an explanation. "If this man can strike for the third time, the system fails horribly."


BBM


The first perp had been released.
The second perp was still being treated.
Before Anne Faber, this would have been small news.

 

[Blue Girl1991]

Edit


Buckle up @Blue Girl1991 here we go again. This TBS-system is a toxic gift that keeps on giving:

Moordverdachte is ex-tbs’er

Arrested man is classified as extremely dangerous.
Murder suspect is ex-TBSs'er

Lelystad - A 48-year-old man who was arrested on Monday for the murder of a 72-year-old man in Lelystad turns out to be a TBS'er who was treated in a clinic for a long time. He was given TBS for involvement in a murder attempt.

Several sources report this to De Telegraaf. The police and the Public Prosecutor's Office in the Central Netherlands neither confirm nor deny the man's tbs past.

The man involved is said to be the extremely dangerous Jan van K. He had already gone wrong before during a trial leave from the Van Mesdagkliniek in Groningen, after he had been given TBS for an attempted murder.

In 2005, when he was convicted of another attempted murder, the public prosecutor spoke of an 'obvious error of judgement'. He had completely misled his therapists.

On Sunday 28 April, the police received a report of a possible crime in Lelystad. Later that day, the detectives arrived at a house on the Rode Klif. The police found the body of the 72-year-old resident in the house.

A large team of detectives investigates his violent death. In that investigation, the 48-year-old man from Lelystad emerged. He is suspected of possible involvement in the man's death. The police are calling for witnesses.


BBM



gone wrong during trial leave ... another attempted murder ... obvious error of judgement ... completely misled his therapists...

Haven't we heard it all before?




More details emerging:

Roof motief ’tbs-moord’ Lelystad

The police and the judiciary have reacted with great consternation to the arrest of Jan van K., who had been in TBS clinics since 1997. In 1993 and 2005 he was given tbs for two attempted murders. Van K. is considered life-threatening. It is unclear how long he was at liberty.

In 2005, the Public Prosecution Service said that it was incomprehensible to the Court of Leeuwarden that Van K. had been sent on probationary leave by his practitioners at the Van Mesdag clinic in Groningen. Van K. had completely deceived them.

During his trial leave, he ordered a cousin to kill his own girlfriend. The homosexual Van K. wanted to have a relationship with his nephew and the woman stood in the way of that desire. The nephew stuck his own girlfriend in the neck while she was asleep. She only barely survived the horrible attack. Van K. was then given eight years and a new TBS.


BBM


We'll add with great consternation... and unclear how long... to the list.

ZaZara, it's really hard to find the words anymore when you read repeatedly about these atrocities committed by the murderers and on the crimes by the system against innocent people, I wonder ,is human life so unimportant in the eyes of the legal system? the Judges and the system, are they aware that their beloved ones can also suffer by the criminals they released?

I just can't understand, What is behind this behavior in which criminals are free to murder at will, and if there are those who have not Succeeded , they get a second chance to do so , It's Insane and so outrageous.

 

[ZaZara]

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APPEAL -LIVE - Mother of Anne Faber to murderer Michael P.: "I have life imprisonment."

Michael P., sentenced to 28 years in prison and TBS for raping and killing Anne Faber last year, says he will kill himself if his sentence remains this high. "There's always a way to get pills." The Court of Appeal in Arnhem is hearing an appeal today in the case "in which P. is contesting his conviction, but where Anne's next of kin also have their say." The Public Prosecutor demands again 28 years imprisonment and TBS. He says that recurrence must be prevented at all costs.
Crime reporter Yelle Tieleman is present and reports.

P. stares in motionlessly into the distance when lawyer Ruth Jager takes the floor on behalf of the next of kin. They do not believe his statements about the rape and the way in which Anne died. Jager states that P. 'has immersed himself in his own story'. "He has proven to be a master of seduction and is not honest. Anne's parents and brother are convinced that P. deliberately killed her, but was nevertheless not convicted for murder. He has outsmarted the whole system," Jager says. "This is such a cunning man."

Anne's father, Wim Faber, calls for an independent investigation into a previous conviction of P. in 2012. Then, according to him, the first mistakes were made. 'Judiciary, take your responsibility', reminds Faber. He points out the pain Anne must have experienced 'in agony', the humiliations and the violence used. According to the father, it is unacceptable that P., who 'will always remain dangerous', should ever be released. "I find it inhuman having to live with the idea." And he continues emphatically: "P. should never be released."

"My sister was raped, tortured and murdered by Michael P. He consciously chose not to be treated, the shortest route to freedom,'' Anne's brother Rogier fulminates.
P. would deliberately choose to portray himself as someone who has been harmed by everything. "We are left with a void in our soul." It is feared that P. will apply in cassation against a new conviction. Rogier realizes that life imprisonment or a long sentence with TBS do not guarantee that P. will never be released. "Make sure that this pathological killer is never released again. Do something about it!''

Mother Elze would have 'liked to close the case'. "I still expect a little app from Anne every day and over and over again I realize that this will never happen again." Now she has had to throw herself into the files about her daughter's agony once again. "Pure injustice," it sounds from her mouth. The mother also doubts the reliability of P.'s words. "Is it allowed to behave inhumanely and to demand that you yourself be treated humanely?" the woman asks herself in pain. "I will never be really happy again. I have life imprisonment. There's only one person for whom I wish the same."

Lawyer Sébas Diekstra spoke earlier today on behalf of Anne's boyfriend. "For his well-being it is irresponsible to be here in person'', according to the lawyer. The appeal has caused the man, who has always been kept out of the publicity, a lot of extra suffering," Diekstra said. "It has almost hijacked the deep impact of his personal drama.' The fact that he even came into the picture as a possible perpetrator also had traumatic consequences for him. The confrontation with the mortal remains as well. Terrible. Inhumane, in fact."

"The extreme loss of Anne as a person and partner is still experienced daily by the client in many ways. Her influence on his life was great and multifaceted, her unconditional love a gift." Anne's friend, through the lawyer, indicated that an appeal should not be rewarded. He insists on life imprisonment and urges the court to protect 'society as long as possible, but preferably definitively' from P.. P. responded to Diekstra's words and says: "It's awful for that boy, how he has to go through life now. That moves me too."

Anne Faber's killer believes that he did not have a fair first trial, because the media and politics put pressure on the court. This resulted in a higher sentence. He also still has physical problems because of his treatment during the arrest. The police, he says, used force to find out where Anne was as soon as possible. That should have given him a reduction in his sentence, but the judge did not agree.

He sticks to his previous confession, although 'not always logical', and admits to having raped and killed Anne Faber. "In my head, everything was a danger,'' P. answered when asked why he didn't let Anne go but killed her. He became annoyed when Advocate General Jan-Willem Grimbergen persisted: "Did that happen by accident?'' According to the AG, there is nothing to indicate that P. wanted to let Anne go. "I can't prove it'', P. replied. "I haven't consciously taken her life.''

The court indicated that P. gave the impression that everything 'happened to him'. "As if you put the blame outside yourself,'' the chairman said.
P.: "I act rather than think about it. That's how I am.'' Although her death was an 'impulsive act', P. acknowledged having cleaned Anne's body before burying it. He said he had been thinking, when he took off Anne's clothes. "I have no logical explanation for it. I've acted.''

His recollection left him today as soon as it concerned Anne's injuries. These turned out to be much more serious than he said he had inflicted. "I don't remember it that way. Have also seen on photographs that it's more serious.'' Not the deployment of a well-known police officer from Zeewolde, but a radio broadcast led P. to confess where Anne's body was buried. When he heard that Anne's parents expected not to see their daughter alive again, he decided 'that this should come to an end'.

"It's true, the facts don't lie'', P. replied to the Court's question as to how he looked at himself. "A 29-year-old with a series of convictions for serious offences'', the president said. "I simply have problems and then do terrible things,'' P. explained, he says he is often aggressive. Research that the Pieter Baan Centre did on him indicates that too. His threshold to resort to violence is low. Revenge, suspicion and paranoia also play a role. A sexual disorder has not been established, but cannot be excluded either.

P. is annoyed by the attitude of the Public Prosecutor's Office and the investigative authorities. "They haven't been there." Even now he has the feeling that his punishment has already been determined. "A mock trial'', P.says. He has calculated that he will be 67 when he is released. He won't let it come to that. "Then I'll put an end to it, there's always a way to get pills." He brushes aside the remark that he is not talking about Anne's next of kin. "For the first time in my life I have put something on paper,'' he spoke with emotion, as he pulled out a note. "I know when Anne's birthday is. Then I wonder if the family is sitting together. Every day I'm preoccupied with those things."


BBM

 

[ZaZara]

APPEAL - Tweets by court reporter Yelle Tieleman

Yelle Tieleman (@YelleTieleman) | Twitter

President Mintjes of the Court of Justice has opened the session. She tells us that today Anne's parents, brother and friend will be using the right to speak.

Since the directing session, new documents have come in. These include a new statement by a witness, and reports from the Pieter Baan Centre. These will be discussed today.

Michael P. is given the floor, but says that he does not want to take the floor. According to P., he was wronged in the first trial, as a result of which there was media and political pressure on the court to achieve a high prison sentence.

Also, Michael P. did not take any medication this time, contrary to the first trial. "I'm sober now," P says.

Michael P. does not go back on his earlier confession and admits that he raped and killed Anne Faber. In general, he sticks to his earlier statements.

The statements made by P. correspond in many ways with the investigation of the criminal investigation. "But on some points they don't,"the President of the Court says. The questions on this subject are going to be asked again by the Court today. "Even though it may irritate you."

Investigations have shown that P.'s phone was switched off at two times during the evening in question. Deliberately turned off, or was the phone stalling? According to P., the phone was malfunctioning. Family members know that the phone often had malfunctions. An old phone.

The fact that the phone was thrown away after Anne's murder has nothing to do with the murder, according to P..

The president of the Court wants to know if P. really didn't see what happened to Anne's earrings and necklace. "Where did those earrings go," the chairman asks. "I really don't know," says Michael P. "What should I have done with them?"

The chairman goes through all the open questions at a rapid pace. Now it's about P. declaring that he intended to let Anne go. Why didn't he do it? "In my head, everything was a danger at that time."

Michael P. says he understands that his explanations to the police and next of kin sometimes don't make sense. "It was a suspicion, a paranoia and I was suspicious. That's why I took a different route."

Why did he take off Anne's clothes? "I didn't think, I acted," says P. "I don't have a logical explanation for this. I have acted."

The injuries found on Anne's body are much more serious than Michael P. claims to have inflicted. "I don't remember it that way. I've also seen in photographs that it's more serious." According to P., his memory may fail him.

A good friend of Michael P.'s at the clinic in Den Dolder was additionally interrogated by the examining magistrate. "Shall we grab her, but then she must die," Michael would have said to him. "That is complete nonsense, I never said that."

That would have happened when the two of them were in the woods at the clinic and saw a woman jogging. Michael P. strongly denies that, and says that the witness and he weren't as good friends as is claimed.

(...)

The hearing of the facts surrounding Anne's murder is closed. Now it's about the assault on employees of the PBC, when he was staying there for a personality investigation. Despite a bite wound that was found, P. says he didn't bite.

Michael P. has filed a complaint against the policemen who arrested him. That was dismissed, but P. started Article 12 proceedings to enforce prosecution. P. still says he has complaints about his shoulder. "It's not going to be the way it was."

P.: "In the Netherlands we have rules and rights. I am punished for that. But when officers and police officers make mistakes, and there are no consequences for that. If nothing is done about that, it means a licence for public prosecutors to do as they please."

(...)

Michael P. gives another sneer to the clinic in Den Dolder. "They didn't see anything. When I was covered in mud and sludge, they didn't see anything. There was drugs. They saw nothing."

The AG discusses his use of medication. What effect does that have? "That I hold myself back very much. I could have just come at you during our conversation. See how far I could have come before he (pointing to the parquet police) intervened.

That was a tough exchange of words. Michael P. looked at the Advocate General with small, narrowed eyes.

(...)

The floor is given to lawyer Ruth Jager, the lawyer of the next of kin. She argues that P. has immersed himself into his story. He has proven to be a master of seduction. But this suspect is not honest, he has said he can put on a mask.

Jager discusses the points in P.'s statements that, according to Anne's next of kin, are not correct or could be true. This includes the way in which Anne was killed and the traces found on Anne's clothing.

The next of kin don't believe Michael's explanations, they think he's lying about the way he cut her throat. They don't believe his explanations about the rape either. The statement that things were 'just' going on is refuted by research.

The next of kin do not believe that Michael P. does not know where Anne's jewellery is. A junkie doesn't bury a body with golden earrings. Michael P. remains motionless and stares at the table in front of him.

Jager emphasises once again that Anne's relatives are eager to know what really happened to Anne and where her jewellery has gone.

The large number of bruises (46) found on Anne's body cannot have been caused by 'that one punch' that P. delivered, as he has explained. How is it possible that he does not have an answer to this question, Jager wonders.

All the doctors and experts who dealt with P. at the clinic in Den Dolder indicated that they were totally flabbergasted by the fact that he was responsible for what had happened to Anne. They have been fooled.

"He has outsmarted the whole system," lawyer Jager says. According to her, Michael P. had smuggled medicine into the court during the 2018 trial. Even then he outsmarted the system, says Jager. "This man is so cunning."

Anne Faber's parents and brother are convinced that Michael P. deliberately killed their Anne. Yet P. was acquitted in the first instance for murder, when a preconceived plan to kill Anne could not be proven.

According to Jager, Michael P. did have time to reflect. He has used systematic, deliberate and instrumental violence to achieve his goal. As far as the next of kin are concerned, murder can therefore be proven.

Jager: "This suspect does not know empathy. This suspect has no compassion." According to her, P. never intended to let Anne go. Even though he had a lot of time to think. "He was acting purposefully and systematically."


BBM


More to follow.

 

[ZaZara]

APPEAL - Tweets of reporter Yelle Tieleman, continued.

Yelle Tieleman (@YelleTieleman) | Twitter

The Advocate General will now begin his indictment, with the penalty at the end. We expect to hear it in an hour's time.

AG: 'Few people in the Netherlands will not know Anne's name. The pain and sorrow of the family and friends remain great. They are still confronted with the loss on a daily basis. Feelings of insecurity have also been fuelled in society.

"Anne was a lively woman who was fully involved in life. A young woman who knew what she wanted. She wanted to become the managing director of a large museum. A beautiful and promising life has been nipped in the bud," the AG says.

"The suspect has expressed regret, but it is difficult to say what that is worth. Also in view of the fact that he has appealed," the Advocate General says. The serious issue is that even now there are no answers given to legitimate questions from the family, the AG says.

According to the Advocate General, Michael P. does not tell the whole story: "Maybe the wry observation should be that the truth will never be known, because the defendant does not want to disclose the facts."

The AG discusses the additional statement made by a witness. He said, when he and Michael saw a woman jogging, that Michael would like to rape her. 'But then we have to kill her too', Michael would have said.

Michael P. was acquitted in the first instance for murder, but qualified manslaughter has been proven. Both are punishable by life imprisonment or the longest possible temporary imprisonment of 30 years.

The AG now quotes from statements of witnesses from the clinic in Den Dolder. 'When I'm free again, I'll finish one'. When Michael P. hears that, he vehemently nods 'no'.

The Advocate General believes that P. himself has twice turned off his phone on the night of the murder. P. says that the phone was switched off and had malfunctions. However, the investigation showed that this was not the case.

The Advocate General also thinks that Michael P. was waiting for her at the place where he and Anne had a collision. According to him, this indicates a preconceived plan. A planned action.

In addition, P. had a knife and tiewraps with him. No attributes you use for the demolition work he said he was going to do, in the old kitchen on the grounds of the clinic. However, these were fit for murderous plans.

Unlike the Public Prosecutor's Office in the first instance, the Advocate General believes that premeditation in Michael P.'s case, and thus murder, is proven. This does not make any difference to the level of punishment. For qualified manslaughter the same penalties apply.

The Advocate General now discusses the circumstances surrounding the arrest of Michael P. 'The course of events surrounding his arrest should not prevail," the AG says.

"If anything is torture, it is that which has happened to Anne," the Advocate General says. That Michael P. claims to have been tortured by the arrest team is nonsense, according to the AG.

The Advocate General also points out that despite the harsh arrest of Michael P., no confession has been enforced by the arrest team. As a result, there was no question of a breach of form and his right to a fair trial was not at issue.

We now come to the penalty. The Advocate General is now working towards this.

The Advocate General says that recurrence must be prevented at all costs. But what is the best punishment? For life, or a long prison sentence with TBS? After all, life is no longer automatically lifelong. After 25 years, an opinion will now follow.

On appeal, the Advocate General demands another 28 years imprisonment and TBS.

For now, the hearing is over. Tomorrow at 9.30 am the lawyers of Michael P. (Sander de Korte and Niels Dorrestein) will be given the floor.


BBM


TBS! because that has worked so well the previous times!
Only acceptable TBS would be the longstay #TeamFaberFamily

 

[Elainera]

He has calculated that he will be 67 when he is released. He won't let it come to that. "Then I'll put an end to it, there's always a way to get pills."

I think this would be the best way forward.

 

[ZaZara]

APPEAL - DAY 2 - Tweet by Yelle Tieleman, crime reporter

Yelle Tieleman on Twitter

The second day of the appeal in the #AnneFaber case begins at 9.30 am. The two lawyers of Michael P. will then start their plea. They are expected to need more than an hour to do so. In the end of the day the last word will be for Michael P. himself.

Michael P. has put something on paper 'for the first time in his life', he said yesterday. In the statement he wants to tell what the case has done to him.

Lawyers Dorrestein and De Korte will plead for a reduction of the sentence. On the one hand because they are of the opinion that Michael P.'s arrest did not go according to the rules. On the other hand, because the sentence imposed is too high in comparison with similar cases.

The three judges of @Hof_Arnh_Leeuw are now here. Michael P. is also here. This time dressed in a red and black shirt. Now it's up to Sander de Korte, who's going to start with the plea.

The Court has just announced that it will give its verdict on 5 July, at 10.00 am.
Correction: 14.00.

De Korte emphasises that he too had hoped that an appeal would not have been necessary. But the sentence of 28 years is too high. Hence the appeal. P. has been acquitted of premeditated murder, De Korte agrees -of course- with that.

Did Michael P. deliberately switch off his phone prior to Anne's murder, or was there a malfunction? According to De Korte the latter is the case. The Public Prosecutor's Office states that P. himself has switched off his phone.

On internet forums complaints abound about malfunctions of phones similar to those of Michael P. says De Korte.

He continues with the route that Michael P. took. The OM states that P. has been waiting for Anne with his scooter. De Korte says that this is not the case, and that it cannot be proved according to the reconstructions made by the police.

De Korte also says that the statements of witnesses from the clinic in Den Dolder are not reliable. Witness Perry came forward at the end of the first trial. He said that P. made a remark about killing a jogging woman. This witness is unreliable.

According to De Korte, this witness wants to clear himself with his statement. According to De Korte, this witness himself was in the picture as a suspect in the case. Moreover, he was unable to give details about P.'s remarks.

The conclusion is that Michael P. should be acquitted of premeditated murder, De Korte states.

As for the mistreatment of the employees of the Pieter Baan Centre, Michael P. should also be partially acquitted. One of the employees would have been bitten, but a bite wound was not found, says De Korte.

De Korte emphasizes that Michael P. cooperated well in a personality investigation at the PBC. Recently, he also cooperated well in an investigation into his sexuality experience. P. has a personality disorder with anti-social features.

Niels Dorrestein now takes over from his colleague De Korte, and discusses the costs that have been claimed by the next of kin. This concerns costs for the funeral, and immaterial damage such as shock damage. In the first instance, a total of 136,000 euros was allocated.

According to Dorrestein, these claims are difficult to associate with criminal proceedings. According to him, this should be done by a civil judge. Earlier, @rechtbankMNL allocated an amount of 136,000 euros to Anne's parents and brother.

According to Dorrestein, the court in the first instance imposed an 'exceptionally high penalty'. The fact that life imprisonment has been considered is also unique, says Dorrestein. He wants a much lower sentence.

And the fact that Michael P. did not report to the police when Anne's disappearance became national news should not be allowed to have an aggravating effect on the punishment. The court has taken this attitude into account in its verdict. Wrongly, according to Dorrestein

In addition, Dorrestein disputes that Michael P. has been given a statement because the police confronted him with incriminating evidence. That's what he had in mind to do anyway, says Dorrestein. That day he made several attempts to reach me.

According to Dorrestein, Anne's body might never have been found if Michael P. hadn't started talking.

Dorrestein quotes the devastating reports of the Inspections and the Dutch Safety Board about the inadequate care in the PI and the clinic in Den Dolder.

In the clinic, P. was described as a 'model patient'. There is also no exchange of information between the PI Vught and the clinic. In this way, the clinic hardly receives any information about its past. And soon P. also gets a lot of freedom.

Dorrestein wants to say: the fact that so much went wrong in the clinic cannot be attributed to Michael P. 'He had no influence on that'.

Eyes cannot be closed to the mistakes that have been made by public authorities. This does not mean, however, that P. does not take responsibility for his own actions, says Dorrestein.

The fact that Michael P. cooperated in the investigation should be taken into account in the penalty, Dorrestein says.

The unprecedented media attention also plays a role, says Dorrestein. No less than three inspection reports, an emergency debate in the Lower House. The attention has negative consequences for P., because he is not well liked in prison.

According to Dorrestein, P. can barely receive visitors in prison, is not allowed to work and is accompanied by security guards. All as a result of media attention. Should be taken into account in the punishment.

In similar cases, the punishment was less severe. Dorrestein quotes the cases of Marianne Vaatstra and Nicole vd Hurk. In those cases, lower sentences were imposed. The Court of Appeal should join in, says P.'s lawyer.

Sander de Korte has taken the floor again. He discusses the actions of the arrest team that arrested Michael P.. The rules were violated and this should have the effect of reducing the sentence. This is a form of irreparable formal failure'.

P. was threatened in the van with a muzzled police dog, among other things. That dog would be let loose on him if P. did not disclose Anne's whereabouts. This is a very serious omission. This performance by the arrest team is not permitted.

That the @rechtbankMNL has established that mistakes were made by the arrest team. That this was not taken into account in the sentence, says De Korte. As far as De Korte is concerned, a punishment of 20 years and TBS would be more appropriate. The plea is now over.

We are going to suspend for an hour. At 12.00 hrs we continue. Then Advocate General Jan-Willem Grimbergen gives his reaction. Finally Michael P. gets the last word.

The session is resumed. The advocate-general of @OM_hoger beroep [ Prosecutor ] is given the floor. He will respond to the plea of Michael P.'s lawyers.

No, first lawyer Ruth Jager is allowed to respond on behalf of the next of kin. She explains why a requested compensation has to be paid.

Lawyer Dorrestein mentioned that Minister Dekker might want to pay compensation to the Faber family, because of the mistakes made. However, this is not an issue that has been raised, Jager.

The Advocate General has the floor in the meantime. He brushes aside the arguments of P.'s defence, and is of the opinion that premeditated murder can indeed be proven.

Advocate General: 'It is Michael P., and only Michael P. who has caused this enormous suffering'.

'This case is almost unsurpassed in horror', according to the Advocate General in response to the comparison that Michael P.'s lawyers make with other similar cases.

Advocate Dorrestein now responds to the points raised. This leaves Michael P. with the last word.

The last word is up to Michael P. He has taken a note with him, on which he has written a few words.

Michael P. addresses the Advocate General. Apologizes for his threat yesterday.

P.: 'I'm very sorry about the terrible acts I've committed. I know the family hates me. When I hear something about art, I wonder what she would have thought of it. I think it's terrible for them [ the family ] . I'm truly very sorry.'


BBM

 

[ZaZara]

Patiënt psychiatrische kliniek Den Dolder breekt in bij slijterij


A patient from the Fivoor psychiatric clinic in Den Dolder robbed the Gall and Gall liquor store this weekend after he walked out of the clinic. Supervisors wanted to stop him, but that was legally not permitted.

The man wanted to leave the clinic around 2.30 a.m., RTV Utrecht reports. At Fivoor, they didn't think that was such a good plan, but keeping him inside in was 'unfortunately impossible on legal grounds'.

The man went to the Gall and Gall liquor store, threw a stone through the window and took liquor with him. At 3.15 am he returned to the clinic, where he was arrested by the police.

The residents' association is furious about the incident at the clinic, where previously Michael P. was also living. P. murdered Anne Faber in October 2017.

Spokesman Jan Scherphuis of the residents' association reacts to RTV Utrecht: "This is a situation of which we wonder: how can a patient of that unit behave in this way and why are the supervisors not able to call him to order?"


BBM

 

[ZaZara]

‘Levensgevaarlijke’ patiënt ontsnapt uit kliniek Michael P.


The forensic psychiatric clinic where Michael P. was staying has again been seriously embarrassed, as it appears that a convicted psychiatric patient escaped last Saturday.

The man has been missing ever since and the police are urgently looking for him. Without drugs, the man is very dangerous, according to his family.

He is the 44-year-old Peter M. from Dordrecht, who was convicted in 2017 because he had reported via internet that he would blow up the train station of Dordrecht with an atomic bomb. A few days later he attacked a man in Dordrecht who was loading his groceries into his car. Out of nowhere, M. jumped on the back of the man but was overpowered by the victim and his son. M. was carrying a knife at that moment. Investigation revealed that M. was completely insane. He is psychotic and suffers from schizophrenia. The Court of Appeal in The Hague sentenced M. on appeal to treatment in a psychiatric hospital.

In January 2019, M. ended up in FPA Utrecht in the village of Den Dolder, the controversial clinic where Michael P. - the murderer of Anne Faber - was also staying. For months M. was in the crisis department of the FPA, where he caused many problems. For example, he refused his medication and harassed the community policeman on the phone. He was also known internally as a 'troublemaker', partly because of problems with aggression.

Despite this, M. recently 'promoted' to another closed department within the clinic, where he is working on resocialisation and where patients are gradually gaining liberties. To the great surprise of his family, who were visiting last week. He immediately said to us: 'If I get the chance, I'll be off', his sister Janine says. According to the family, Mr. had already escaped from a mental health institution in 2014. The family says they have warned the clinic several times about M.'s flight plans.

Those warnings seem to have fallen on deaf ears. Last Saturday, M. had a total of three hours of leave. He spent two of them under supervision, and was allowed to spend the last hour unaccompanied. He seized the opportunity and left without notice to an unknown destination. M.'s family was not informed.

"I only found out on Monday afternoon, when a police arrest team was standing in my house. They were looking for him," M.'s 70-year-old mother says. She is very worried. "He's deadly dangerous, I'm very worried this will end wrong. He hasn't had any medication for days now. I can tell you... without medication he is life-threatening." M.'s mother is also concerned about her own safety, because M. has threatened to kill his family several times. "Without medication he wants to murder his own family," says the mother. "Hopefully he'll be found soon."

Last weekend there was also news that a patient from another clinic of the institution in Den Dolder had smashed a window at a liquor store in the village and had stolen drinks. He wanted to go outside in the middle of the night and it turned out that he had robbed the liquor store afterwards. However, this patient did not stay in the clinic because of a criminal conviction and was allowed to leave. The clinic communicated openly about this incident. Only on Tuesday evening - after questions from this news site - did the clinic inform the municipality of Zeist (which includes Den Dolder) and a contact group of residents and entrepreneurs about the escape of M. (who, unlike the other patient, is dangerous). Despite an explicit request, the clinic does not want to respond to questions.


BBM

 

[Elainera]

My Goodness!! What is going on in that clinic? Seems nothing has changed since Anne's murder.

 

[ZaZara]

My Goodness!! What is going on in that clinic? Seems nothing has changed since Anne's murder.

IMHO this clinic is not exceptional in any sense.

Psychiatrist and journalist Esther van Fenema describes the system:

Doorgeschoten maakbaarheidsdenken

Outdated thinking based on social engineering and social perfectibility


According to Theo Hiddema, the recent debate on the Anne Faber case was not conducted with sufficient focus because Anne Faber's family was present in the Lower House. As a result, the members of parliament held back and there was no need for heads to roll.

We can organise endless silent journeys, feel horrified and express our sympathy, but if we don't put our own house in order, nothing will change and we as a society will have to sacrifice an Anne Faber every few years.

It is no secret that forensic psychiatry is a hotbed of wrongdoings. No wonder when you have to treat the country's most disturbed spirits with too few and often insufficiently trained personnel. When Michael P. came from detention to the forensic-psychiatric ward as a sex offender, they didn't know his history, because he refused to give access to his file. As a rule, a verdict is made available upon registration and can also be found on rechtspraak.nl.

One can seriously ask oneself how an adequate, voluntary treatment can take place at all if the information about someone's past history is not available. Shouldn't Michael P. have been sent back to prison when it turned out that he sabotaged his treatment by not disclosing his history to his treating physicians?

According to forensic psychiatric experts, this treatment often consists of senselessly imposing psychotherapy on criminals who are partly responsible and who suffer from cluster B personality problems, substance abuse and retardedness. It is roughly estimated that only about 10 to 20 percent of the criminals are declared completely insane on the basis of a psychosis, for example, and can actually recover by treatment with medication. Several psychiatrists report that there are not enough people in the institutions who are capable of working with this extremely difficult and complex population. In many cases, daily care depends on temporary staff who are unfamiliar with the department and its problems. There is little choice in recruiting the right people, 'you have to accept everything with a higher level vocation al training'.

Another colleague complains about the naivety and positive countertransference of many aid workers in this sector. When she spoke to a group leader about his failure to keep abreast of the crimes committed by his clients, his defence was 'yes, but I just wanted to go open into it'. Sending them back to detention or terminating treatment is a rarity and often only happens when there is persistent violence and drug trafficking. A lot is condoned, people always get another chance and there is a striking value attached to the promises someone makes to cooperate in an investigation or to improve his life. For example, Gökmen T., who promised the court that he would cooperate in a personality investigation, was released and then shot four people.

In short: the legal frameworks are fine, but the system fails because of incompetence, excessive social engineering thinking and, above all, reacting to incidents instead of a structural approach.

If we too prefer to avoid this inconvenient truth, we pay with an 'Anne Faber' every few years.


BBM

 

[ZaZara]

Seks, drugs & geen controle in kliniek Den Dolder


Sex, drugs & no control in Den Dolder clinic


Niek Puiman understands very well that people living near the Roosenburg Clinic in Den Dolder demand a curfew for the patients. According to the man from Amsterdam, who had been in the clinic for two and a half years, safety in the surrounding area leaves much to be desired. No control over who goes in and out, drugs that are widely available, and many treatment staff who are young, inexperienced and naive. "People aren't there for nothing, are they?"

Niek Puiman does not mince his words. In the meantime, the man from Amsterdam has his life back on track: he has turned his back on crime and no longer uses drugs. On his own strength.

But he hasn't always been a sweetheart, to say the least. For a long time he was in the drug trade, lived a life in sixth gear, bathed in wealth for a quarter of a century, but also experienced the dark side of the world. A friend of his was liquidated in broad daylight.

"I was sitting next to him in a car, when a biker arrived. He stopped in front of the traffic light, grabbed a gun and shot him in the head. I managed to escape from the car, but I did get psychological problems because of what I have been through."

For the man from Amsterdam it was clear: time is up. But returning to normal life again was hard for him at the time. After his mother died too, Puiman became a coke addict, for which he needed a lot of money. He didn't earn that legally. That went on for a long time, until he was caught for burglaries.

In April 2016, the judge ruled that he had to be admitted to the Roosenburg forensic-psychiatric clinic in Den Dolder, where he had to keep in touch with the probation service. He left there last October, but the time he spent inside the walls of the clinic did not make him any better, says Puiman. He wants to tell his story now because, according to him, residents of the village have no idea what goes on in their 'backyard', who is really living there and how they - literally and figuratively - are treated.

"It started already with the fact that during that time - by now this has changed - there was no treatment at all to get rid of drug addiction," the ex-patient says. "So why was I stuck there? It's always been a mystery to me. I sometimes felt like they didn't know what to do with me."

Puiman had to go to rehab, but drugs were available everywhere. The fact that a large hemp cultivation was recently found with about five hundred hemp plants in an empty building on the Altrecht complex, where Roosenburg is also located, doesn't surprise him at all.

"Drugs are readily available here. Do you trade at an outside fence during the night? No, you don't. I've seen the mother of a patient come in with two bags and nothing was checked. Those bags were full of cannabis. Security never asks questions, nor have I ever been searched. With exception of the patients in the closed ward, everyone can go in and out whenever they want."


But even in the closed ward drugs were available, confirms Erik Bijkerk confirms. He is another ex-patient who had to spend six months inside the clinic. "I was in for less than twenty minutes when I was already being offered drugs in a closed ward. The security check was a joke. It's too crazy for words what I saw there. I've been in jail for twelve years, but I've been impressed for a long time with what's going on there."

Puiman understands the fear of local residents in particular that many residents of the clinic can walk in and out freely. For this reason, the Den Dolder Association of Citizens - who recently sent a letter to the Lower House of Parliament - wants the door to be locked at least in the evening and at night.

"I have experienced those fellow patients on a daily basis", the Amsterdammer continues. "They don't sit there without a reason, do they? There is a lot of abuse, of narcotics and also of alcohol." Sometimes patients are caught at a, according to Puiman, rare drug control.

"Then, for example, they find something above a panel of the modular ceiling. But when someone says they don't know anything about it and that it probably belonged to a previous resident, it ends there. It's simply impossible to prove it. A gun was even found in someone's room. In terms of evidence, it didn't work out either."

Puiman came into contact with different types of patients in the clinic. Also Michael P., the rapist and murderer of Anne Faber. "He was in a different department, but I met him regularly in the gym. I immediately noticed that he had a very strange look in his eyes. I got a bad feeling about him. He had few contacts, but you could see that something was wrong with him."

Michael P. could move freely. Because he had concealed the fact that he had raped two young girls in the past, the staff did not know his background either. Tjibbe Joustra, chairman of the Dutch Safety Board, later found in the forensic care and safety report that the clinic was unable to make a proper assessment of the risks associated with his permit procedure.

"We also did not know that there were sex offenders," Puiman tells. "Maybe even better, because rapists are seen as the lowest species. But it was also dangerous. My sister visited me with her children, they just ran through the corridors. If I had known there were abusers in the clinic, we would never have left them alone."

Patients were not allowed to know much about the staff from a privacy and security point of view, but they made it a sport to find out as much as possible. Many of the employees were careless, according to Puiman.

"Often we knew their first name, and searched on Facebook until we found them. We suddenly knew where they came from, and so we often found out the identity of the other young colleagues. Some shielded their social media, but not all of them."

A lot of the staff consisted of young girls, between 20 and 30 years old. "They were timid, had no authority at all. Barely graduated, and they had to talk to us to help us. We didn't take them seriously at all."

Puiman had more questions about personnel policy. "I sometimes asked managers if there were any dress codes. We are not going to interfere, I heard. But some of the girls were wearing short skirts and tight tops. In a clinic where many men are sexually frustrated."

Things got out of hand sometimes. "I know of examples that they shared the bed with patients. Although not in the clinic, but in a small hotel outside the gate. They often received some money for it. That's impossible to explain. Then the authority, if it was there at all, was completely gone."

Puiman hopes for better controls, better trained staff with more preponderance. Because, he says, the people living near the clinic are now being deceived. "To quell unrest, everything is dismissed as harmless, and the impression is created that the situation is under control. It is not, and the question is whether this has suddenly changed. Residents have a right, especially now that there have been so many incidents, to know who their neighbours are and what they are doing."


The management of Fivoor, who is responsible for the Roosenburg clinic, says they don't recognize themselves in the story of Niek Puiman. A spokesman says that they do check for drugs. "But no searches by default." A weapon would not have been found.

There are indeed young employees, "but all are professionally trained. And in the departments they are indeed known by name. This is a legal obligation. We strongly advise them to protect their social media." That they share the bed with patients is 'absolutely not allowed'. "If it does occur, we will investigate the incident and always report it to the police.

On the contrary, Jan Scherphuis of the Den Dolder Association of Interests has stated that he finds the story 'perfectly recognizable'. "This is in line with what we have heard before. That it is very easy to smuggle drugs in. I can't judge what the regime is like now, but I may hope that it's been curtailed by now."


BBM


As far as I am aware, this clinic is extreme, but not THAT extreme.

 

[ZaZara]

Hof handhaaft vonnis Michael P. in hoger beroep: 28 jaar en tbs

The Court of Appeal in Arnhem also sentences Michael P. to 28 years imprisonment and tbs on appeal. The punishment is the same as that given to Anne Faber's murderer last year.

P.'s lawyers pleaded on appeal for a lower sentence, because he would have been treated harshly when he was arrested. He then had his shoulder broken, that is why according to him he can no longer play tennis without pain. P. would not have been cautioned about his right to remain silent either.

The Public Prosecutor's Office demanded the same sentence on appeal: 28 years with tbs. It considers the murder still proven, while P. continued to deny it on appeal. Today the court of appeal says that there is no question of premeditation and that it is therefore not a murder.

The court of appeal does acknowledge that P. was brutally arrested, but because he had a fair trial, this does not lead to a reduction of the sentence. According to the Court of Appeal, neither do the attention of the media and politics.

According to RTL News reporter Britta Sanders, P. briefly looked at the chairman of the court of appeal during the judgment. When he heard that he would not receive a reduction in his sentence, his head dropped and he stared at the table.

According to Sanders, P. listened to the ruling of the Court of Appeal without any further ado. Afterwards he was accompanied by officers from the room and had a 'bitter line about his mouth'.

Niels Dorrestein, one of P.'s lawyers, informs RTL Nieuws that the court's decision is very disappointing for his client. "The goal was a different verdict from the court and that did not succeed. The chance that we will go to cassation is very high."

"The court did not take into account the violent arrest of P.", says P's other lawyer Sander de Korte. According to him, this should have a detrimental effect on the punishment.

De Korte does not yet know when he will speak to P., possibly Friday afternoon, otherwise next week. P. was taken away immediately after the verdict and brought back to prison.

If an appeal is filed, the Supreme Court will consider the decision. They do not look at the content of the case, but whether the law has been correctly applied.


BBM

 

[Blue Girl1991]

Hof handhaaft vonnis Michael P. in hoger beroep: 28 jaar en tbs

The Court of Appeal in Arnhem also sentences Michael P. to 28 years imprisonment and tbs on appeal. The punishment is the same as that given to Anne Faber's murderer last year.

P.'s lawyers pleaded on appeal for a lower sentence, because he would have been treated harshly when he was arrested. He then had his shoulder broken, that is why according to him he can no longer play tennis without pain. P. would not have been cautioned about his right to remain silent either.

The Public Prosecutor's Office demanded the same sentence on appeal: 28 years with tbs. It considers the murder still proven, while P. continued to deny it on appeal. Today the court of appeal says that there is no question of premeditation and that it is therefore not a murder.

The court of appeal does acknowledge that P. was brutally arrested, but because he had a fair trial, this does not lead to a reduction of the sentence. According to the Court of Appeal, neither do the attention of the media and politics.

According to RTL News reporter Britta Sanders, P. briefly looked at the chairman of the court of appeal during the judgment. When he heard that he would not receive a reduction in his sentence, his head dropped and he stared at the table.

According to Sanders, P. listened to the ruling of the Court of Appeal without any further ado. Afterwards he was accompanied by officers from the room and had a 'bitter line about his mouth'.

Niels Dorrestein, one of P.'s lawyers, informs RTL Nieuws that the court's decision is very disappointing for his client. "The goal was a different verdict from the court and that did not succeed. The chance that we will go to cassation is very high."

"The court did not take into account the violent arrest of P.", says P's other lawyer Sander de Korte. According to him, this should have a detrimental effect on the punishment.

De Korte does not yet know when he will speak to P., possibly Friday afternoon, otherwise next week. P. was taken away immediately after the verdict and brought back to prison.

If an appeal is filed, the Supreme Court will consider the decision. They do not look at the content of the case, but whether the law has been correctly applied.


BBM

Thank you so much ZaZara for the Updates! ,I was absent from May so I just read the updates today.

Such A relief that this monster failed in his Appeal

ZaZara do you think he has some a real chance if he appeals again?

This pathetic murderer dares to complain about his shoulder?if he wasn't an evil person who raped and murdered a woman and Causing grief and eternal pain for her family and friends, then he wouldn't arrested in the first place.


Michael P says he will kill himself if his sentence remains this high...
and I say to him ,please do it, bring some real justice to Anne family , it's horrible that they have to suffer from the brutal loss of their dear daughter, so at least they will not have to deal with the unimaginable reality that you get meals every day ,watch 50 channels on television and continues to exist.

 

[Hraefn]

Hof handhaaft vonnis Michael P. in hoger beroep: 28 jaar en tbs

The Court of Appeal in Arnhem also sentences Michael P. to 28 years imprisonment and tbs on appeal. The punishment is the same as that given to Anne Faber's murderer last year.

P.'s lawyers pleaded on appeal for a lower sentence, because he would have been treated harshly when he was arrested. He then had his shoulder broken, that is why according to him he can no longer play tennis without pain. P. would not have been cautioned about his right to remain silent either.

The Public Prosecutor's Office demanded the same sentence on appeal: 28 years with tbs. It considers the murder still proven, while P. continued to deny it on appeal. Today the court of appeal says that there is no question of premeditation and that it is therefore not a murder.

The court of appeal does acknowledge that P. was brutally arrested, but because he had a fair trial, this does not lead to a reduction of the sentence. According to the Court of Appeal, neither do the attention of the media and politics.

According to RTL News reporter Britta Sanders, P. briefly looked at the chairman of the court of appeal during the judgment. When he heard that he would not receive a reduction in his sentence, his head dropped and he stared at the table.

According to Sanders, P. listened to the ruling of the Court of Appeal without any further ado. Afterwards he was accompanied by officers from the room and had a 'bitter line about his mouth'.

Niels Dorrestein, one of P.'s lawyers, informs RTL Nieuws that the court's decision is very disappointing for his client. "The goal was a different verdict from the court and that did not succeed. The chance that we will go to cassation is very high."

"The court did not take into account the violent arrest of P.", says P's other lawyer Sander de Korte. According to him, this should have a detrimental effect on the punishment.

De Korte does not yet know when he will speak to P., possibly Friday afternoon, otherwise next week. P. was taken away immediately after the verdict and brought back to prison.

If an appeal is filed, the Supreme Court will consider the decision. They do not look at the content of the case, but whether the law has been correctly applied.


BBM

He's really saying that his sentence for a brutal murder and cover up should be reduced because he can't play tennis without pain...that's all I need to know about his ability to be rehabilitated. Lock him up for life.

 

[ZaZara]

He's really saying that his sentence for a brutal murder and cover up should be reduced because he can't play tennis without pain...that's all I need to know about his ability to be rehabilitated. Lock him up for life.

Eeeeh.... not quite ... unfortunately.

OM moet agenten vervolgen die Michael P. schouderbreuk bezorgden


Five members of the arrest team that captured Michael P. must be prosecuted by the Public Prosecution Service (OM). The way in which they arrested Michael P. in 2017 after the murder of Anne Faber may have been too violent. That is what the Court of Appeal of Amsterdam has decided.

The Public Prosecution refused to prosecute the officers earlier, but is now forced to do so by the Court of Appeal. According to the court of appeal, prosecution should be initiated on account of causing injury, but also in order to get more clarity about the instruction about the arrest.

If, after a criminal investigation, the Public Prosecution Service comes to the conclusion that prosecution is not appropriate, this decision must still be submitted to the court of appeal. The court then checks whether this is the right decision.

Reaction of the Anne Faber family:

"It doesn't feel right that the people who tried to save Anne are now being persecuted", says Hans Faber, Anne's uncle. "If you go back to the situation at the time, there was a possibility that Anne was still alive. They then pushed the limits in order to find her."

"We also went through fences and did things that are not allowed under the law. Let them prosecute us as well. We are prepared to go to prison, instead of the members of the arrest team who are being prosecuted. We want to express our support for them."



BBM

 

[Hraefn]

Eeeeh.... not quite ... unfortunately.

OM moet agenten vervolgen die Michael P. schouderbreuk bezorgden


Five members of the arrest team that captured Michael P. must be prosecuted by the Public Prosecution Service (OM). The way in which they arrested Michael P. in 2017 after the murder of Anne Faber may have been too violent. That is what the Court of Appeal of Amsterdam has decided.

The Public Prosecution refused to prosecute the officers earlier, but is now forced to do so by the Court of Appeal. According to the court of appeal, prosecution should be initiated on account of causing injury, but also in order to get more clarity about the instruction about the arrest.

If, after a criminal investigation, the Public Prosecution Service comes to the conclusion that prosecution is not appropriate, this decision must still be submitted to the court of appeal. The court then checks whether this is the right decision.

Reaction of the Anne Faber family:

"It doesn't feel right that the people who tried to save Anne are now being persecuted", says Hans Faber, Anne's uncle. "If you go back to the situation at the time, there was a possibility that Anne was still alive. They then pushed the limits in order to find her."

"We also went through fences and did things that are not allowed under the law. Let them prosecute us as well. We are prepared to go to prison, instead of the members of the arrest team who are being prosecuted. We want to express our support for them."



BBM

I see, thanks for more context. I still don't feel it should have anything to do with his sentence for his crimes. If he is entitled to a civil suit or the LEO is charged or punished it's one thing, but the manner of arrest shouldn't affect his sentence IMO.