Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

[ab01]

I think the more time BG spent with the girls, the riskier it would have been. Marching them around the woods, and/or through the creek, and/or over the bridge, for 10 or more minutes, seems risky and unnecessary.

Add to that my lonely little thought that I hear running water (the creek) in the immediate background of the audio.

Personally, I don't think BG fully engaged the girls until very near the crime scene, and probably only spent less than 10 minutes directly with them. I don't think he led them to that specific spot, I think it just happened to be where he met up with and could approach them mostly unseen.

You may boo me off the stage now...

Not that far fetched at all IMO
I have honestly thought about the possibility that the video was done as BG passed the girls on the south side of the bridge and he may have followed them back across. The down the hill audio may actually have been on the northeast side of the bridge and down a path toward the site where they were found.

simple and plausible IMO

 

[Jax49]

Websleuths Lingo link:

Websleuths Lingo

 

[TL4S]

Not that far fetched at all IMO
I have honestly thought about the possibility that the video was done as BG passed the girls on the south side of the bridge and he may have followed them back across. The down the hill audio may actually have been on the northeast side of the bridge and down a path toward the site where they were found.

simple and plausible IMO

Yes, I can imagine multiple scenarios that keep BG at a distance, but the girls within his sight. I have come to see him as more of a stalking-type, but whatever way it happened, I think the girls ended up closer to that CS before his approach.

 

[tresir2012]

As DG was the first on the scene to know something was wrong since Libby wasn’t answering her phone, I would expect LE would’ve spoken to him at the time the missing persons report was filed, along with others. DG was local, most of the people who regularly walked the trails were local and word of the girls disappearance reportedly spread around town very quickly. So I presume LE would’ve had the opportunity to speak with others also on the trail that day very quickly, even that same night.

I keep thinking back to that first night and no one, neither LE nor the families, apparently had reason to believe foul play occurred. IMO that suggests nobody reported noticing anything or anyone appearing to be overly suspicious.

On the topic of the initial search that evening and night, I think looking for two live teenagers is much different than looking for bodies which nobody expected to find. JMO

And we are looking with the benefit of hindsight but one would expect them to start at the evidence for the last sighting then work in a circle outwards. As an example, BP drove the route she believed they may have walked to get back to her house, this was actually north of the creek and that would be one of the obvious routes to look at first. The next place would be to then see if they had walked to Abby's house which is the opposite direction, about a mile south of the bridge. Then all points in between, which is what they did I am sure.

 

[x_files]

In the police calls.
In 2010 some one, probably from Ron Logan's house called police to report a naked women on the road screaming for police. A deputy checked it out and found nothing. Yet I think that is a pretty unusual police call.
MOO they need to bring the historical battlefield sniffer dogs and go over the whole creek area. For some reason it was was never thought of as significant. Maybe they knew it was a prank call.

Maybe it wasn't a prank? They just never found the woman?

 

[tresir2012]

We know of the atleast two that contributed to the sketches for certain

atleast 1 per each sketch if IIRC

Now whether the persons that they were describing to the sketch artist is actually BG, Well that's another question all together

So maybe 3 total, but assuming they aren't mistaking BG for another witness on the trail (I guess they may not know each other as witnesses). Plus Libby, via the voice and video, so 4 maximum. And they cannot agree as we have the two sketches so far. I do hope they have DNA.

 

[x_files]

The girls were killed on the 13th though, not on Valentine's Day. I don't know about Valentine's Day being a catalyst to the murders but I agree that some form of misogyny may have played a part in them.

The 13th of Feb. is close enough to be a trigger. I have recently broken up friends that start lamenting months prior to Feb because of the holiday. It depresses them. Imagine now if you feel rejected, filled with rage? It could indeed be a trigger and took it out on the first victims he found.

 

[TL4S]

Not that far fetched at all IMO
I have honestly thought about the possibility that the video was done as BG passed the girls on the south side of the bridge and he may have followed them back across. The down the hill audio may actually have been on the northeast side of the bridge and down a path toward the site where they were found.

simple and plausible IMO

And even if he crossed back first, he could have waited around on the N side, on the trail itself, blocking their way. Maybe they were too scared to pass him that close, so they tried to go far out around him through the woods, but he entered the woods, too, pushing them east? IDK (I don't know) Kind of like this: Red is BG, Blue is the girls. Until he finally approached them at some point in the woods?

He at least would have had the benefit of seeing if anyone was coming before he left the trail.

 

[x_files]

To me, I agree... it looks like the sort of thing he did because they made him mad. Kind of like a trigger when we kick the dog because we are highly irritated at everything and now at a poor defenseless animal. Apples and oranges, I know. But the same in a sort of way.

But my imagination is he walks around with a gun (probably has a concealed carry permit and is legally allowed to carry due to no previous felonies). He perceives their giggles are directed at him. He decides to "teach them a lesson" then it escalates as they look at him with shear terror in their eyes. Now, he's gone too far and if they live they will identify him for abducting them down the hill.

Anyway, just my guess based on what he looks like and the circumstances. However, if this was not planned, he sure did luck into the best possible location not to be detected. But... he WILL be caught!

Especially if he is delusional or paranoid or is triggered by being laughed at or bullied. So many men could fit this profile.

 

[TL4S]

And even if he crossed back first, he could have waited around on the N side, on the trail itself, blocking their way. Maybe they were too scared to pass him that close, so they tried to go far out around him through the woods, but he entered the woods, too, pushing them east? IDK (I don't know) Kind of like this: Red is BG, Blue is the girls. Until he finally approached them at some point in the woods?

He at least would have had the benefit of seeing if anyone was coming before he left the trail.

Honestly, it doesn't take luck here. As long as BG is in front of the girls on the bridge or on the trail, they are blocked in...by the bridge, by the trail's end, by the creek. They can't get back to the trail heads without crossing him at some point. This gives him the advantage, and is why I don't think he had to march them all that far. He only had to cut them off. For the girls it was like trying to get out of a closed box.

His only luck was that nobody happened by during the twenty minutes or so that he was busy stalking them. JMO

 

[tresir2012]

MOO there are no specific MSM sources for witnesses or times.
The sketch July 2017 info from at least two witnesses.
The sketch released April 2019, drawn Feb 2017 was information from one witness.

I tried to add your reply as a quote to my reply to AB01 but you can't multiquote in edit mode. At least 2 of them have been mentioned in either MSM or GH sources that we have already discussed. TY for the response.

 

[tresir2012]

Honestly, it doesn't take luck here. As long as BG is in front of the girls on the bridge or on the trail, they are blocked in...by the bridge, by the trail's end, by the creek. They can't get back to the trail heads without crossing him at some point. This gives him the advantage, and is why I don't think he had to march them all that far. He only had to cut them off. For the girls it was like trying to get out of a closed box.

His only luck was that nobody happened by during the twenty minutes or so that he was busy stalking them. JMO

In this scenario though why wouldn't the girls just cross back over the bridge onto the trail where they know they would be more likely to see others, or to phone someone?
This makes me wonder if they did know him in some way or another, distantly and they were tricked by him to go along with him. MOO.

 

[Boxer]

I tried to add your reply as a quote to my reply to AB01 but you can't multiquote in edit mode. At least 2 of them have been mentioned in either MSM or GH sources that we have already discussed. TY for the response.

Sorry, I haven't found any specific witness names or times of what they saw in MSM, if you have a info where to look I would appreciate it.
I am lost on Gray Hughes. Derrick's path is the one I am familiar with, but only FSG is mentioned.
FSG only heard/saw? a couple --and the time he was at the bridge? He met up wih DG at 3:15.
MOO Walk from Bridge back to Mears parking area about 6 minutes.

 

[ab01]

Sorry, I haven't found any specific witness names or times of what they saw in MSM, if you have a info where to look I would appreciate it.
I am lost on Gray Hughes. Derrick's path is the one I am familiar with, but only FSG is mentioned.
FSG only heard/saw? a couple --and the time he was at the bridge? He met up wih DG at 3:15.
MOO Walk from Bridge back to Mears parking area about 6 minutes.

Could BG’s blue coat have had a reversible flannel lining? Nah that would be too easy

 

[Seattle1]

Not that far fetched at all IMO
I have honestly thought about the possibility that the video was done as BG passed the girls on the south side of the bridge and he may have followed them back across. The down the hill audio may actually have been on the northeast side of the bridge and down a path toward the site where they were found.

simple and plausible IMO

Agree.

I also believe he could have kept watch from his vantage point and was well aware that nobody else had crossed bridge recently, and/or were already accounted for after witnessing them return across the bridge.

At that moment, he was confident they were alone, and acted fast.

MOO

 

[Boxer]

Could BG’s blue coat have had a reversible flannel lining? Nah that would be too easy

Goos idea anything bold and risky is possible with this killer, but MOO BG's jacket looks like thin a coach type material, doesn't look like the type for a lining.

 

[Jamie737]

And even if he crossed back first, he could have waited around on the N side, on the trail itself, blocking their way. Maybe they were too scared to pass him that close, so they tried to go far out around him through the woods, but he entered the woods, too, pushing them east? IDK (I don't know) Kind of like this: Red is BG, Blue is the girls. Until he finally approached them at some point in the woods?

He at least would have had the benefit of seeing if anyone was coming before he left the trail.

Honestly, it doesn't take luck here. As long as BG is in front of the girls on the bridge or on the trail, they are blocked in...by the bridge, by the trail's end, by the creek. They can't get back to the trail heads without crossing him at some point. This gives him the advantage, and is why I don't think he had to march them all that far. He only had to cut them off. For the girls it was like trying to get out of a closed box.

His only luck was that nobody happened by during the twenty minutes or so that he was busy stalking them. JMO

I really like this train of thought and the graphic. Can we place the witnesses along that track and timeline?

 

[FinePrint]

Goos idea anything bold and risky is possible with this killer, but MOO BG's jacket looks like thin a coach type material, doesn't look like the type for a lining.

Looks like a typical Carhartt or Dicky jacket worn by a lot of men, at least around here in IN.

 

[Cutiekitty]

I suppose yes, if for instance they were in jail...

Could still be a coconspirator or participant in a passive way. Not saying that happened in this case at all.

 

[HockeyMom330]

MOO there are no specific MSM sources for witnesses or times.
The sketch July 2017 info from at least two witnesses.
The sketch released April 2019, drawn Feb 2017 was information from one witness.

So potentially only one witness saw BG, and possibly (likely IMO) not on the bridge/trails. LE have clarified that the sketches represent two different people and that the one in the July 2017 composite is not longer a POI, so whomever those witnesses saw is not BG.