Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

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If people want to believe that the park is full of horseback riders and ATVs then I guess they can.

I am starting to wonder why I even post about the park anymore. I thought that since I have nearly 40 years' worth of experiences there I might be able to shed some light on its geography and why people visit. I thought this would be helpful since most posters have never been there. Instead, it just feels like people want to argue about it. I am getting anxiety just checking my notifications anymore.

I've been a little frustrated on your behalf myself. There's always going to be someone that doesn't "get" you know what you're talking about. I have people argue with me about things in my profession.
 
How do we know fsg crossed the bridge? Most people I’m told only walk up to the bridge and turn around. I’m sure he could see people under the bridge from the trail without actually being on the bridge

Jmo
That's right. And I think as long as he was at the bridge after, say, 2:45/2:50 or later, he was too late to see anything, especially if he didn't cross the bridge.

If DG saw him on the trail after 3:14, I would guess that puts FSG by the bridge after that 2:45 time. JMO
 
I've been a little frustrated on your behalf myself. There's always going to be someone that doesn't "get" you know what you're talking about. I have people argue with me about things in my profession.

I think the problem is that we don’t have much to go on in this case, and imaginations tend to run wild with the lack of information. I, myself, have had my fair share of wild speculation, but I’ve seen some theories that are so far reaching they’re almost comical.

In truth, I think the simplest explanation (whatever that means, right?) of who and why is probably the correct one.

My only hope is that LE has a lot more information that they just aren’t releasing. Otherwise I fear this case is in quite a bit of trouble.
 
I think the problem is that we don’t have much to go on in this case, and imaginations tend to run wild with the lack of information. I, myself, have had my fair share of wild speculation, but I’ve seen some theories that are so far reaching they’re almost comical.

In truth, I think the simplest explanation (whatever that means, right?) of who and why is probably the correct one.

My only hope is that LE has a lot more information that they just aren’t releasing. Otherwise I fear this case is in quite a bit of trouble.

I totally agree with you.
 
TIMELINE for Monday, February 13, 2017
The Day the Girls Went Missing

ALL info is based on Libby's family's own words.

10:00
Libby and Abby awakened at Libby's house. Derrick (Libby's father) made them pancakes.


1:00
Kelsie, Libby's sister, arrive at Becky and Mike Patty's house, were also Libby live. Kelsie says that she was going to a friend's house before going to work. Libby hear her and ask if she can go to the bridge for a while since it was so warm.
1:38
Libby and Abby were dropped off by Kelsie (Libby's sister) to go hiking near Monon High Bridge , according to family.


2:07
Libby took a snapchat pic of Abby on the bridge, this was the last time anyone heard from the girls.
2:30
Libby take video of Bridgeman
2:49
CME (female witness) walked the bridge, saw a man before that and a couple under the bridge, did not see or hear the girls or the possible suspect at the bridgearea.
2:52
"Flannel Shirt Man" (older man mid to late 70's, a witness) sees a man ( possibly the suspect) leave the area just few meters north of the meeting point.


3:02
Possible suspect is seen at Freedom Bridge (not sure by whom?).
3:11
Derrick, Libby's dad call Libby while passing Wilson Bridge, no answer, he leave message at voicemail; he is almost there.
3:14
Derrick, Libby's dad call Libby again saying he has arrived at the meeting point,
no answer just voicemail, so he walk towards the trailhead, didn't see anybody.
Derrick walk further and meet an older man (the old FSM man witness?), coming from the high bridge, and ask him if he had seen the girls, but he had not but tell Derrick that there
was a couple (a man and a woman) under the bridge. Derrick then take the trial leading down to the creek to see if the couple was there, but Becky (Libby's grandmother), who is telling all this, does not remember if Derrick saw the couple or not.
Derrick then walk back to the meeting point.
3:30
Derrick call Becky telling her that Libby's not answering her phone and now the calls goes straight to voicemail.
3:30
Becky calls and sms Libby, but no answer.
3:35
Derrick walk down to the Freedom Bridge and on his way he meet the older man again (the FSM witness ?).


4:00
Derrick has walked back to the meeting point.
4:00
Becky calls her husband Mike Patty at his work and tell him she had called and sms'ed Libby, but no answer.
Becky tell Mike that they will go to the bridge and look for the girls.
Mike Patty says he will leave work at once and come to the Bridge and look for Libby and Abby.
4:??
Tara German (Libby's aunt) leave Becky's house 10minuts before Becky and when Tara
got to the meeting point she got into Derrick's car with Derrick.
4;??
As Becky leave her house Cody Patty (Mike Patty's son) come pulling in. He has just gotten out of work, Becky told him what was going on and Cody got in the car with Becky, and they headed to the meeting point.
When they arrived at the meeting point there was a lot of cars there also cars that did not belong to the family says Becky.
Becky call AT&T, bc Libby had reset her phone the week before, and Becky asked if they could ping Libby's phone but they said they could not do it.
4:18
Becky calls husband Mike Patty again
4-5:00
Mike Patty says that they, as a family, had searched the area, couldn't find anything.


5:15
Becky says "at this time Mike come walking up, he had been searching too" (at the meeting point) "when Mike got there he pulled in to Mr. Mirrore's driveway because there was no place to park due to so many cars".
Mike Patty call a friend who is a police officer.
5:15
Becky, after a long time talking to AT&T, give up talking to them because they could not help.
5:20
Mike Patty call the police


This are my sources :

Gray Hughes interview with Becky and Mike Patty

Gray Hughes: Derrick's Path and more Libby and Abby Delphi Indiana

Dr Phil interview with Libby's family

And 4 pages of typed interview with
Becky Patty (Libby's grandmother) and Tara German (Libby's aunt)
 
TIMELINE for Monday, February 13, 2017
The Day the Girls Went Missing

ALL info is based on Libby's family's own words.

10:00
Libby and Abby awakened at Libby's house. Derrick (Libby's father) made them pancakes.


1:00
Kelsie, Libby's sister, arrive at Becky and Mike Patty's house, were also Libby live. Kelsie says that she was going to a friend's house before going to work. Libby hear her and ask if she can go to the bridge for a while since it was so warm.
1:38
Libby and Abby were dropped off by Kelsie (Libby's sister) to go hiking near Monon High Bridge , according to family.


2:07
Libby took a snapchat pic of Abby on the bridge, this was the last time anyone heard from the girls.
2:30
Libby take video of Bridgeman
2:49
CME (female witness) walked the bridge, saw a man before that and a couple under the bridge, did not see or hear the girls or the possible suspect at the bridgearea.
2:52
"Flannel Shirt Man" (older man mid to late 70's, a witness) sees a man ( possibly the suspect) leave the area just few meters north of the meeting point.


3:02
Possible suspect is seen at Freedom Bridge (not sure by whom?).
3:11
Derrick, Libby's dad call Libby while passing Wilson Bridge, no answer, he leave message at voicemail; he is almost there.
3:14
Derrick, Libby's dad call Libby again saying he has arrived at the meeting point,
no answer just voicemail, so he walk towards the trailhead, didn't see anybody.
Derrick walk further and meet an older man (the old FSM man witness?), coming from the high bridge, and ask him if he had seen the girls, but he had not but tell Derrick that there
was a couple (a man and a woman) under the bridge. Derrick then take the trial leading down to the creek to see if the couple was there, but Becky (Libby's grandmother), who is telling all this, does not remember if Derrick saw the couple or not.
Derrick then walk back to the meeting point.
3:30
Derrick call Becky telling her that Libby's not answering her phone and now the calls goes straight to voicemail.
3:30
Becky calls and sms Libby, but no answer.
3:35
Derrick walk down to the Freedom Bridge and on his way he meet the older man again (the FSM witness ?).


4:00
Derrick has walked back to the meeting point.
4:00
Becky calls her husband Mike Patty at his work and tell him she had called and sms'ed Libby, but no answer.
Becky tell Mike that they will go to the bridge and look for the girls.
Mike Patty says he will leave work at once and come to the Bridge and look for Libby and Abby.
4:??
Tara German (Libby's aunt) leave Becky's house 10minuts before Becky and when Tara
got to the meeting point she got into Derrick's car with Derrick.
4;??
As Becky leave her house Cody Patty (Mike Patty's son) come pulling in. He has just gotten out of work, Becky told him what was going on and Cody got in the car with Becky, and they headed to the meeting point.
When they arrived at the meeting point there was a lot of cars there also cars that did not belong to the family says Becky.
Becky call AT&T, bc Libby had reset her phone the week before, and Becky asked if they could ping Libby's phone but they said they could not do it.
4:18
Becky calls husband Mike Patty again
4-5:00
Mike Patty says that they, as a family, had searched the area, couldn't find anything.


5:15
Becky says "at this time Mike come walking up, he had been searching too" (at the meeting point) "when Mike got there he pulled in to Mr. Mirrore's driveway because there was no place to park due to so many cars".
Mike Patty call a friend who is a police officer.
5:15
Becky, after a long time talking to AT&T, give up talking to them because they could not help.
5:20
Mike Patty call the police


This are my sources :

Gray Hughes interview with Becky and Mike Patty

Gray Hughes: Derrick's Path and more Libby and Abby Delphi Indiana

Dr Phil interview with Libby's family

And 4 pages of typed interview with
Becky Patty (Libby's grandmother) and Tara German (Libby's aunt)

THANK YOU, THANK YOU for this great timeline.

WELL DONE!
 
We need a Mark Fuhrman type to walk right into that detective bureau, pivot on the balls of his feet, and start kicking over chairs, pound on desks with 2-fisted outrage. Light a figurative fire under some of the detectives, make it hot...until this thing is done.
Personally, I don't think it's for lack of effort on LE's part. Have they made some mistakes? I'm sure they have, as witnessed by us all in the shift in focus presented at the April PC. I see this as being a positive step in the right direction. I believe this is a very complicated case. There are things we cannot discuss here, but I have no doubt LE are aware of these things. Following another arrest, former DA Ives returns to work as assistant. Shortly thereafter, the PC which shook things up quite a bit. Are these three things related? I am hoping so and that it is only a matter of time before an arrest is made. OTOH, I fear there's not enough, if any, killer DNA, OR if there is, it could be explained away by a good defence attorney. Even if the creep is already in jail somewhere for some other heinous crime, we still want him nailed for this one. We need justice for Libby and Abby. I sincerely hope it's just a matter of time to get everything they need to not only make an arrest, but to secure a conviction.
 
Not that far fetched at all IMO
I have honestly thought about the possibility that the video was done as BG passed the girls on the south side of the bridge and he may have followed them back across. The down the hill audio may actually have been on the northeast side of the bridge and down a path toward the site where they were found.

simple and plausible IMO
THIS ^^^ sounds quite believeable! IMO.
 
What is the theory on if there or isn’t a vehicle at the end of the bridge in the final Snapchat pic that Libby posted of Abby? I see a white vehicle, but my eyes may be playing tricks on me.

I saw that in old podcast as well, but was told many threads ago it was proven not to be a vehicle.
 
I've been bothered by the OBG and NBG descriptions and have constantly maintained that I could not wrap my brain around this new young looking BG...

After doing some really deep digging over the last couple of days I have completely changed my train of thought. It has always been so dang hard for me to see a younger person as LE is now describing BG to be. I now see the light as the person I now believe to BG did look a lot older back in 2017 than he does today.

I now believe LE has a POI and is just putting the pieces together. I do not believe they have a viable DNA sample of the killer but are instead having to rely on more conventional evidence to lock this thing in. I think the last press conference was 2 fold. First to ask the public to provide tips which can hopefully provide more proof to lock this thing up and secondly to let the killer know that they know who he is.

The only thing that bothers me is the comment made by Carter, the "Who may be in this room" comment. That really throws me off. If they know who he is then they would know if he was in the room or not.

Also I believe that LE is not warning the Delphi community of an ongoing danger because of the suspects current living arrangements and is no longer a treat to the community.

All a big MOO
 
What is the theory on if there or isn’t a vehicle at the end of the bridge in the final Snapchat pic that Libby posted of Abby? I see a white vehicle, but my eyes may be playing tricks on me.

I don't see a vehicle, or white, and I can't see how a vehicle would be driven on a walking trail to the end if the bridge. Can you point to what you see?
 
That's right. And I think as long as he was at the bridge after, say, 2:45/2:50 or later, he was too late to see anything, especially if he didn't cross the bridge.

If DG saw him on the trail after 3:14, I would guess that puts FSG by the bridge after that 2:45 time. JMO

Agree, depending on how long FSG stayed at his bridge turnaround point, I think about a 5-6 walk back to the parking by the Mears.
 
I'm leery of putting links up as one time I was chewed a new one by a member as the link rerouted you. Although the reroute was the link I was sharing. Hence I asked if anyone had seen the YT video just in case it wasn't allowed.
Can you tell us what YT video it is?
 
I'm leery of putting links up as one time I was chewed a new one by a member as the link rerouted you. Although the reroute was the link I was sharing. Hence I asked if anyone had seen the YT video just in case it wasn't allowed.
Chewed a new one. :)
Imo you can ignore what people say unless they are a mod. The mods are great and that's a fact.
 
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