Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

[BNA]

I think the problem is that we don’t have much to go on in this case, and imaginations tend to run wild with the lack of information. I, myself, have had my fair share of wild speculation, but I’ve seen some theories that are so far reaching they’re almost comical.

In truth, I think the simplest explanation (whatever that means, right?) of who and why is probably the correct one.

My only hope is that LE has a lot more information that they just aren’t releasing. Otherwise I fear this case is in quite a bit of trouble.

Right. I have always believed...always been told....that it is a fool's errand to try to solve a crime without knowing anything about the scene of the crime. But, we carry on.

 

[tresir2012]

TIMELINE for Monday, February 13, 2017
The Day the Girls Went Missing

ALL info is based on Libby's family's own words.

10:00
Libby and Abby awakened at Libby's house. Derrick (Libby's father) made them pancakes.


1:00
Kelsie, Libby's sister, arrive at Becky and Mike Patty's house, were also Libby live. Kelsie says that she was going to a friend's house before going to work. Libby hear her and ask if she can go to the bridge for a while since it was so warm.
1:38
Libby and Abby were dropped off by Kelsie (Libby's sister) to go hiking near Monon High Bridge , according to family.


2:07
Libby took a snapchat pic of Abby on the bridge, this was the last time anyone heard from the girls.
2:30
Libby take video of Bridgeman
2:49
CME (female witness) walked the bridge, saw a man before that and a couple under the bridge, did not see or hear the girls or the possible suspect at the bridgearea.
2:52
"Flannel Shirt Man" (older man mid to late 70's, a witness) sees a man ( possibly the suspect) leave the area just few meters north of the meeting point.


3:02
Possible suspect is seen at Freedom Bridge (not sure by whom?).
3:11
Derrick, Libby's dad call Libby while passing Wilson Bridge, no answer, he leave message at voicemail; he is almost there.
3:14
Derrick, Libby's dad call Libby again saying he has arrived at the meeting point,
no answer just voicemail, so he walk towards the trailhead, didn't see anybody.
Derrick walk further and meet an older man (the old FSM man witness?), coming from the high bridge, and ask him if he had seen the girls, but he had not but tell Derrick that there
was a couple (a man and a woman) under the bridge. Derrick then take the trial leading down to the creek to see if the couple was there, but Becky (Libby's grandmother), who is telling all this, does not remember if Derrick saw the couple or not.
Derrick then walk back to the meeting point.
3:30
Derrick call Becky telling her that Libby's not answering her phone and now the calls goes straight to voicemail.
3:30
Becky calls and sms Libby, but no answer.
3:35
Derrick walk down to the Freedom Bridge and on his way he meet the older man again (the FSM witness ?).


4:00
Derrick has walked back to the meeting point.
4:00
Becky calls her husband Mike Patty at his work and tell him she had called and sms'ed Libby, but no answer.
Becky tell Mike that they will go to the bridge and look for the girls.
Mike Patty says he will leave work at once and come to the Bridge and look for Libby and Abby.
4:??
Tara German (Libby's aunt) leave Becky's house 10minuts before Becky and when Tara
got to the meeting point she got into Derrick's car with Derrick.
4;??
As Becky leave her house Cody Patty (Mike Patty's son) come pulling in. He has just gotten out of work, Becky told him what was going on and Cody got in the car with Becky, and they headed to the meeting point.
When they arrived at the meeting point there was a lot of cars there also cars that did not belong to the family says Becky.
Becky call AT&T, bc Libby had reset her phone the week before, and Becky asked if they could ping Libby's phone but they said they could not do it.
4:18
Becky calls husband Mike Patty again
4-5:00
Mike Patty says that they, as a family, had searched the area, couldn't find anything.


5:15
Becky says "at this time Mike come walking up, he had been searching too" (at the meeting point) "when Mike got there he pulled in to Mr. Mirrore's driveway because there was no place to park due to so many cars".
Mike Patty call a friend who is a police officer.
5:15
Becky, after a long time talking to AT&T, give up talking to them because they could not help.
5:20
Mike Patty call the police


This are my sources :

Gray Hughes interview with Becky and Mike Patty

Gray Hughes: Derrick's Path and more Libby and Abby Delphi Indiana

Dr Phil interview with Libby's family

And 4 pages of typed interview with
Becky Patty (Libby's grandmother) and Tara German (Libby's aunt)

Very interested in FSG seeing possible suspect at 2.52 at meeting place (there was some crime scene tape near there) and wonder who saw the suspect at Freedom Bridge at 3.02. That could mean the murders were over by 2.45 or so. Unless they mistook someone else for the suspect.

TYVM for posting this. Could you add it to the media thread as we will shortly be going to a new thread?

 

[BNA]

Yes I have seen it covered.

OK. You are the second of two responses. Thanks.

However, I can tell you that exactly zero people who I know or who I interact with on personal business in my retirement, or who I am related to out here in Pennsylvania know even one thing about this case. Even one thing. And, if I was to tell them about it, they might suspect I am a loon just for mentioning the basic facts.

It is not a thing in the general public, except for people who have chosen to pay attention. Everybody else is raising families, etc.

So, we can have all the youtubes in the world. All the HLN interviews in the world. The occasional GMA slot. Etc. None of that is real publicity IMO. Not if it doesn't get out to the geeral public.

Of course, I realize that all of the air in every news cycle every day is being sucked out by one Individual. But, still......

 

[sunshineray]

I recall, very recently reading about technology involving composite sketches of people, made using only their voice.
They seem to be amazingly accurate.
Now, I'm not able to find this info anywhere.

Was this it?

In the AI era, your voice could give away your face

Oops, Johanna come lately

 

[FinePrint]

OK. You are the second of two responses. Thanks.

However, I can tell you that exactly zero people who I know or who I interact with on personal business in my retirement, or who I am related to out here in Pennsylvania know even one thing about this case. Even one thing. And, if I was to tell them about it, they might suspect I am a loon just for mentioning the basic facts.

It is not a thing in the general public, except for people who have chosen to pay attention. Everybody else is raising families, etc.

So, we can have all the youtubes in the world. All the HLN interviews in the world. The occasional GMA slot. Etc. None of that is real publicity IMO. Not if it doesn't get out to the geeral public.

Of course, I realize that all of the air in every news cycle every day is being sucked out by one Individual. But, still......

We speak freely here on the thread about our theories and our scenarios about this case. Here we are among folks with a similar interest.

Last weekend I was out to diner at a really nice restaurant just north of Indy, not far from Delphi. I got into a one on one conversation with a friend at the table and asked if they knew about the Delphi murders. She said she was aware of it. When I got into some details about the case I saw a very glazed look come over her face... I backed off and changed the subject to something more "nice". Guess I said too much or freaked her out but its not like I was talking about a case from a far away place!!

Guess I'll keep my Delphi conversation here! Glad for WS!

 

[tresir2012]

Who is CE then?

He's not a POI in this case so we shouldn't be discussing him at all. He has been arrested and charged for another Indiana crime.

 

[sunshineray]

OK. You are the second of two responses. Thanks.

However, I can tell you that exactly zero people who I know or who I interact with on personal business in my retirement, or who I am related to out here in Pennsylvania know even one thing about this case. Even one thing. And, if I was to tell them about it, they might suspect I am a loon just for mentioning the basic facts.

It is not a thing in the general public, except for people who have chosen to pay attention. Everybody else is raising families, etc.

So, we can have all the youtubes in the world. All the HLN interviews in the world. The occasional GMA slot. Etc. None of that is real publicity IMO. Not if it doesn't get out to the geeral public.

Of course, I realize that all of the air in every news cycle every day is being sucked out by one Individual. But, still......

I haven't had one person who I mentioned it to around here know of the case, in southern CT, but then most people I'm asking don't do SnapChat.

 

[tresir2012]

Wow. I looked into it and here is one article about it. Looks new and not refined yet.

In the AI era, your voice could give away your face

Oh poor Daniel Craig came out looking rough. Still, clever though.

 

[sunshineray]

Very interested in FSG seeing possible suspect at 2.52 at meeting place (there was some crime scene tape near there) and wonder who saw the suspect at Freedom Bridge at 3.02. That could mean the murders were over by 2.45 or so. Unless they mistook someone else for the suspect.

TYVM for posting this. Could you add it to the media thread as we will shortly be going to a new thread?

Maybe that other witness was that guy I posted the article about who said he was working very close to the scene that day and told LE info he hoped would be useful, BH.

 

[HockeyMom330]

So the older perp is not the perp. Why did he not come forward if he was innocent is what I wonder.

As to LE mistakes,yes I think they made a mistake not declaring an Amber alert, in the first place and secondly calling of the search leaving volunteers tramping around a crime scene. Thirdly, waiting two years to release one more word and the video and fourth, the sketch fiasco, whatever has happened there was obviously a mistake. Fifth, the hitchhiker/duffe bag info and last, the VOI they did not announce for more than two years.
As for the twist- they have a lot of video and audio but are only giving out a bit every two years.

BBM

He would be reluctant to come forward because of his criminal background, and possibly because he had no good reason to be in Delphi/at the bridge that day. Admitting he was there (maybe also trolling for a victim or for drug related activity) puts him at the scene of the crime and makes him a prime suspect with no alibi.

There is a strict criteria which must be met before an Amber Alert can be issued. The girls situation did not qualify because an abduction had not been confirmed and there was no description (at that point) of the abductor and/or vehicle involved. In hindsight it is obviously too bad that the family didn't contact LE right at 3:30pm instead of waiting until 5:30pm as roadblocks set up at that point may have trapped the perp in the area.

 

[tresir2012]

Maybe that other witness was that guy I posted the article about who said he was working very close to the scene that day and told LE info he hoped would be useful, BH.

I wondered where he could have been working because he does not live near there. But, it could be I suppose.

(He is mentioned in many MSM articles and is the guy who mails flyers out all over the country with the Ebay items he sells. )

 

[Theforeigner]

Very interested in FSG seeing possible suspect at 2.52 at meeting place (there was some crime scene tape near there) and wonder who saw the suspect at Freedom Bridge at 3.02. That could mean the murders were over by 2.45 or so. Unless they mistook someone else for the suspect.

TYVM for posting this. Could you add it to the media thread as we will shortly be going to a new thread?

I have posted the TIMELINE in the MEDIA, MAPS, TIMELINES thread,
it is at page 39 #768

IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

 

[tresir2012]

BBM

He would be reluctant to come forward because of his criminal background, and possibly because he had no good reason to be in Delphi/at the bridge that day. Admitting he was there (maybe also trolling for a victim or for drug related activity) puts him at the scene of the crime and makes him a prime suspect with no alibi.

There is a strict criteria which must be met before an Amber Alert can be issued. The girls situation did not qualify because an abduction had not been confirmed and there was no description (at that point) of the abductor and/or vehicle involved. In hindsight it is obviously too bad that the family didn't contact LE right at 3:30pm instead of waiting until 5:30pm as roadblocks set up at that point may have trapped the perp in the area.

There's nothing to indicate a second perp was there AFAICS.

This shows criteria for an Amber alert. It is clear that they could/should have called it IMO. They may have then had access to thermal imaging helicopters or other such assistance.

Amber Alert: Broadcast Guidelines

What is a “Qualifying Abduction?”

1. The child must be under 18 years of age.
2. The child must be believed to be abducted, and in danger of serious bodily harm or death.
3. There must be enough descriptive information to believe the broadcast will help.
4. Request must be recommended by the law enforcement agency of jurisdiction.

That is all that was needed to call it.

ETA, even if they had called the police asap then by the looks of the time BG was likely seen at Freedom Bridge, the girls were already dead and he was getting away, so it wouldn't have helped anyway it seems.

 

[Boxer]

Oh poor Daniel Craig came out looking rough. Still, clever though.

Daniel Craig does look too heavy, but the necks on all their subjects are weirdly thick. Thin the neck to normal proportions and MOO the sketches are pretty good.

 

[tresir2012]

I have posted the TIMELINE in the MEDIA, MAPS, TIMELINES thread,
it is at page 39 #768

IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

Many thanks. I'm sure your timeline will help answer many questions in the next thread.

 

[sunshineray]

There's nothing to indicate a second perp was there AFAICS.

This shows criteria for an Amber alert. It is clear that they could/should have called it IMO. They may have then had access to thermal imaging helicopters or other such assistance.

Amber Alert: Broadcast Guidelines

What is a “Qualifying Abduction?”

1. The child must be under 18 years of age.
2. The child must be believed to be abducted, and in danger of serious bodily harm or death.
3. There must be enough descriptive information to believe the broadcast will help.
4. Request must be recommended by the law enforcement agency of jurisdiction.

That is all that was needed to call it.

ETA, even if they had called the police asap then by the looks of the time BG was likely seen at Freedom Bridge, the girls were already dead and he was getting away, so it wouldn't have helped anyway it seems.

It really should have been called, IMO. No matter what LE was getting from family about where they could possibly be, just the phone going straight to voicemail after the person the girls knew was picking them up called them. AJMO

 

[Jazzy5980]

I am thinking of FSG and CE the two you mentioned as the only ones we have heard mentioned. Assuming FSG went across the bridge and back would maybe add another 10 minutes to his timeframe so we can estimate him on the bridge between about 3.00 till 3.09 so would have missed BG by about 1/2 hour or so. MOO.

Coming back after being away. I’m sorry but who are FSG and CE? Not found in WS Lingo. Thanks!

 

[tresir2012]

Coming back after being away. I’m sorry but who are FSG and CE? Not found in WS Lingo. Thanks!

If you look at the timeline item just mentioned by the foreigner, you will see some links in which these people are mentioned. They are witnesses who saw BG on the trails.
FSG Flannel shirt guy (no name) and CE is named in a heavy.com article already linked up thread.

 

[tresir2012]

Right. I have always believed...always been told....that it is a fool's errand to try to solve a crime without knowing anything about the scene of the crime. But, we carry on.

And never solve it as we approach thread 109. LE have it under control.
Fingers crossed.

 

[Jazzy5980]

If you look at the timeline item just mentioned by the foreigner, you will see some links in which these people are mentioned. They are witnesses who saw BG on the trails.
FSG Flannel shirt guy (no name) and CE is named in a heavy.com article already linked up thread.

Thanks!